CDC Ruining Cruising in the US

[clo]

16 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

Everyone has their own comfort level with the information they (voluntarily or involuntarily) disclose.  I respect that some may not care if their whole lives are in the cloud.  I'm not one of them.

 

And I respect your viewpoint also. Since I'm in my mid70s there's little that I care if anyone knows, financial stuff aside. And, knock wood, so far we've been lucky. Occasional fraudulent use of a credit card that the bank  seems to catch almost immediately.

[clo]

8 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Comparing airline travel and cruise travel in the midst of a pandemic makes no sense.

And for the life of me I don't understand why people continue to compare them. And, yes, it's seeming like we're still and again in the "midst of a pandemic."

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

I have no reason to 'slip anything by you.'  If my offering advice to @Aloha 1 to trust but verify appeared to you as my slipping one past you, then your interpretation of that was just as flawed as your interpretation of the study.  How is it slipping something past someone when it is a post in an open source platform for the world to see?  As an aside, why did you choose to omit the Results section of the abstract in your prior post?

 

The opening sentence of your post was "It's always refreshing to go beyond the cherry picking that goes on in certain peoples posts."

That is grossly offensive. If you have a problem or disagreement with something I've posted then address that problem or disagreement to me so we can discuss it like adults. Don't ever refer to me with a statement to a third party referring to me as "certain people". When I have an issue with something you've said I address it to you, not make some snide remark to someone else.

 

Beyond that I'm not wasting my time trying to explain to you why your analysis of how you reach the conclusions from the results as cited in the abstract is wrong.

 

I'm making no statement about whether the paper's analysis is right or wrong because I don't have access to the full paper nor the underlying data. The CDC's statistician might be right and the paper's authors wrong. That was never the issue. You've lost sight of the real issue I was addressing...the accusation that this a politically motivated "hit job" from Yahoo News. All Yahoo News did was pick up what was stated by the paper's authors. Maybe the authors need a lessen in writing skills if now the lead researcher is claiming he was misquoted because clearly he wasn't.

 

All I have to say beyond that is that I posted every word of the "Conclusions" paragraph so I didn't "cherry pick" anything. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by njhorseman

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

This was a very good post and was also informative.  I trust my post to you was understood to be positive as it indicated some movement toward test cruises.  I was glad to see that CDC was incorporating vaccinated crew and port workers into the requirements.  Have a Happy Easter! 

I understood your post, and it is a positive step, just one that I feel should have been accomplished by the cruise lines months ago.

[pinotlover]

22 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Have you looked at our debt??

We are trillions of dollars  in debt thanks to  boy wonder & his cronies

The mere fact that Canada can borrow trillions is proof it’s a rich country. Poor people, like poor countries, have trouble getting anyone to loan them money or buy their debt.

[ORV]

Concerning all these privacy issues. What are you worried about? Seems like a lot of unnecessary paranoia. If you aren't doing anything wrong there are no problems. I don't care who knows where I am. I'm not really worried about identity theft. I keep our credit reports frozen. These companies know all about us anyway. You folks are only fooling yourself if you think you're keeping your information private. 

[Sea42]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:37 PM, Incognito1 said:

That's what VPNs are for.  And prepaid debit cards for ordering online.  And throwaway, secure emails for information queries, Alpha Keepers for my credit cards.  Yeah, I'm that one who drives with the visor down whenever I'm in a camera-heavy area.

 

Everyone has their own comfort level with the information they (voluntarily or involuntarily) disclose.  I respect that some may not care if their whole lives are in the cloud.  I'm not one of them.

 

Daniel, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with a Faraday pouch!

 

 

That's all well and good on your end but does nothing to protect the information others have stored about you. They may be hacked or sell the information they have. Your prepaid debt card was bought by you or issued from your bank. The info you send over a VPN goes somewhere and has whatever details you provide. You may have your visor down but the cameras see your license plate, know who your car is registered to and that leads to your driver's license photo.

Doctors and hospitals sell our aggregate data (not naming individuals) yet data mining companies may have enough other information to be able to figure out identities. From Time:

https://time.com/4588104/medical-data-industry/

At the same time, the secondary market in information unrelated to a patient’s direct treatment poses growing risks, privacy experts say. That’s because clues in anonymized patient dossiers make it possible for outsiders to determine your identity, especially as computing power advances in the future. Researchers have already re-identified people from anonymized profiles from hospital exit records, lists of Netflix customers, AOL online searchers, even GPS data of New York City taxi rides.

 

We can take all the precautions that are advised on our end but the records of our actions are numerous. I do what I can to protect my financial interests but most of it is out of my hands.

[Shawnino]

4 hours ago, Sea42 said:

[...]

 

We can take all the precautions that are advised on our end but the records of our actions are numerous. I do what I can to protect my financial interests but most of it is out of my hands.

 

Fair comment, all of it, but one still has to try.

[clo]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:15 AM, Daniel A said:

There really needs to be a better (more truthful) way of reporting the status of the pandemic.

Why? What purpose would it serve?

[jgsc]

Interesting thread.  Is there going to be any commentary on NCL's letter to the CDC?  The ball is back in their court after the feeble attempt to complicate the restart of cruising even more.  I for one fully support NCL's vaccination requirement if that is what it is going to take in the near future.

[Erndog72]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:59 AM, DeanoNorthPerth said:

If you are indeed contemplating suicide I implore you to get professional help.

If you are indeed that scared to live a normal life I implore you to get professional help.

[Erndog72]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:10 AM, hmorrow said:

We are only getting it, so we can cruise.....(don't really want it)

We also only got it so we can cruise. As for freedom, this country has been weening us off of that for decades by dangling "social benefits" in front of us at freedom's expense. This is not intended to be a political response.

[DeanoNorthPerth]

2 hours ago, Erndog72 said:

If you are indeed that scared to live a normal life I implore you to get professional help.

I wasn’t being flippant. I have had experience of suicide close to me and so take seriously any hint someone is in trouble or even slightly contemplating such a step. Anyway I’m glad you are well.

 

BTW, I live in Australia so my life is more “normal” than in most other countries. We are very lucky.

[marylovestotravel]

1 hour ago, DeanoNorthPerth said:

BTW, I live in Australia so my life is more “normal” than in most other countries. We are very lucky.

 

We are seriously envious! I'm in need of grandson hugs!!!

 

We are starting a 3rd wave and the number of infections are getting to an all time high in BC.

 

Mia

[LHT28]

12 minutes ago, marylovestotravel said:

 

We are seriously envious! I'm in need of grandson hugs!!!

 

We are starting a 3rd wave and the number of infections are getting to an all time high in BC.

 

Mia

Ontario  also

3000+ per day

[clo]

4 hours ago, Erndog72 said:

We also only got it so we can cruise.

Just to be clear, is that the only travel you do?

[marylovestotravel]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Ontario  also

3000+ per day

 

Yes, we've been seeing the numbers go up with Ontario as well. Very alarming as now we have more virulent and deadly variants in the mix. Unfortunately the politicians didn't have the moral fibre to deal with the necessary levels of lockdown. Especially when you contrast Australia and New Zealand who dealt with it very harshly - no ifs or buts. But when you get this waffling, of course people will not buy into the reasons why life has to be like this for now. It is a war and we need to treat it seriously.

 

Now did I just offend a lot of people?

 

Mia

[ORV]

15 hours ago, Erndog72 said:

We also only got it so we can cruise. As for freedom, this country has been weening us off of that for decades by dangling "social benefits" in front of us at freedom's expense. This is not intended to be a political response.

Not intended to be a political response? You funny guy. 

[Tranquility Base]

CDC has said US cruises may restart by mid summer with restrictions.

 

Source: Bloomberg.

[njhorseman]

18 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

CDC has said US cruises may restart by mid summer with restrictions.

 

Source: Bloomberg.

I think your interpretation is somewhat misleading. The CDC has not backed off the plans outlined in the CSO months ago. The CDC's exact statement published in the Bloomberg article says (bold typeface is mine, for emphasis):

“CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry and seaport partners to resume cruising following the phased approach outlined in the conditional sailing order,” CDC spokeswoman Jade Fulce said in a response to questions about Carnival. “This goal aligns with the desire to resume passenger operations in the United States expressed by many major cruise ship operators and travelers; hopefully, by mid-summer with restricted revenue sailings.”

 

[john2003]

23 hours ago, marylovestotravel said:

 

Yes, we've been seeing the numbers go up with Ontario as well. Very alarming as now we have more virulent and deadly variants in the mix. Unfortunately the politicians didn't have the moral fibre to deal with the necessary levels of lockdown. Especially when you contrast Australia and New Zealand who dealt with it very harshly - no ifs or buts. But when you get this waffling, of course people will not buy into the reasons why life has to be like this for now. It is a war and we need to treat it seriously.

 

Now did I just offend a lot of people?

 

Mia

I understand where you are coming from. Vancouver Island did very well until the current escalation. I also have respect for most of what Australia and NZ have accomplished. Not how the former has stranded their residents abroad. I think this was inappropriate. Test and quarantine but not abandon.

That said we are a different beast. We have interconnected, sometimes integrated economies with an extensive land border. We could have done better but could never realistically have matched Australia and New Zealand.

[marylovestotravel]

8 minutes ago, john2003 said:

I understand where you are coming from. Vancouver Island did very well until the current escalation. I also have respect for most of what Australia and NZ have accomplished. Not how the former has stranded their residents abroad. I think this was inappropriate. Test and quarantine but not abandon.

That said we are a different beast. We have interconnected, sometimes integrated economies with an extensive land border. We could have done better but could never realistically have matched Australia and New Zealand.

 

I get what you are saying, though the "Atlantic bubble" seems to be having some success. In hindsight, perhaps more restrictions on travel, especially non essential travel. I felt particularly betrayed by members of our leadership, some who lied to us, who took holidays in December, at a time that we could not see our families for Christmas.

 

Mia

[Incognito1]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:06 AM, ORV said:

Concerning all these privacy issues. What are you worried about? Seems like a lot of unnecessary paranoia. If you aren't doing anything wrong there are no problems. I don't care who knows where I am. I'm not really worried about identity theft. I keep our credit reports frozen. These companies know all about us anyway. You folks are only fooling yourself if you think you're keeping your information private. 

I disagree with that premise.  The point is that it's no one's business unless they're given permission.  It's okay that you don't care.  I do. It's prudence, not paranoia.   But maybe I have more to lose.  

[Paulchili]

13 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

I disagree with that premise.  The point is that it's no one's business unless they're given permission.  It's okay that you don't care.  I do. It's prudence, not paranoia.   But maybe I have more to lose.  

I am not sure what you are worried about - after all, you are already Incognito 😃

[1985rz1]

2 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

I disagree with that premise.  The point is that it's no one's business unless they're given permission.  It's okay that you don't care.  I do. It's prudence, not paranoia.   But maybe I have more to lose.  

I vote on that it's more paranoia than prudence, but that's JMO.