Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The best way to test your hypothesis is to check the facts. It is likely that rural areas are vax slower than suburban and urban areas. The null hypothesis is that some other factors are at work. Education and income?

 

Connecticut (population 3.5m) is at the top of % vaccinated. The state's biggest cities are just 100k in size. However, “it has the highest per-capita income, second-highest level of human development behind Massachusetts, and highest median household income in the United States”, according to wiki.

 

The key question is whether the rural areas will catch up? You have to present a graph of the rural states showing that the pace of vax is still accelerating, or at least plateau.

 

What about the experiences in your state of TX?

 

If you click through the STATE link I have provided that full analysis is there.  Just click.  I am familiar geographically with each of these states so I was easily able to say rural versus urban

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[Mary229]

@HappyInVan

 

As to Texas, I mentioned in an earlier post that the state noted the rural distribution problem and at a high cost sent out roving teams to vaccinate homebound rural residents and provide mobile vaccination hubs.  We have counties that are 85% fully vaccinated because of that effort.  There are always a percentage of people, especially in the mature population that cannot take a vaccine due to health/medical issues.  You will never have 100%

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, jeynon said:

The mRNA drug producers acknowledge . . .  most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. 

 

23 minutes ago, jeynon said:

Who's credible?  Do just a little digging for research on your own, and stop listening to Fauci and CNN!!   https://www.aier.org/article/masking-a-careful-review-of-the-evidence

mRNA vaccines may provide lower immunity to new SARS-CoV-2 ...

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/mrna...

A quote from the very article you cited:  "There is no clinical trial data on how the mRNA vaccines fare up against the new variants."

 

I stand by my earlier post.  You are not posting truth.

[Himself]

4 minutes ago, jeynon said:

Stop listening to Fauci and CNN and start doing your own research if you want "credible".  Fauci published in 2005 Virology Journal that Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread. But that does not fit the narrative today when he has become Gates medical whore.  He also stated early on in the "pandemic" that masks would be ineffective. He was speaking the truth back then, as UCLA school of medicine department of virology 2005 came to the same conclusion after extensive testing and research that anything other than a N95 respirator would be ineffective in preventing the transmission of Corona Viruses!  You must have your head in sand, not being aware of the all concern with mRNA vaccines having questionable efficacy in preventing the transmission of variants!

Jeynon, you have a very minority view but one I agree with.  dr. Fauchi got quite a grueling from Jim Jordan the other day and said even with a double dose of the so called vaccine you could still catch covid.  So why the shot? When I was a junior in High School, I got the Salk Vaccine and that meant I would NOT catch Polio,  No such guarantees on this thing.  

[Laminator]

51 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I still have to piece together Wyoming but if anyone would like me to present the data for another state I will try to gather the info.

Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to represent. In the State of Indiana, where I live, specifically in the NW corner in Lake County, we opened up to 16 and above a month ago. Not only did we open to 16 and above we also opened up to anyone who lived anywhere in the US. At that time appointments could not be had for 4 weeks out. The city of Chicago recommended that those who live there drive 45 minutes to Indiana to get the shot. As of yesterday morning there were several appts open for yesterday afternoon within 10 miles of me. If you look below at the State of Indiana dashboard link you see that the vaccines administered are declining. There are also hundreds if not thousands of appointments available for the next 4 weeks across the state so I don't see an uptick any time soon in vaccinations. 
ISDH - Novel Coronavirus: Vaccine Dashboard

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, Laminator said:

Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to represent. In the State of Indiana, where I live, specifically in the NW corner in Lake County, we opened up to 16 and above a month ago. Not only did we open to 16 and above we also opened up to anyone who lived anywhere in the US. At that time appointments could not be had for 4 weeks out. The city of Chicago recommended that those who live there drive 45 minutes to Indiana to get the shot. As of yesterday morning there were several appts open for yesterday afternoon within 10 miles of me. If you look below at the State of Indiana dashboard link you see that the vaccines administered are declining. There are also hundreds if not thousands of appointments available for the next 4 weeks across the state so I don't see an uptick any time soon in vaccinations. 
ISDH - Novel Coronavirus: Vaccine Dashboard

When you first posted I assumed you were in Illinois since it was the only state you mentioned.  As to Wyoming that is a different kettle all together.  I will look at your data.  Thank you

[Laminator]

2 hours ago, jeynon said:

You all are living in altered reality, false sense of security by getting an experimental vaccine that you and others will no longer be able to become infected or transmit the virus to anyone else. Fauci and the CDC already acknowledge that, although the "chances" are low, it does not ensure 100% prevention of spread of infection.  The mRNA drug producers acknowledge their products will require continued "boosters", and most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public. . If in fact the vaccine is effective and masks prevent the spread of the virus, then a reasonable person should no longer be living in a state of fear and apprehension!

We all have the power to choose. None of us in here, specifically me in this instance, need to be admonished by anyone for their choice. But thanks for caring!

[jeynon]

26 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Could you provide links to these claims???

 

"A recent report by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington found that if 95% of Americans wore masks, almost 70,000 lives would be saved. 

N95 masks offer the best protection, but they are in short supply, and the CDC is asking people not to go out and buy them, because they are urgently needed by health care workers."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/health/coronavirus-how-to-protect-yourself-wellness/index.html

 

http://www.healthdata.org/sites/default/files/files/Projects/COVID/briefing_US_20201112.pdf

 

 

UCLA study was conducted in 2001 in response to Anthrax attacks. Conclusion of study, Surgical masks were too porous to prevent the inhalation of the spores which are larger than Corona Virus...as stated in the research.  http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/detect/antdetect_intro.html  Additional links regarding ineffectiveness of surgical and cloth masks:   https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

the New England Journal of Medicine on May 21, 2020:

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

So, one can only conclude the "science" is agenda driven and politicized to invoke a system of medical tyranny and a global agenda.  The Bible tells us that no one will be able to buy or sell without the Mark.  We have never in our lifetime seen such disregard for personal liberty and freedoms, all in the guise of our savior, big Government wants to protect us from ourselves!  

[Laminator]

3 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

When you first posted I assumed you were in Illinois since it was the only state you mentioned.  As to Wyoming that is a different kettle all together.  I will look at your data.  Thank you

I am in NW Indiana. We consider ourselves to be a suburb of Chicago. We are actually on CST as the rest of the State is on EST because of our proximity to Chicago. 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Laminator

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, Laminator said:

I am in NW Indiana. We consider ourselves to be a suburb of IL. We are actually on CST as the rest of the State is on EST because of our proximity to Chicago.

 

Ok,   I will pull together some data for you later today.  It is interesting that you mention the crossing of state lines issue.  I had not considered that which would muddy the statistical waters tremendously.  We can get our vaccine in whichever county we choose but it never occurred to me that people would cross the state lines.  I guess that would be more common out east where the state urban areas are close.  Out here I would have to drive at least 3 hours to go to another urban area.  

[Daniel A]

Talk about thread drift...  If this keeps up, the moderator will lock this thread.  May I humbly suggest starting a new thread specifically about vaccine hesitancy?

 

I'm not trying to be an amateur moderator but I am interested on other people's take on how the Carnival CEO's comments will affect HA cruises in the future.  I just don't want to see this thread get locked.

 

Thanks for understanding.

[harkinmr]

15 hours ago, jeynon said:

Totally agree with this position not requiring an experimental vaccine in order to travel. The CDC will not confirm that it will keep anyone from becoming infected, or becoming a "spreader". Masks and social distancing are still prescribed for those who have been vaccinated.  If masks are in fact effective in preventing transmission, or becoming infected by the virus, and the PCR test is in fact accurate...why the concern and demand for everyone to be vaccinated? It is a false sense of security to believe over 3000 passengers on a cruise ship who have been fully vaccinated are no longer potential spreaders.  Already mRNA gene therapy providers are admitting "booster" shots will be needed, and the vaccines may not protect anyone from variants and mutations of the Corona Virus.  Health questionnaires have been deemed satisfactory, taking passengers word that they do not knowingly have contagious diseases that are far more contagious, and have significantly higher mortality rates!  Travel involves risk. Every individual needs to decide for themselves whether the benefits out weigh the risks.  I willing take my chances with the belief that I have a 99.7 percent chance of surviving Covid 19 without taking an experimental gene therapy drug. Just say NO to vaccine passports...hey, my body my choice, Right?

The answer is very simple.  Because the cruise lines are trying to reduce the risk of an outbreak onboard, as well as the severity of that outbreak and the consequences of such (i.e., full ship quarantine and/or halting the cruise with a return to the port of origin).  A 100% vaccinated cruise ship allows them to address those issues in a much easier and less risky fashion.  Certainly easier and less risky than an unvaccinated crew and passenger cohort.

 

As to your point on health questionnaires being deemed "satisfactory", passengers have been notoriously dishonest when completing those questionnaires and have brought infectious diseases like the flu onboard and sickened passengers.  Cruise lines may want to try to get away with just the questionnaire, but they know that it generally is not trustworthy.

 

Vaccines are not "experimental gene therapy".  Please don't spread misinformation.

[Pizzasteve]

3 hours ago, jeynon said:

You all are living in altered reality, false sense of security by getting an experimental vaccine that you and others will no longer be able to become infected or transmit the virus to anyone else. Fauci and the CDC already acknowledge that, although the "chances" are low, it does not ensure 100% prevention of spread of infection.  The mRNA drug producers acknowledge their products will require continued "boosters", and most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public. . If in fact the vaccine is effective and masks prevent the spread of the virus, then a reasonable person should no longer be living in a state of fear and apprehension!

Please, I really hope you and others wilk stop saying the vaccine is experimental.  It is not experimental and that language is inflamitory. 

 

The vaccines are new vaccines, true, but that is primarily because the virus is new.  Approval was accellerated, so the FDA approval is labeled as emergency, but all proper testing protocols were used. The techniques used to make the vaccines are well understood, focused on manufacturing methods, and the delivery methods are many decades old.  My wife wrote her thesis on the methods being used on the 2 shot vaccines in 1987. 

 

All vaccines cause our immune systems to respond.  Immune systems are unique and respond to many, many things from allergens, to bacteria, to virus fragments.  In a small number of people the mix of the vaccine may have possible issues, but with millions of people and large scale clinical trials the root cause is usually something unique to a person (a rare allergic condition, or biochemical interaction). The actual impacts of a Covid case are orders of magnitude more dangerous, and almost everyone will be exposed eventually with our massive community spread, so getting vaccinated really is an essential thing.

 

That said the county is full of diabetics stuffing themselves to 300lb+ size with processed carbs and soft drinks, and many covid deaths were likely preventable, as caused by the a combination of Covid and our national fitness and obesity pandemic.

 

I pray everyone thinks carefully about their life decisions and does the best they can for themselves.  Certainly I would strongly discourage an unvaccinated person from cruising as it will be far to dangerous for them, not so dangerous for us fully vaccinated folks.  Whether the industry should allow people to knowingly put themselves in a high risk position (masks and distancing on ships will not be effective) is up to them.  They let obese diabetics overeat and drink alcohol, so it seems consistent to let people sail at their own risk.  

 

So for me, as mentioned a vaccine mandate seems impractical, but there does need to be a clear, acceptable protocol for when passengers get seriously ill with a highly contagious and serious illness like Covid19 and its varients, that does not cause portless floating quarantine prisons like we saw last year.

 

PS. Himself's post shows how some people just fundamentally dont understand vaccines, community spread and why we vaccinate.  Ignorance is only curable if the person wants the cure. Sadly, he will expect my Medicare budgeted tax dollars to fully cover the extended hospital stays of anti vaxers.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[Tennessee Titan]

9 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Talk about thread drift...  If this keeps up, the moderator will lock this thread.  May I humbly suggest starting a new thread specifically about vaccine hesitancy?

 

I'm not trying to be an amateur moderator but I am interested on other people's take on how the Carnival CEO's comments will affect HA cruises in the future.  I just don't want to see this thread get locked.

 

Thanks for understanding.

+1

 Do we really need an anti vaxer forum here?  Maybe thats what AD is all about . If he thinks that market is HAL's future, It certainly is not mine!

Edited April 21, 2021 by Tennessee Titan

[harkinmr]

36 minutes ago, Himself said:

Jeynon, you have a very minority view but one I agree with.  dr. Fauchi got quite a grueling from Jim Jordan the other day and said even with a double dose of the so called vaccine you could still catch covid.  So why the shot? When I was a junior in High School, I got the Salk Vaccine and that meant I would NOT catch Polio,  No such guarantees on this thing.  

An ill-informed, bullying and disgusting display by Mr. Jordan and so typical of his political posturing. 

[Mary229]

25 minutes ago, Laminator said:

I am in NW Indiana. We consider ourselves to be a suburb of IL. We are actually on CST as the rest of the State is on EST because of our proximity to Chicago.

 

I guess they want us to go away.  Briefly I can understand your confusion.  Indiana does not give how many vaccines were shipped to them.  Most states provide that statistic so it is easy to do a quick calculation to determine how much demand there is.  I guess we should close this up as people are upset that we delved into it this far.  

[Laminator]

14 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Ok,   I will pull together some data for you later today.  It is interesting that you mention the crossing of state lines issue.  I had not considered that which would muddy the statistical waters tremendously.  We can get our vaccine in whichever county we choose but it never occurred to me that people would cross the state lines.  I guess that would be more common out east where the state urban areas are close.  Out here I would have to drive at least 3 hours to go to another urban area.  

The Federal Govt opened up a Federal vax site in Gary. Part of the deal was IN had to open up Vax's to anyone anywhere in the States. Chicago gets their own supply from the Feds. To this day there is more demand than supply in Chicago so the State has recently begun supplementing the supply Chicago receives. I, like you, research these numbers. I only look at IN and IL however. That's all i can handle...LOL!!!

 

[SumoCitrus]

I have to say that I am pleased to read this and hope it applies to all CCL brands including HAL. I do not think it is appropriate or even legal to require a person to inject themselves with a chemical to be permitted the right to travel.

 

A few points you should consider if this is contrary to your opinion:

 

• If you are vaccinated, and the vaccine is effective enough for (i) you to take yourself; and (ii) you to encourage others to take, why should you be concerned? You are vaccinated and you should be confident that your vaccination will protect you. If you are not confident, why did you take the vaccine?
• Shared misery is not an acceptable emotion here. If your brain is thinking, "I had to take the shot(s), why doesn't everyone?" you need to adjust your thinking. People enjoy autonomy and can make decisions that are best for themselves and their bodies/health.
• You have other options to protect yourself that you have (presumably) been employing for the last year. Things like masks, distancing, handwashing, etc. Why not continue to use those?
• Clearly there are some lingering concerns about the safety of these vaccines (e.g., J&J and clots), there may be a liability issue here if companies require these vaccines and they end up being harmful, causing cancer, whatever.

If you don't want to cruise because your preferred cruise line doesn't share your opinion, that's fine, stay home. This is not a subject area where a real or threatened boycott is likely to be effective.

[Heartgrove]

2 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

If you don't want to cruise because your preferred cruise line doesn't share your opinion, that's fine, stay home. This is not a subject area where a real or threatened boycott is likely to be effective.

 

Or transfer your allegiance to one that does share your opinion. It seems a rough estimate of 75%  responders are in favor of 100% vaccine. 

[bennybear]

I listened to the US surgeon general this morning speak of the safety protocol for Pfizer and Moderna, and it’s really good.   They are examining the Johnston and Johnson one like other countries are Astra Zeneca.

 

@Himself  respectfully, the vaccine I took, is about 94% effective, IMO that is a far cry from the 0% without immunization.  

But that’s why I won’t go on a ship without a vaccine mandate,  I’ll probably be fine, but I don’t want to be on a cruise to nowhere or stuck onboard like the Diamond Princess because some choose not to vaccinate.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by bennybear

[SumoCitrus]

2 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Or transfer your allegiance to one that does share your opinion. It seems a rough estimate of 75%  responders are in favor of 100% vaccine. 

 

 

Of all the people who cruise HAL, I wonder how many are on this message board.

[Tampa Girl]

4 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

I have to say that I am pleased to read this and hope it applies to all CCL brands including HAL. I do not think it is appropriate or even legal to require a person to inject themselves with a chemical to be permitted the right to travel.

 

A few points you should consider if this is contrary to your opinion:

 

• If you are vaccinated, and the vaccine is effective enough for (i) you to take yourself; and (ii) you to encourage others to take, why should you be concerned? You are vaccinated and you should be confident that your vaccination will protect you. If you are not confident, why did you take the vaccine?
• Shared misery is not an acceptable emotion here. If your brain is thinking, "I had to take the shot(s), why doesn't everyone?" you need to adjust your thinking. People enjoy autonomy and can make decisions that are best for themselves and their bodies/health.
• You have other options to protect yourself that you have (presumably) been employing for the last year. Things like masks, distancing, handwashing, etc. Why not continue to use those?
• Clearly there are some lingering concerns about the safety of these vaccines (e.g., J&J and clots), there may be a liability issue here if companies require these vaccines and they end up being harmful, causing cancer, whatever.

If you don't want to cruise because your preferred cruise line doesn't share your opinion, that's fine, stay home. This is not a subject area where a real or threatened boycott is likely to be effective.

 

Where are you finding that Americans have a "right to travel" - other than within the U.S.?  

7 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

I have to say that I am pleased to read this and hope it applies to all CCL brands including HAL. I do not think it is appropriate or even legal to require a person to inject themselves with a chemical to be permitted the right to travel.

 

A few points you should consider if this is contrary to your opinion:

 

• If you are vaccinated, and the vaccine is effective enough for (i) you to take yourself; and (ii) you to encourage others to take, why should you be concerned? You are vaccinated and you should be confident that your vaccination will protect you. If you are not confident, why did you take the vaccine?
• Shared misery is not an acceptable emotion here. If your brain is thinking, "I had to take the shot(s), why doesn't everyone?" you need to adjust your thinking. People enjoy autonomy and can make decisions that are best for themselves and their bodies/health.
• You have other options to protect yourself that you have (presumably) been employing for the last year. Things like masks, distancing, handwashing, etc. Why not continue to use those?
• Clearly there are some lingering concerns about the safety of these vaccines (e.g., J&J and clots), there may be a liability issue here if companies require these vaccines and they end up being harmful, causing cancer, whatever.

If you don't want to cruise because your preferred cruise line doesn't share your opinion, that's fine, stay home. This is not a subject area where a real or threatened boycott is likely to be effective.

 

Exactly where do you find your "right to travel" - other than within the U.S.  Our "right" to travel internationally is a "permission" granted by the foreign country.  And if a foreign country does not want you in the country unless vaccinated, it has the absolute right to forbid you entering the country.  Like too many of my fellow Americans, personal "rights" are grossly exaggerated.

[Pizzasteve]

12 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

I have to say that I am pleased to read this and hope it applies to all CCL brands including HAL. I do not think it is appropriate or even legal to require a person to inject themselves with a chemical to be permitted the right to travel.

 

A few points you should consider if this is contrary to your opinion:

 

• If you are vaccinated, and the vaccine is effective enough for (i) you to take yourself; and (ii) you to encourage others to take, why should you be concerned? You are vaccinated and you should be confident that your vaccination will protect you. If you are not confident, why did you take the vaccine?
• Shared misery is not an acceptable emotion here. If your brain is thinking, "I had to take the shot(s), why doesn't everyone?" you need to adjust your thinking. People enjoy autonomy and can make decisions that are best for themselves and their bodies/health.
• You have other options to protect yourself that you have (presumably) been employing for the last year. Things like masks, distancing, handwashing, etc. Why not continue to use those?
• Clearly there are some lingering concerns about the safety of these vaccines (e.g., J&J and clots), there may be a liability issue here if companies require these vaccines and they end up being harmful, causing cancer, whatever.

If you don't want to cruise because your preferred cruise line doesn't share your opinion, that's fine, stay home. This is not a subject area where a real or threatened boycott is likely to be effective.

1.  Many travel destinations require vaccination as a condition for travel.  This is not a new idea and is part of a global system to keep diseases contained.  You may not appretiate it, but many would die without travel related disease control systems.  The fact that you call it injection with chemicals speaks volumes about your desire to spin doctor your fear of science or political views.  Yellow fever and other travel vaccines were never controversial, and no card meant being turned away at customs.

 

2.  A big part of the travel related rules are to prevent spead.  It has nothing to do with you getting the disease or not it is about vector control.  Like spraying mosquitos to control malaria, unvaccinated travellers are restricted because they could be asymptomatic speaders that cause shipboard or port destination outbreaks.  It seems you are so focused on personal risk that you dont get this. No one cares if you get sick, but they do care if you take disease to a place where others are not protected.

 

3.  On a ship where shared air is inevitable, masks and distancing will not be effective enough that an unvaccinated spreader will not spread to unvaccinated crew or other unvaccinated passengers.  Hence the discussion of a mandate, as vaccinated people are also prevented from being silent spreaders, while the unvaccinated are not.

 

I respect your views, but please try to see this from a pandemic control perspective and not just from your personal desire to return to cruising 'on your terms.'

Edited April 21, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[KirkNC]

3 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

 

Of all the people who cruise HAL, I wonder how many are on this message board.

Less every day

[Pizzasteve]

39 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Ok,   I will pull together some data for you later today.  It is interesting that you mention the crossing of state lines issue.  I had not considered that which would muddy the statistical waters tremendously.  We can get our vaccine in whichever county we choose but it never occurred to me that people would cross the state lines.  I guess that would be more common out east where the state urban areas are close.  Out here I would have to drive at least 3 hours to go to another urban area.  

Friends of mine drove to Nevada from California to get vaccinated.  Hard to track that I am sure, as they also just bought a home there, but maintain a CA residence.  I assume their health care provider will eventially update they records and normalize their statistics, but this must be happening a lot.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Pizzasteve