CDC Level 4 Countries

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

And yet, after a slow start we’re moving along....

 

 

 

 

That's an impressive jump!

[caribill]

6 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

As I posted earlier- UK is on the list because of the variant.

 

• Because of the current situation in  the United Kingdom even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants and should avoid all travel to the United Kingdom.
• If you must travel to the United Kingdom, get fully vaccinated before travel. All travelers should wear a mask, stay 6 feet from others, avoid crowds, and wash their hands.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-united-kingdom

[memoak]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

I can't for the life of me figure out how Canada became a 3rd world country in terms of vaccine supply.

None of the vaccines are manufactured in Canada so they all have to be imported 

[caribill]

6 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

We are going to St.Marteen,St Lucia ,Tortola and Barbados in June on Celebrity. St.Marteen is a level 3 and Tortola is also I believe. We did not even bother with insurance for this one as we knew it would not be valid.  If the levels are adjusted by the end of May we might buy some then. We do have 25,000 medical with our Health Insurance.

 

Being at level 3 is not so good either. Here is what the CDC says about visiting St.Maarten:

Key Information for Travelers to Sint Maarten

• Travelers should avoid all nonessential travel to Sint Maarten.
• Because of the current situation in Sint Maarten even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants and should avoid nonessential travel to Sint Maarten.
• If you must travel to Sint Maarten, get fully vaccinated before travel. All travelers should wear a mask, stay 6 feet from others, avoid crowds, and wash their hands.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-3/coronavirus-sint-maarten

 

Since St. Martin and St. Maarten are on the same small island with easy and non-restricted travel between them, I do not understand why one is at level-3 and the other at level-4.

[K.T.B.]

4 hours ago, NavArch64 said:

See COVID-19 and Cruise Ship Travel - COVID-19 Very High - Level 4: COVID-19 Very High - Travel Health Notices | Travelers' Health | CDC  for current info.

 

IMO, there's a far greater chance of catching Covid on an airplane than on a cruise. IMO, they're unfairly singling out cruising because of what happened last year at about this time when doctors we're still trying to figure out this virus.  I think they're "stuck" on what happened on Diamond Princess and refuse to move off of it.

 

If you're unvaccinated, there is a risk.

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

That's an impressive jump!

Yes.  As another poster stated, COVID-19 vaccines are not manufactured in Canada so when there are production/supply problems..... no vaccinations!  Those problems (mainly in Feb and Mar) appear to be largely resolved and a lot of people are getting a shot at getting a shot.  My wife and I had our first Moderna on Thursday; second is not scheduled until later in August.  Most Provinces have decided to go with an extended period between the shots as the trade off for getting as many people as possible partially vaccinated as quickly as possible.

[NavArch64]

To K.T.B.  .... concerning airplanes vs ships .... CDC has an additional "problem" to deal with. US airlines are US companies, legally domiciled in the US, subject to US law and US taxation, use US registered aircraft, and are generally cooperative with US authorities. The cruise lines, however, (at least the big boys) are foreign companies, legally domiciled in Panama, Liberia, Bermuda, Switzerland, etc, avoid US law and taxation where possible, use foreign (flag) registered ships, and are generally less than fully cooperative with US authorities.

Edited April 24, 2021 by NavArch64

[memoak]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

IMO, there's a far greater chance of catching Covid on an airplane than on a cruise. IMO, they're unfairly singling out cruising because of what happened last year at about this time when doctors we're still trying to figure out this virus.  I think they're "stuck" on what happened on Diamond Princess and refuse to move off of it.

 

If you're unvaccinated, there is a risk.

One problem is a plane flight is measured in hours not days or weeks and a ship may be days from the nearest port

[tanyaewa]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

IMO, there's a far greater chance of catching Covid on an airplane than on a cruise. IMO, they're unfairly singling out cruising because of what happened last year at about this time when doctors we're still trying to figure out this virus.  I think they're "stuck" on what happened on Diamond Princess and refuse to move off of it.

 

If you're unvaccinated, there is a risk.

Of course it’s easier to catch covid on an airplane.  But by the time symptoms arise you are off and gone. So bad so sad to those I was on the plane with.
On a ship you may still be onboard and infecting everything in sight for multiple days and those folks will do the same and so on and so on.  

Airlines can wash their hands of liability when people just pass through but the cruise lines are left holding the bag during an outbreak. 
 

This is why cruising will be the last travel option to resume IMO. It’s a huge responsibility to keep litigation happy passengers safe and healthy

[NavArch64]

So, can the CDC trust the cruise lines to do the right thing during the COVID19 pandemic? IMO, that is why the CSO is so descriptive. And, as expected, the cruise lines have tried to ignore it. They have decided that a political attack on the CDC is preferable, using CLIA as the mechanism to build pressure on the White House. 

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

• Because of the current situation in  the United Kingdom even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants and should avoid all travel to the United Kingdom.
• If you must travel to the United Kingdom, get fully vaccinated before travel. All travelers should wear a mask, stay 6 feet from others, avoid crowds, and wash their hands.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-united-kingdom

Which is what we have been doing in the UK for the last year. And thanks to our vaccine programme,  things are looking much better here than most other countries in the world.

The question remains- why is the US stopping its citizens travelling to countries that are safer than the US?

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, tanyaewa said:

Of course it’s easier to catch covid on an airplane.  

No it's not, due to the air filtration system used on aircraft, and the same  filters on aircraft are now being installed on cruise ships. 

Perhaps you can give some factual details to support your unscientific claim.

[PrincessLuver]

3 hours ago, tanyaewa said:

Of course it’s easier to catch covid on an airplane.  But by the time symptoms arise you are off and gone. So bad so sad to those I was on the plane with.

Not true.

 

According to experts, the risk of catching the coronavirus on a plane is relatively low if the airline is following the procedures laid out by public health experts: enforcing mask compliance, spacing out available seats and screening for sick passengers.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/odds-catching-covid-19-flight-wellness-scn/index.html

[nocl]

5 hours ago, NavArch64 said:

To K.T.B.  .... concerning airplanes vs ships .... CDC has an additional "problem" to deal with. US airlines are US companies, legally domiciled in the US, subject to US law and US taxation, use US registered aircraft, and are generally cooperative with US authorities. The cruise lines, however, (at least the big boys) are foreign companies, legally domiciled in Panama, Liberia, Bermuda, Switzerland, etc, avoid US law and taxation where possible, use foreign (flag) registered ships, and are generally less than fully cooperative with US authorities.

Add to that the cruise lines are not subject to US standards and laws, except those applied as with the CSO for access to American ports.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, tanyaewa said:

Of course it’s easier to catch covid on an airplane.  But by the time symptoms arise you are off and gone. So bad so sad to those I was on the plane with.
On a ship you may still be onboard and infecting everything in sight for multiple days and those folks will do the same and so on and so on.  

Airlines can wash their hands of liability when people just pass through but the cruise lines are left holding the bag during an outbreak. 
 

This is why cruising will be the last travel option to resume IMO. It’s a huge responsibility to keep litigation happy passengers safe and healthy

You apparently are unaware that in many countries including the US if someone tests positive and it is identified during contact tracing that the person was recently on an aircraft that information is reported and tracked.  In the case of the US the information goes to the CDC as well as the health departments at both end of the flight.  So the CDC does collect statistics and can estimate transmission during air travel.

 

In the case of other countries such as Australia there is a publicly accessible web site that identifies and flights that may have had a person that may have been infectious on board.

 

There have been a few flights where there was confirmed spread on board.  A flight to Vietnam early in the outbreak.  A Ryan air flight from Greece back to the UK and a few others.  But they have been relatively few.

[nocl]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:42 AM, K.T.B. said:

I posted this elsewhere, but here are the incidence rates:  LINK

 

IMO, it's impossible to get below 100 cases per 100,000 for the majority of countries.  It will never be that way.  Covid is here to stay, we just need to be vaccinated to help slow the spread.  

Fortunately those with the actual responsibility for fighting the pandemic have not yet given up and feel that lower rates are not only possible but probable.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

Not true.

 

According to experts, the risk of catching the coronavirus on a plane is relatively low if the airline is following the procedures laid out by public health experts: enforcing mask compliance, spacing out available seats and screening for sick passengers.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/odds-catching-covid-19-flight-wellness-scn/index.html

 

But it does not appear that even the airlines believe that:

 

If everything is just so fine with packing planes to their very gills, why is it that Southwest Airlines is trying to stop passengers from ordering by using their voices? Yes, even while wearing masks.

 

And why, too, do United Airlines flight attendants worry that serving snacks again leads to a "toxic environment"?

 

above from https://www.zdnet.com/article/united-airlines-said-it-was-just-pr-the-cdc-says-airlines-are-full-of-it/

[PrincessLuver]

54 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

But it does not appear that even the airlines believe that:

 

If everything is just so fine with packing planes to their very gills, why is it that Southwest Airlines is trying to stop passengers from ordering by using their voices? Yes, even while wearing masks.

 

And why, too, do United Airlines flight attendants worry that serving snacks again leads to a "toxic environment"?

 

above from https://www.zdnet.com/article/united-airlines-said-it-was-just-pr-the-cdc-says-airlines-are-full-of-it/

Still proves nothing.... those are antidotal examples and not based in reality....

[K.T.B.]

8 hours ago, tanyaewa said:

Of course it’s easier to catch covid on an airplane.  But by the time symptoms arise you are off and gone. So bad so sad to those I was on the plane with.
On a ship you may still be onboard and infecting everything in sight for multiple days and those folks will do the same and so on and so on.  

Airlines can wash their hands of liability when people just pass through but the cruise lines are left holding the bag during an outbreak. 
 

This is why cruising will be the last travel option to resume IMO. It’s a huge responsibility to keep litigation happy passengers safe and healthy

 

Which is why I am eager to see how the cruises that Celebrity is doing out of St. Maarten fare.  Passengers and crew member all vaccinated, kids under 16 negative Covid test 72 hours prior to sailing.  If they all sail with zero problems, then it's been proven that cruising can return under those rules.

[gmjc2]

6 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Which is why I am eager to see how the cruises that Celebrity is doing out of St. Maarten fare.  Passengers and crew member all vaccinated, kids under 16 negative Covid test 72 hours prior to sailing.  If they all sail with zero problems, then it's been proven that cruising can return under those rules.

We are on that cruise June 12th so we will report back!!!

[gmjc2]

17 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Being at level 3 is not so good either. Here is what the CDC says about visiting St.Maarten:

Key Information for Travelers to Sint Maarten

• Travelers should avoid all nonessential travel to Sint Maarten.
• Because of the current situation in Sint Maarten even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants and should avoid nonessential travel to Sint Maarten.
• If you must travel to Sint Maarten, get fully vaccinated before travel. All travelers should wear a mask, stay 6 feet from others, avoid crowds, and wash their hands.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-3/coronavirus-sint-maarten

 

Since St. Martin and St. Maarten are on the same small island with easy and non-restricted travel between them, I do not understand why one is at level-3 and the other at level-4.

We agree!  I wondered that myself as the border is non existent!

We fly in and go straight to the ship so hopefully not an issue. Some on the roll call are staying on the island for a few days prior. That I would not do. 

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

Still proves nothing.... those are antidotal examples and not based in reality....

Did you mean to write "anecdotal"?

[NavArch64]

Another question for gmjc2 ... do you think that the Celebrity embarkation testing can "find" any fellow guests who flew into St. Maarten a few days earlier and contracted COVID19 locally, and were about to bring it onboard as asypmtomatic carriers to potentially infect others on the ship?

Edited April 25, 2021 by NavArch64

[gmjc2]

Just now, NavArch64 said:

Another question for gmjc2 ... do you think that the Celebrity embarkation testing can "find" any fellow guests who flew into St. Maarten a few days earlier and contracted COVID19 locally, and were about to bring it onboard as asypmtomatic carriers to potentially infect others on the ship?

That is something that does bother me. But it is going to be impossible to be completely 100% safe for a long time, if ever! I am willing to travel with vaccinations and precautions.

Life is to short to waste in the house worrying. 

[NavArch64]

The reason I ask ... in Europe, I think that TUI flew guests from Hamburg on a chartered aircraft to Crete and by bus directly to the ship for embarkation. Then, after disembarkation, reversed the procedure. All guests stayed in a "bubble" from/to Hamburg. But, you make a good point ... when can we get back to a "new normal"? I just want to safely go to sea again. I wish you well.

 

PS I have 6 active bookings.

Edited April 25, 2021 by NavArch64