Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

[Florida_gal_50]

Just now, SumoCitrus said:

 

There are definitely some destinations where countries require vaccines for entry. I just don't go to those places. My point was that I have been able to cruise freely for years without providing medical data to the cruise line or having an injection.

 

How will it end? Well, the Spanish Flu ended without a vaccine. How did that happen? Probably a combination of deaths, acquired immunity, mitigation, and virus mutation. That is the likely outcome here. The virus burns itself out. Is there something that makes you think COVID will last forever?

Because the Spanish flu killed so many people.  Do we need to see a repeat of that?  I'm not willing to live with this any longer to see if it will burn itself out.

[mtnlvr53]

5 hours ago, jeynon said:

You all are living in altered reality, false sense of security by getting an experimental vaccine that you and others will no longer be able to become infected or transmit the virus to anyone else. Fauci and the CDC already acknowledge that, although the "chances" are low, it does not ensure 100% prevention of spread of infection.  The mRNA drug producers acknowledge their products will require continued "boosters", and most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public. . If in fact the vaccine is effective and masks prevent the spread of the virus, then a reasonable person should no longer be living in a state of fear and apprehension!

I believe your statement has many partial truths. I follow a number of the vaccine developers and/or immunologists (Not Dr. Fauci) who indicate that there are many stories that are downright wrong out there. One of the reasons that the boosters are likely necessary are that we have not reached herd immunity and we have people who have not agreed to follow protocols of wearing masks and staying out of risky situations. Each new infection raises the possibility of a new variant that MAY be less controlled by the vaccine. 

The mask wearers who have gotten Covid are not because the masks don't assist in keeping people safer (not safe, safer) but partially because they may be around people who do not wear masks. The point of masks is to keep those around you safer, not you safer. The studies have also indicated that although the Covid mask wearers SAY they wear masks, the reality is that there is always a certain amount of poor "record keeping" by those infected eg they usually wear masks but they eat out and take off their masks to eat, drink, socialize. I know of one church whose pastor told them they had to wear their masks until they got inside but could take them off once seated (absolutely wrong and the community became a hotspot for the state) 

Although I am for Chicago getting vaccines that it needs, I am TIRED of being "down south" and being disrespected by the Chicago Times and other "Northern" news sources.  We have several vaccine clinics each week and although they are no longer completely full in 15 minutes, they are still mostly full. Now that we have vaccinated much of our senior population, they need to stop having the clinics in the middle of the week during work hours and move them to the weekends to be more convenient for those who work. Then, more 16-64 year olds will be able to get the vaccine that they need. 

We could argue about this forever, but I would suggest that rather than listening to the "news", conservative or main stream, that each person actually follow people who are in the trenches for their news about how the vaccines are working and how masks are effective and how the number of serious side effects of the vaccine (which are horrible to those affected) are minimal compared to the risk of the disease. 

Off my soapbox and here is to hoping for happy sailing, travelling soon! ✈️🛳️🌎

Edited April 21, 2021 by mtnlvr53

[harkinmr]

19 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

I'm sorry but the "protect others" (or alternatively, "protect grandma") is a red herring. Always has been. It's a ploy to guilt people into compliance. It is terribly flawed:

 

• Where do you draw the line? What else should I do to "protect others" ? Not drive? Give up my guns? Not speak?
• Again (and again and again) going back to vaccine effectiveness. If the vaccines are so safe and effective, and you have the doses, why must I do anything at all to protect you? Your vaccine will protect you. The protect others bit, during this post-vaccine time, is a tacit admission that people doubt the vaccine's safety and/or effectiveness.

I whole-heartedly disagree with you concerning our obligation to protect others.  We all have an obligation to do everything safely, and yes, that includes driving and owning a gun.  We are never free to act however we like.  

 

The rest of your remarks on the safety and effectiveness are just rubbish.  Won't even give them the benefit of a response.  Posters here have repeatedly answered your question, including me.  You obviously don't like the answer, so you just keep asking the same question.

Edited April 21, 2021 by harkinmr

[SumoCitrus]

Just now, harkinmr said:

We are never free to act however we like.

 

Never suggested that. I asked where we draw the line. You didn't answer.

 

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

The rest of your remarks on the safety and effectiveness are just rubbish. Won't even give them the benefit of a response.

 

No one will respond. Again, tacit admission they have little confidence in the vaccine they took. I have more confidence in it and I didn't even take it!

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

Never suggested that. I asked where we draw the line. You didn't answer.

 

 

No one will respond. Again, tacit admission they have little confidence in the vaccine they took. I have more confidence in it and I didn't even take it!

I did answer.  And I responded to your assertion that protection of others does not impact you driving a car or owning a gun.  It does.  It also impacts your freedom of speech; for example, you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

 

Everyone has responded to your question about confidence in vaccines.  Again, you just don't like the answer.  That's your problem, not ours.

[kazu]

43 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

FWIW, I never received a yellow fever vaccine and I have traveled internationally and been on several HAL cruises. I've also never been to a place that requires a flu vaccine.

 

Just because you have travelled internationally (as have we) doesn’t mean you have visited places that require the Yellow Fever Vaccine.  That’s kind of a meaningless statement unless you have been to a place where it is required to enter.  It’s not required everywhere.  

Obviously you have never been to any of these countries that require PROOF of Yellow Fever Vaccination.

 

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of Congo, French Guiana, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Togo

 

It is also recommended for some rural, jungle spots in South America.  We’ve been to South America and did not get it nor need it to board as we weren’t visiting those spots.

Trust me, if you are going to the places I listed and you do not have the proof, you will be denied boarding on a cruise ship and entry into the country.

 

I suspect many countries will require proof when they open their borders.  Time will tell.

 

 

[mtnlvr53]

9 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Obviously you have never been to any of these countries that require PROOF of Yellow Fever Vaccination.

 

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of Congo, French Guiana, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Togo

 

It is also recommended for some rural, jungle spots in South America.  We’ve been to South America and did not get it nor need it to board as we weren’t visiting those spots.

Trust me, if you are going to the places I listed and you do not have the proof, you will be denied boarding on a cruise ship and entry into the country.

 

I suspect many countries will require proof when they open their borders.  Time will tell.

 

 

We got "held over" due to a plane malfunction in Ghana. Oh, my goodness, we didn't have the yellow fever vaccination because we did not intend to get off the plane in Ghana. South African Air had other ideas. The armed guards and the passport people were NOT happy with us at all, we were questioned extensively about where we were going, why we were there, etc. We didn't know what they were going to do with us in a situation where we were in a country that required vaccination that we didn't have without ever even meaning to be there and in a situation out of our control.  I hate to imagine how they would have treated us if we had gone there intentionally without a vaccine card.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by mtnlvr53

[AncientWanderer]

A really good point is being made here, @SumoCitrus, that you might want to think about, if some of these more exotic destinations are "on your radar."  I very badly want to go to Africa, but will never be able to do that, as I'm too old to safely receive the yellow fever vaccine.  (As I recall, age 60 is the cutoff.)  Not sure how old you are, but you might think about that one while you still can.  I really wish I'd received that vaccine before.

 

I expect there will be a lot of travel barriers for those without the covid vaccine, too.  

[mtnlvr53]

As a "back to topic" post: I talked to HA agent who says that they have not made a decision on vaccination requirements for their line. They tell me that I will be told via email once their decision is complete. 

[mtnlvr53]

5 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

A really good point is being made here, @SumoCitrus, that you might want to think about, if some of these more exotic destinations are "on your radar."  I very badly want to go to Africa, but will never be able to do that, as I'm too old to safely receive the yellow fever vaccine.  (As I recall, age 60 is the cutoff.)  Not sure how old you are, but you might think about that one while you still can.  I really wish I'd received that vaccine before.

 

I expect there will be a lot of travel barriers for those without the covid vaccine, too.  

You can go to South Africa (if they get the virus under control). Beautiful country, great wines and outstanding safaris and customer service.

[Laminator]

1 minute ago, mtnlvr53 said:

As a "back to topic" post: I talked to HA agent who says that they have not made a decision on vaccination requirements for their line. They tell me that I will be told via email once their decision is complete. 

I see a scenario where vaccines may be required on HAL but not on Carnival. There is still plenty of time for this is to play out. Let's wait and see what they do. 

[Daniel A]

I get it.  Some of these posters do not want to get the vaccine and still want to get on a cruise ship with me.  That's just not going to happen.  If you're on a cruise ship and unvaccinated then I won't be on that ship.  Nothing personal, just me looking out for #1.  Enjoy your next cruise whenever you get one.

[idiebabe]

12 minutes ago, mtnlvr53 said:

As a "back to topic" post: I talked to HA agent who says that they have not made a decision on vaccination requirements for their line. They tell me that I will be told via email once their decision is complete. 

My PCC told me the same on Monday.  Seth Wayne has also said that there has not been a decision made yet.

 

Also, topic related!  If anyone would like to get a Holland America Face Mask they have two types for sale in the Holland America Shop.  I would think these will be sold in the Gift Shop Onboard, too.  (I hope this doesn't start a discussion on what is and what's not the "proper" Face Mask to wear for protection!  😂)

[SumoCitrus]

33 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

A really good point is being made here, @SumoCitrus, that you might want to think about, if some of these more exotic destinations are "on your radar."  I very badly want to go to Africa, but will never be able to do that, as I'm too old to safely receive the yellow fever vaccine.  (As I recall, age 60 is the cutoff.)  Not sure how old you are, but you might think about that one while you still can.  I really wish I'd received that vaccine before.

 

I expect there will be a lot of travel barriers for those without the covid vaccine, too.  

 

I'm glad you mentioned this. I had no idea about the age cutoff for the yellow fever vaccine. Africa is on my radar - so is India.

[sfocruiser]

22 minutes ago, Laminator said:

I see a scenario where vaccines may be required on HAL but not on Carnival. There is still plenty of time for this is to play out. Let's wait and see what they do. 

yea  Maybe Mr. Donald slipped up and was really talking specifically about Carnival Cruise Line.    As Seabourn, P&O, Princess(UK), Cunard(UK) are all requiring 100% vaccination during their limited re-start

[POA1]

1 hour ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

I couldn't find anything that said those were human trials. I just assumed it was animal testing.

Zika and Ebola had small scale human testing. Researchers were originally hopeful that mRNA vaccines would work against cancers, but that did not work out.

 

The Zika trial info can be found in this easy-reading 19 page abstract from the NIH.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7349928/

[SumoCitrus]

24 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

If you're on a cruise ship and unvaccinated then I won't be on that ship.

 

Have you thought about what you will do about (i) people who fake their vaccine cards; and/or (ii) people who are vaccinated but still get/spread COVID?

 

27 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Nothing personal, just me looking out for #1

 

Same.

[ontheweb]

45 minutes ago, Laminator said:

I see a scenario where vaccines may be required on HAL but not on Carnival. There is still plenty of time for this is to play out. Let's wait and see what they do. 

That is definitely implied in the statement about vaccine requirements.

[Cruise NH]

15 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

I'm glad you mentioned this. I had no idea about the age cutoff for the yellow fever vaccine. Africa is on my radar - so is India.

i don’t believe the age 60 remark is accurate.  I think it’s not advised for people over 65 unless it’s absolutely necessary but anyone could get it.  When we went to SA we were both over 60 and could have gotten it but after seeing our itinerary and doing some research our doctor advised against it and gave us an exemption letter to take instead.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Talk about thread drift...  If this keeps up, the moderator will lock this thread.  May I humbly suggest starting a new thread specifically about vaccine hesitancy?

 

I'm not trying to be an amateur moderator but I am interested on other people's take on how the Carnival CEO's comments will affect HA cruises in the future.  I just don't want to see this thread get locked.

 

Thanks for understanding.

If it were not for vaccine hesitancy, would there even need to be a thread about fully vaccinated or not fully vaccinated cruises? Therefore I think the question of the extent of vaccine hesitancy is fully on topic. JMHO.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, Mosaic said:

This thread needs shut down and some of the regular posters here should realize this is a forum about cruising.

This is a forum about cruising, but Holland America is not cruising anywhere at this time.  And check out the title of the thread...😉

 

Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

•  

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, Cruise NH said:

i don’t believe the age 60 remark is accurate.  I think it’s not advised for people over 65 unless it’s absolutely necessary but anyone could get it.  When we went to SA we were both over 60 and could have gotten it but after seeing our itinerary and doing some research our doctor advised against it and gave us an exemption letter to take instead.

 

There was a story in the news a year or so ago about a British physician who was in the cautioned age group, had the vaccination anyway in order to go do medical work in Africa, and he actually died from the vaccine.  So it is something to take seriously.  I won't get into discussion about what the age recommendations are, as I don't specifically recall and that's really a discussion to have with one's physician.

[harkinmr]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If it were not for vaccine hesitancy, would there even need to be a thread about fully vaccinated or not fully vaccinated cruises? Therefore I think the question of the extent of vaccine hesitancy is fully on topic. JMHO.

I agree.  Unfortunately, any thread concerning a vaccine requirement for sailing is naturally going to end up delving into a discussion of the vaccine itself and vaccine hesitancy.

[Tampa Girl]

25 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

This is a forum about cruising, but Holland America is not cruising anywhere at this time.  And check out the title of the thread...😉

 

Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

•  

 

Thank you for pointing that out.  I never could understand the initial complaint to which you responded.

[Tampa Girl]

2 hours ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

There are definitely some destinations where countries require vaccines for entry. I just don't go to those places. My point was that I have been able to cruise freely for years without providing medical data to the cruise line or having an injection.

 

How will it end? Well, the Spanish Flu ended without a vaccine. How did that happen? Probably a combination of deaths, acquired immunity, mitigation, and virus mutation. That is the likely outcome here. The virus burns itself out. Is there something that makes you think COVID will last forever?

 

From Google:  "Coronavirus is an entire family of viruses, which like the flu, mainly spreads through respiratory droplets. Four of these viruses are similar to the common cold in terms of symptoms and severity. The novel coronavirus, or SARS-CoV-2, is a potentially deadly virus that can lead to COVID-19.Oct 7, 2020:"

 

Neither the cold nor the flu have burned themselves out.