What is crew incentive?

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, this is why it is not called "gratuities" in most lines.  It is done for two reasons.  One, to keep the advertised cabin fare as low as possible, since a "daily service charge" is not legally part of the fare in the US.  Second, it provides a "carrot and stick" approach to guest services, in that poor service by anyone on the team affects everyone on the team, and therefore encourages peer pressure.  It also allows the cruise line to deny any part of a reduction in crew pay, saying it is the passenger who is doing it.  I don't agree with the policy, but it is what it is.

And also by not being part of the cruise fare, it can sometimes lower your insurance costs if it keeps you from going into a higher dollar category. On our last (unfortunately cancelled cruise), we were right below a border line, so if the gratuities were an added charge, we would have had to pay more for our travel insurance.

[ontheweb]

54 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Yes but surely it is Princess or Carnival to make sure that their staff are adequately paid and not pressurising those that cruise into feeling guilty into giving them "crew incentive" or gratuities whatever they want to be called ot get a decent wage. I agree that they earn  their money but when you get senior management on millions of $$$ a year with bonuses on top then it is hypocritical of them to expect cruisers to pay it. If everyone carries on paying it then Princess/Carnival will let them because it saves them money on wages boosts their profits and then boosts their annual bonus. It stinks of a bit of I am alright jack and the easy and best way is just pay the staff the wage they deserve without having to rely on gratuities.

But you withholding your tips will not change this; it will only take money from the very hard working crew members.

[pms4104]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And also by not being part of the cruise fare, it can sometimes lower your insurance costs if it keeps you from going into a higher dollar category. On our last (unfortunately cancelled cruise), we were right below a border line, so if the gratuities were an added charge, we would have had to pay more for our travel insurance.

But with Princess Plus ... grats, wifi, bevs are INCLUDED in the fare ... and, therefore, are part of costs to be insured.

Edited September 4, 2021 by pms4104

[cruzsnooze]

16 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But you withholding your tips will not change this; it will only take money from the very hard working crew members.

I don't believe that at all. I believe Princess keeps an administration percentage and all the monies do not go to the crew and profit center.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Yes but surely it is Princess or Carnival to make sure that their staff are adequately paid and not pressurising those that cruise into feeling guilty into giving them "crew incentive" or gratuities whatever they want to be called ot get a decent wage. I agree that they earn  their money but when you get senior management on millions of $$$ a year with bonuses on top then it is hypocritical of them to expect cruisers to pay it. If everyone carries on paying it then Princess/Carnival will let them because it saves them money on wages boosts their profits and then boosts their annual bonus. It stinks of a bit of I am alright jack and the easy and best way is just pay the staff the wage they deserve without having to rely on gratuities.

Why are cruise fares higher in the UK?  Because that "crew incentive" is in there.  So, if for US bookings, they did away with the "crew incentive", do you really think the fare would remain the same?  Nope, they would add it in.

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

All cruise lines are guilty of changing the names just to confuse people and to stop them from removing them at reception and the longer people keep paying it they will carry on doing it and charges will increase.

It really has nothing to do with whether people continue to pay it or not.  As long as US law allows it, they will continue to do it for the reasons I stated before.  It won't save a cruiser a single penny whether they have "crew incentive" or not.  And the reason the charges keep going up is that the minimum wage for seafarers keeps going up.

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

I don't believe that at all. I believe Princess keeps an administration percentage and all the monies do not go to the crew and profit center.

While not all the money goes to the crew directly, some is retained in a crew welfare fund to pay for crew parties and such.  The cruise lines are not allowed to keep any of the money, or they would not be allowed to split the charge out of the fare.  Just like port taxes and fees, they are strictly limited in what can or cannot be included in these.

[cruzsnooze]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

While not all the money goes to the crew directly, some is retained in a crew welfare fund to pay for crew parties and such.  The cruise lines are not allowed to keep any of the money, or they would not be allowed to split the charge out of the fare.  Just like port taxes and fees, they are strictly limited in what can or cannot be included in these.

Administrative fees are permitted and that's a profit that goes into Princess' bottom line. There is no transparency about the percent of our crew incentive that actually goes to crew. 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

Can the crew incentive me removed?

 

I was told that it could not; but I don't view that source as very reliable.

 

Thanks.

Since the major cruise line holding companies  NCLH, RCL, and CCL are listed on the US stock exchanges they operate under US accounting standards.

 

Under those standards gratuities (crew incentive) are not included in revenue or expense as long as some rules are met:

 

1. They must be optional (in other words they can be removed)

 

2. All of the funds must go to employees

 

Since there is no comment or line item about the crew incentive as either revenue or expense (they certainly would be large enough to be material and as such reported in the SEC filings) they should be removable, though it might not be easy and I for one would neither recommend or consider removing it.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Why are cruise fares higher in the UK?  Because that "crew incentive" is in there.  So, if for US bookings, they did away with the "crew incentive", do you really think the fare would remain the same?  Nope, they would add it in.

 

P&O included the gratuities into the cruise fare with no great increase in fares whereas Princess and Cunard still add a daily automatic amount on to your account. P&O are even with gratuities inclusive are still cheaper than Princess who are comparable cruise line as far as standards.

[majortom10]

3 minutes ago, nocl said:

Since the major cruise line holding companies  NCLH, RCL, and CCL are listed on the US stock exchanges they operate under US accounting standards.

 

Under those standards gratuities (crew incentive) are not included in revenue or expense as long as some rules are met:

 

1. They must be optional (in other words they can be removed)

 

2. All of the funds must go to employees

 

Since there is no comment or line item about the crew incentive as either revenue or expense (they certainly would be large enough to be material and as such reported in the SEC filings) they should be removable, though it might not be easy and I for one would neither recommend or consider removing it.

They are quiet easy to remove you just go to reception at beginning of cruise and tell them you want to remove gratuities and you sign a form. Simple as that.

[nocl]

3 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

Administrative fees are permitted and that's a profit that goes into Princess' bottom line. There is no transparency about the percent of our crew incentive that actually goes to crew. 

Internal administrative fees are not permitted, only payment of outside fees involved in processing the funds, such as credit card fees.

 

They might label something as administrative fees, but it is not money kept by the cruise line, it is a bucket that hold the fees they pay to others involved in processing the funds.

 

US accounting rules.

[memoak]

8 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

I find it's too high and I always adjust it at the guest services desk to the lowest amount of $14. The higher category cabins pay a disproportionate amount IMHO since the services are the same for all cabins except a few extra sq, ft. in suites. Also entertainment  guest services and the shops are now in the mix. Where does the hand out end?

 

CREW INCENTIVE PAYMENT INFORMATION

To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary crew incentive of USD 16.50 per guest for suites, USD 15.50 per guest for mini-suites, and USD 14.50 per guest for interior, oceanview, and balcony staterooms, per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account. This crew incentive will be shared amongst those staff that help provide and support your cruise experience, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas. For your convenience, the crew incentive can be pre-paid before you sail by calling us or logging in to your Cruise Personalizer online at http://www.princess.com/cruisepersonalizer. Pre-paid crew incentives may be added up to two days prior to your embarkation.
You have complete discretion to adjust the crew incentive while onboard, but the crew incentive may only be adjusted prior to disembarking the ship. If included as part of a promotion or package, it cannot be adjusted or refunded.

Believe me my Vista suite is way way bigger than an inside and requires more work. Perhaps they should charge gratuities by the amount of people in a cabin or how much of a mess they make

[awhcruiser]

35 minutes ago, memoak said:

Believe me my Vista suite is way way bigger than an inside and requires more work. Perhaps they should charge gratuities by the amount of people in a cabin or how much of a mess they make

Agreed.  People can trash a cabin no matter the size and expect it to be cleaned while having tips removed.

[cr8tiv1]

Most suites are twice the size of a regular stateroom.  Therefore, "crew incentives" should be RAISED

 from $16.50 to 2 x $14.00 = $28.00. 

 

Low end:  Suite 500 - 1500 square feet

Interior:  160 square feet

Ocean view:   200 square feet (and this is being generous)

Balcony:  250 square feet

Mini:  320 square feet

 

There will always be those who disagree with the suggested amount.  I am not the gratuity police and I don't care.  I am thankful for all that the crew does for me.  

 

[brisalta]

21 hours ago, curlybelle2 said:

Ok Thanks, Why didn't they just say that?! 😃

 

Someone needed something to add to their quarterly or yearly job assessment as an achievement.

[brisalta]

20 hours ago, taxatty said:

Because it's 21st century semantic game-playing, like "pre-owned cars" instead of "used cars" or a number of others that I can't repeat on CC.

 

"Pre-owned cars" is so 20th century. It is the 21st century and we need to move to the term "used cars"

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

"Pre-owned cars" is so 20th century. It is the 21st century and we need to move to the term "used cars"

How about "previously used cars"?

[brisalta]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

How about "previously used cars"?

 

Hmmmm...so you are passing used cars off as new? I think the FTC might want words with you. 😉

[nocl]

12 hours ago, majortom10 said:

It is obvious like prices in shops the genuine customer pays a little bit extra to cover for shoplifting. I am sure when Princess decide charges they put a bit extra on for those that remove theirs so that Princess dont have to pay it. The whole gratuity/crew incentive is outdated now and has lost its true meaning. The meaning of gratuity is an extra payment received for good service, so the customer should decide how much to give and only after receiving good service not like cruise lines seem to think. We all know it is done to give staff a decent wage because what they give is abysmal and they do it to boost their profits and they play on customers to feel guilty for not giving it.

 

Different countries, different culture.  Should not be surprising that Princess, whose headquarters is in California, follows the US system.

[pms4104]

Some eateries in US not permitting tips at all ... however, they have raised prices by 20% ... so, if Princess were to follow that model, ya think they'd agree to roll back prices by 10%?  15%?  20%?

[SinbadThePorter]

30 minutes ago, nocl said:

Different countries, different culture.  Should not be surprising that Princess, whose headquarters is in California, follows the US system.

 

Except in Australia.

[nocl]

24 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

Except in Australia.

If I recall gratuities are included for Australians booking cruises out of Australia.  They are not included for Americans booking those cruises.  But then again I have read some complaints about differences in fares between the two.

[cruzsnooze]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

Since the major cruise line holding companies  NCLH, RCL, and CCL are listed on the US stock exchanges they operate under US accounting standards.

 

Under those standards gratuities (crew incentive) are not included in revenue or expense as long as some rules are met:

 

1. They must be optional (in other words they can be removed)

 

2. All of the funds must go to employees

 

Since there is no comment or line item about the crew incentive as either revenue or expense (they certainly would be large enough to be material and as such reported in the SEC filings) they should be removable, though it might not be easy and I for one would neither recommend or consider removing it.

They are all registered to other countries so they do NOT adhere to US standards and do not pay Taxes. NCL has the only flagged US ship and doesn't have a casino or duty free shops because of that. 

 Where are you getting your misinformation?

[nocl]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

They are all registered to other countries so they do NOT adhere to US standards and do not pay Taxes. NCL has the only flagged US ship and doesn't have a casino or duty free shops because of that. 

 Where are you getting your misinformation?

You apparently either did not read what I said or did not understand it.  Notice for example that I said SEC not IRS. While the companies are incorporated in other countries CCL, RCL and NCLH stocks are registered on the US stock exchanges.  (actually CCL is double listed on both US stock exchanges and the London exchange).  If a company is listed on a US stock exchange they submit filings to the SEC.  Those filings and the associated accounting must follow US accounting standards and US law. 

 

Has nothing to with where the companies are registered or taxes.  Has everything to do with the SEC, US accounting standards and selling their stock on US exchanges.

 

From CCLs 10Q

QUARTERLY REPORT PURSUANT TO SECTION 13 OR 15(d) OF THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934

 

The SEC certainly would have something to say if their accounting standards did not follow US accounting standards and FASB guidance.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by nocl

[caribill]

16 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

Can the crew incentive me removed?

 

I was told that it could not; but I don't view that source as very reliable.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, nocl said:

 

 

Under those standards gratuities (crew incentive) are not included in revenue or expense as long as some rules are met:

 

1. They must be optional (in other words they can be removed)

 

 

 

If the "crew incentive" (gratuities) is included because you booked a Princess Plus fare, then they can not be reduced or removed.

 

If you booked with the Princess Savers fare, then they would be posed to your onboard account daily and you can have them reduced or totally removed.

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

If the "crew incentive" (gratuities) is included because you booked a Princess Plus fare, then they can not be reduced or removed.

 

Thanks.  This explains what I heard.