Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

[Laminator]

12 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

Are you ok with being quarantined on a ship for a month, ie., Diamond Princess, because someone refused to get vaccinated and caught the virus? Or refused entry into a foreign port?
No one wants to see that happen.

I agree with you. I don't want to be stuck in our cabin for 2 weeks while some bureaucrats figure out what to do with us.

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, Laminator said:

Springfield should have a higher vaccination rate than the surrounding counties as it is pretty much split evenly blue and red. Those surrounding counties are heavily red. 

I was referring to Jackson County.  I would also note that Jackson county is very small and at most is receiving 2000 vaccines a day.   If they cannot fill all of the slots on a given day that is hardly massive.  Those slots may not be filled due to weather, work or other local factors.  We have had quite a few days with massive drops (we are a huge area) due to weather. I think much is being said about political leanings just to create divisiveness and national maps simply do not reflect that correlation.  One major factor that may come into play, just a hypothesis, is that so called red states tend to be much more rural where the logistics of delivery are much more complicated 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[HappyInVan]

MSC is planning to restart on August 1^st with a flotilla. Ten ships. They're open to the idea of a passenger vax mandate. But, they won't guarantee that the crews will all be vaccinated.

 

This is realistic since the vax schedule for Asian crew members is uncertain.

 

Over there, the vax rate is many countries will be high, after the scare that they had. UK have now vax 50% of the population; 65% of 18+. The European cruise companies may be able to fill their ships at half or a third capacity?

 

Perhaps, Arnold Donald is being realistic. CCL (with the most ships in the industry) won't be viable if they follow the Europeans. Bearing in mind that the kids will be vax mostly in 2022. Plus the modest rate of vax in USA.

 

Check the facts here. CDC site reporting % of 18+ vaccinated. Top - NM, Connecticut and MA 60%, CA and NY mid 50%. Bottom - AL and MS 40%. FL and TX in the middle.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

 

FL is a surprise. With the larger population of seniors, I would have expected FL to be at the top?

 

With such a wide range of outcomes (vax 40-60%), there must be some vaccine hesitancy? While some states are able to match the pace in the UK, many others will not.

 

Cruising restart in the USA will be complicated. It would be unrealistic to expect the CDC to drop the Conditional Sail Order. The industry still needs to negotiate many issues; including the pace at which crews are vaccinated.

 

The easiest way to return cruising to 'normal' is to get the disease under control. HHS drops the declaration of Public Health Emergency. CDC Conditional Order lapses. Fini.

 

 

 

[Daniel A]

This web site tracks percentages of population vaccinated by state.  It also tracks the percent of doses administered versus the number of doses shipped to each state.

 

COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker: Updates on When You Will Get a Coronavirus Vaccine | TIME

 

 

[rucrazy]

5 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

web site tracks percentages of population vaccinated by state.

Thanks @Daniel A according to the tracking chart the US population is 26% fully vaccinated.... that is a good thing!

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I look at dashboards of states as people have asked me and I have not seen it with the exception of Alabama which is first a rural state with the difficulties that presents and the long memory of the Tuskegee Experiment.   All of the other “evidence” is garbage surveys. The only survey that matters to me is the vaccination distribution/vaccination allocation rate.  
 

https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study

Here's an article naming the states with the most vaccine hesitancy.

 

3 things scientists have learned about vaccine hesitancy: Analysis - ABC News (go.com)

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Here's an article naming the states with the most vaccine hesitancy.

 

3 things scientists have learned about vaccine hesitancy: Analysis - ABC News (go.com)

Thanks, I will have to do my research later and see if the data agrees with the article. My view is if 95+ Percent of the vaccines are going into arms then the hesitancy argument is premature.  What happens in social elements is there is a momentum to an upward trend, that is, the more people who are vaccinated encourages more people to be vaccinated.  Popularly called peer pressure.  I think using the hesitancy argument prematurely does more to cause hesitancy IF it does not truly exist.  

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Thanks, I will have to do my research later and see if the data agrees with the article. My view is if 95+ Percent of the vaccines are going into arms then the hesitancy argument is premature.  What happens in social elements is there is a momentum to an upward trend, that is, the more people who are vaccinated encourages more people to be vaccinated.  Popularly called peer pressure.  I think using the hesitancy argument prematurely does more to cause hesitancy IF it does not truly exist.  

Although I agree with you that peer pressure should help as people see their friends, relatives, and coworkers get their vaccinations without dire side effects, it could also work the opposite way as those who refuse the vaccines reinforce each other's beliefs.

[Mary229]

Just now, ontheweb said:

Although I agree with you that peer pressure should help as people see their friends, relatives, and coworkers get their vaccinations without dire side effects, it could also work the opposite way as those who refuse the vaccines reinforce each other's beliefs.

Actually that is what I am saying.  If you read in the newspaper that people are balking you may feel discouraged to get a vaccine.  If instead the newspaper says 95%+ vaccine is being administered it will create a sense of urgency.  I am in retail, urgency is a great motivator.  Never tell a customer that Eh, others are not buying this, so you should.  This is a problem with politicians and journalists, they do not understand consumer behavior.  But if those vaccines are not finding arms it is an entirely different issue.  Like I have said over and over, I look at states that people request and with the exception of two weeks ago in Alabama I have not seen signs of hesitancy.  I will look later at the states you pointed to.   Anyone can review the state dashboards - published by the state, with state data, updated daily.

 

That said, if there is a problem with the vaccine, like the clotting issue, that should be reported so that those who have received that vaccine will be alerted.   I am not saying hide anything, I am just saying don't go about reporting "surveys".  People will say anything anonymously, their actions are a much louder statement.  

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

That said, if there is a problem with the vaccine, like the clotting issue, that should be reported so that those who have received that vaccine will be alerted.   I am not saying hide anything, I am just saying don't go about reporting "surveys".  People will say anything anonymously, their actions are a much louder statement.  

IIRC, Dr. Fauci said the main reason for publicizing the clotting issue was to make sure medical providers know not to use a commonly used anti clotting medication as it may make the clot worse.

[Mary229]

29 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Here's an article naming the states with the most vaccine hesitancy.

 

3 things scientists have learned about vaccine hesitancy: Analysis - ABC News (go.com)

I looked at Wyoming and it is tricky.  There are multiple reporting agencies - the Reservation, the Military, the VA and they are not combining the drug store partners into the data.  They have also the same issue as Alabama, rural populations.  One thing we did in Texas is create mobile vaccine units that went out to the rural counties and even did home vaccinations, that is costly.   Old reports, very old are showing an 82ish% delivery rate across agencies but those reports date to early February.  I will keep researching. It is not straightforward.  

[jeynon]

9 hours ago, Laminator said:

I agree with you. I don't want to be stuck in our cabin for 2 weeks while some bureaucrats figure out what to do with us.

You all are living in altered reality, false sense of security by getting an experimental vaccine that you and others will no longer be able to become infected or transmit the virus to anyone else. Fauci and the CDC already acknowledge that, although the "chances" are low, it does not ensure 100% prevention of spread of infection.  The mRNA drug producers acknowledge their products will require continued "boosters", and most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public. . If in fact the vaccine is effective and masks prevent the spread of the virus, then a reasonable person should no longer be living in a state of fear and apprehension!

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, jeynon said:

The mRNA drug producers acknowledge their products will require continued "boosters", and most likely will not prevent infection from variants or mutations of the Covid 19 virus. I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public. . 

You are making some claims that are not true at all.  These assertions are so unfounded that you need to produce reliable documentation of your claims.  They are not credible.

 

You are free to say whatever you want, and we are free to not believe you.  😒 

[Mosaic]

LOL at this:   ' I will bet you that you still believe masks prevent the spread of the virus and yet the majority of the people now being infected attest to following the protocol of wearing masks in public."

 

So, Covid is a germ right?  Next time you have surgery MAKE SURE that the nurses and doctors remove their masks during your surgery...

[LSEA]

11 hours ago, TriumphGuy said:

Are you ok with being quarantined on a ship for a month, ie., Diamond Princess, because someone refused to get vaccinated and caught the virus? Or refused entry into a foreign port?
No one wants to see that happen.

Goodness no, no one wants to see that happen.  If the cruise line were to require vaccination, quarantine could still happen.   Vaccination isn't 100% effective.   Everyday there are people who have been vaccinated are testing positive.  Some have required hospitalization, some have died.  

I choose to get vaccinated because I feel the odds are in my favor.  Others feel differently and I understand that.  

 

I can't control everything, everyone, or every outcome.  I'm looking forward to cruising again.  When I invest my time and money in a cruise I accept there are no guarantees but I feel the odds are in my favor for good outcome.  If it made me feel safer I would book with a cruise line that required vaccination.

 

Perhaps I've missed this info, has the company outlined its policy and procedures for handling an outbreak?  Is it unreasonable to assume they've  learned something from all of this and have a more effective approach moving forward?  I have the same question for government and society, but that's a discussion for another forum.

 

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Actually that is what I am saying.  If you read in the newspaper that people are balking you may feel discouraged to get a vaccine.  If instead the newspaper says 95%+ vaccine is being administered it will create a sense of urgency.  I am in retail, urgency is a great motivator.  Never tell a customer that Eh, others are not buying this, so you should.  This is a problem with politicians and journalists, they do not understand consumer behavior.  But if those vaccines are not finding arms it is an entirely different issue.  Like I have said over and over, I look at states that people request and with the exception of two weeks ago in Alabama I have not seen signs of hesitancy.  I will look later at the states you pointed to.   Anyone can review the state dashboards - published by the state, with state data, updated daily.

 

That said, if there is a problem with the vaccine, like the clotting issue, that should be reported so that those who have received that vaccine will be alerted.   I am not saying hide anything, I am just saying don't go about reporting "surveys".  People will say anything anonymously, their actions are a much louder statement.  

I would agree that we have to prevent against self fulfilling prophecies. If we tell someone that the following groups are not wanting to get the vaccine and they are within that group, we just might be edging them towards the conclusion that they should not get the vaccine.

 

The various articles I have posted in response to you also seem to say that the strategy of scientists telling them what to do is counterproductive. They do not believe them, especially Dr. Fauci. Doctors and clergymen seem to be a better group to urge the usage of vaccines.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I looked at Wyoming and it is tricky.  There are multiple reporting agencies - the Reservation, the Military, the VA and they are not combining the drug store partners into the data.  They have also the same issue as Alabama, rural populations.  One thing we did in Texas is create mobile vaccine units that went out to the rural counties and even did home vaccinations, that is costly.   Old reports, very old are showing an 82ish% delivery rate across agencies but those reports date to early February.  I will keep researching. It is not straightforward.  

I look forward to reading the results of your research. Either the media is misleading us (and it would not be the first time), or you will confirm what they have been saying.

[iceman93]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

The various articles I have posted in response to you also seem to say that the strategy of scientists telling them what to do is counterproductive. They do not believe them, especially Dr. Fauci. Doctors and clergymen seem to be a better group to urge the usage of vaccines.

It's really sad, actually, how Dr. Fauci went from one of the most trusted people in the world regarding this pandemic to someone with no credibility.  Once he was forced to admit that he didn't report facts regarding things like herd immunity percentages but rather his "gut feel" on what he "thought the public could handle", nothing he said after could be counted on to be impartial or factual.  He really should resign and let someone else step in who can start with a clean slate, and who will state emphatically from the start that their role is to provide the scientific facts so that others in decision-making positions can make informed decisions.

[ontheweb]

I just want to say to @Mary229 that I think we have made a good example for others. We started out basically disagreeing, but instead of resorting to name calling as some others have done, have had a rational discussion. We have both listened to one another and responded in respectful ways.

[Mary229]

@ontheweb  continuing from the article we are researching.   Mississippi was straightforward. It follows the same trend as most rural states with the vaccine rollout going very well in the dense population centers.  I don't think this reflects anything but ease of transportation and as the weather improves I think we will see more rural populations becoming vaccinated.  Please note that the 84.4% rate is calculated using this week's allotment.  To calculate rates it is best to grab the numbers on Sunday afternoon just prior to the announcement of the following week's allotment.   Again, there is no 30% gap in sight.   https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/12130.pdf

 

Edited:  One thing I would like to point out is if you go to the full pdf you will see a weekly chart.  You can look at February and see the massive impact weather can take.  In mid February all of the south suffered an extreme cold event, something we are not really equipped to handle.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[HappyInVan]

21 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

It's really sad, actually, how Dr. Fauci went from one of the most trusted people in the world regarding this pandemic to someone with no credibility. 

 

???

 

I still listen to and respect Dr. Fauci. Last I heard, Dr. Fauci is trusted more than any politician. In fact, the current administration appointed him Chief Medical Advisor. In the last administration, he was just a member of the Covid Task Force with Pence as Chair.

 

 

Back on topic. I hope that CCL CEO listens to the experts. But, I fear that his $$$ instincts are in charge.

Edited April 21, 2021 by HappyInVan

[rucrazy]

9 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

I still listen to and respect Dr. Fauci. Last I heard, Dr. Fauci is trusted more than any politician.

Totally Agree, Dr Fauci is my go to expert for infectious disease, for over 30 years!

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Here's an article naming the states with the most vaccine hesitancy.

 

3 things scientists have learned about vaccine hesitancy: Analysis - ABC News (go.com)

So North Dakota was easy also.  I don't really understand this "analysis". I am reposting your article in case others are following along.  Again the data is as of Tuesday, so it shows all of the vaccines including those to be administered today through Sunday.   

https://www.health.nd.gov/covid19vaccine/dashboard

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[Mary229]

I still have to piece together Wyoming but if anyone would like me to present the data for another state I will try to gather the info.

[HappyInVan]

39 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

@ontheweb  continuing from the article we are researching.   Mississippi was straightforward. It follows the same trend as most rural states with the vaccine rollout going very well in the dense population centers.  I don't think this reflects anything but ease of transportation and as the weather improves I think we will see more rural populations becoming vaccinated.  

 

The best way to test your hypothesis is to check the facts. It is likely that rural areas are vax slower than suburban and urban areas. The null hypothesis is that some other factors are at work. Education and income?

 

Connecticut (population 3.5m) is at the top of % vaccinated. The state's biggest cities are just 100k in size. However, “it has the highest per-capita income, second-highest level of human development behind Massachusetts, and highest median household income in the United States”, according to wiki.

 

The key question is whether the rural areas will catch up? You have to present a graph of the rural states showing that the pace of vax is still accelerating, or at least plateau.

 

What about the experiences in your state of TX, where the two biggest metro areas represent half the population?

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by HappyInVan