"ALWAYS INCLUDED" PERHAPS CELEBRITY SHOULD RETHINK THIS ONE

[DCPIV]

Just now, the penguins said:

See post 24. Try it yourself not only on TA's but all the European, Far East and Asia Pacific cruises we have tried

 

I suppose those cruises aren't eligible for this promotion?

 

I really didn't look into it.  I wasn't even aware of the promotion when I booked.  I just went to the website and did it.

[the penguins]

52 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

AI is great addition and I hope it continues as permanent feature.  I just hope they upgrade the internet capabilities to handle all of the new users.

As an "addition" I agree but as the sole choice definitely not. You can guess Celebrity's response to the slow Internet that's already an issue " upgrade to the faster package". These upgrades appear as options before you complete your AI booking

[the penguins]

5 minutes ago, DCPIV said:

 

I suppose those cruises aren't eligible for this promotion?

 

I really didn't look into it.  I wasn't even aware of the promotion when I booked.  I just went to the website and did it.

Celebrity make it very clear that AI applies to most itineraries. Even on the promotion you booked the saving, once you have added back the tips, will be probably have been around $30 per person per day. Did you choose your cabin or was it a "guarantee"?

[PTC DAWG]

5 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Celebrity make it very clear that AI applies to most itineraries. Even on the promotion you booked the saving, once you have added back the tips, will be probably have been around $30 per person per day. Did you choose your cabin or is it a "guarantee"?

I said this on another thread...I'm beginning to think that many against this promotion are the same folks in line the last night at Guest Services having room gratuities removed...I can see why they want to put a stop to this.  

 

$30 a day for the ease of being able to order the bottled water, any of the coffees and other drinks that are in the package is really very little to pay (it covers more than alcoholic drinks).  And I think they realize that many passengers are wanting at least a cursory internet service...they are really trying to make it easy...

Edited October 28, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[Denny01]

I understand that others have posted that they couldn’t tell when the AI was or wasn’t part of the reservations they made, but I tried numerous times, adding my CC#, State, Military, Guaranteed SR and so on, and every time it was explicit on being available or not. So I think saying its ‘fraud’ is more than a stretch. It’s not true. 

 

And as to it not being a deal a large number don’t want……as stated on many previous threads discussing the same exact thing, yes, if you don’t drink or use wifi and those few who sneak down and remove their auto gratuities, yes it could be more expensive. But with all that said. I’m Elite Plus and yes, the AI drink package is less or a value to me, but just as a Great majority of cruisers, I’ve been known to have a drink outside the 5-7pm happy hr, including a nice wine at dinner. So I’ll somehow live with this….I personally think its a great tool to get more to book with X, which is the point.

 

I personally think this is a good deal of “it’s not exactly what I want”….which is each personal choice and why its great there are so many other Lines to pick. And I don’t see the cases where AI is or isn’t part of the reservation isn’t obvious. But I didn’t go through Every booking…..

 

den

[DCPIV]

24 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Celebrity make it very clear that AI applies to most itineraries. Even on the promotion you booked the saving, once you have added back the tips, will be probably have been around $30 per person per day. Did you choose your cabin or was it a "guarantee"?

 

I was able to choose my cabin.  The amount of the promotional discount was more like $150/pp/day.  I'm not going to back out the gratuities (or the OBC) because I was under the impression that those still were included at the promotional price.

 

In the end, I was able to restore the Retreat perks for about $1,000.  That was essentially buying back the gratuities and OBC for par value and then paying about $135 for drinks and wifi.  In a sense, that's a pretty good deal except for the fact that I was under the impression all that already was included in the original price because nothing affirmatively indicated otherwise.

 

The bottom line is that, had X affirmatively noted that this was a cruise only fare, there would have been no issue.  I might have gone back and redone the booking without the loyalty promotion, or I might not have.  The point is that I would have understood what was going on and had a chance to make the choice prior to paying the deposit.

 

To be completely honest, I actually LIKE this loyalty fare option.  It's a great way to address the complaints and concerns of the customers that are quite happy with the CC benefits they have and do not care to pay more for AI benefits that they find overly redundant and expensive.  The problem is the way Celebrity has implemented it and marketed it. 

 

Just plainly say that it is a cruise only fare.

[mfs2k]

Personally, 

I think if Celebrity wants to be comparable to All-Inclusive vacation packages one can take elsewhere, (land or sea) they should make every booking All-inclusive. Keep it simple.  

If you go to an All-Inclusive Riviera Maya resort, you pay the same whether you drink or use the internet or not, and the tips (supposedly) go to the service staff. 

Its simple and easy.

 

Sigh.  On the other hand, there should be a way for non-drinkers to not pay for alcohol.  Ugh.  This isn't easy, is it...

[the penguins]

30 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

Personally, 

I think if Celebrity wants to be comparable to All-Inclusive vacation packages one can take elsewhere, (land or sea) they should make every booking All-inclusive. Keep it simple.  

If you go to an All-Inclusive Riviera Maya resort, you pay the same whether you drink or use the internet or not, and the tips (supposedly) go to the service staff. 

Its simple and easy.

 

Sigh.  On the other hand, there should be a way for non-drinkers to not pay for alcohol.  Ugh.  This isn't easy, is it...

It's very simple - see post 10 - no losers, noone pays for something they don't want, and solo passengers don't pay double for drinks that they can't possibly use.

[dani negreanu]

6 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

AI has effectively gutted my Elite benefits and loyalty is pretty much out the window.

 

+ 1

 

* We don't drink.

 

* Our travel agent always got us as a perk free grats.

 

* The Elite benefits were enough for mineral water/soda water daily.

 

* Same goes for the 24 hours free wifi pp.

 

To sum it up -- with AI we pay much more for "perks" we don't use...

 

[Orator]

Some people like the AI concept because they gain something. Some people hate the AI concept because they lose something. I gain from AI on other lines because I come out ahead. I detest AI on Celebrity because I see myself paying more for what I already have as benefits. Personal perspective is different based on your perceived gains or losses. 

[GREGAHOY]

18 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

There have been several threads pertaining to Celebrity's  "Always Included" feature and for the most part negative comments abound. I have always been a proponent of AI, perhaps because it has not caused me consternation when booking cruises. However, there are lots of seasoned, intelligent cruisers who seem to think that AI is a form of misdirection, disabling an otherwise smooth booking process while enabling X to take away their choice. The more I read and participate in these threads, the more I have come to realize that this might be the case.

 

Whether intentional or not, X's presentation of the AI feature is at best, confusing. Beyond that, understanding where it relates and when it applies can cause frustration in that one does not feel in control of the booking process. Simply put, Celebrity is in control of what I want. I will settle for what X wants to give me. That kind of mindset among current passengers does not ensure loyalty. And, when Celebrity is looking to attract new cruisers, the easiest approach to book a cruise without doing research and reading between the lines is the one that works best.

 

I am to the point where I believe Celebrity needs to rethink this one. Fraud is a powerful descriptor and has been used by some posters in referencing Always Included. Personally, I would not want that word to integrate any part of my business. I have never had a problem with AI. However, because so many good folks find this feature to be off-putting, perhaps Celebrity should find a better way to entice it's customers while being totally transparent in that endeavor.

 

 

Well-written. I agree with misdirection. An example is below (I added the arrows). A consumer using this page could be forgiven for assuming that $704 provides an inside cabin that includes drinks, wi-fi and tips. However the cost is $936, which is shown four clicks later in booking. Perhaps a simple extra sentence added to the taxes/fees disclaimer would solve this.

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, Orator said:

Some people like the AI concept because they gain something. Some people hate the AI concept because they lose something. I gain from AI on other lines because I come out ahead. I detest AI on Celebrity because I see myself paying more for what I already have as benefits. Personal perspective is different based on your perceived gains or losses. 

Agree 100% - tell Celebrity exactly that

[mnocket]

Ever since Tesla got away with claiming "Fully Self-Driving" cars, I've come to the conclusion that companies can make pretty much any (false) claim they want.  They simply are not held accountable.  That said.....  Always Included may be confusing, but it doesn't come close to Tesla's fraudulent product naming. jmho

[Pinboy]

3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

1---they are really trying to make it easy...

2---I'm beginning to think that many against this promotion are the same folks in line the last night at Guest Services having room gratuities removed...

Really ????

1---What's " easy " or should I say smart about paying $ 60 per day x 14 days =$840  ( 2 people ) when you don't drink and use limited internet ?

2---Kindly read my comment on post # 13 ---  re gratuities. I guarantee you it's not only people that don't like the AI that are in the " I ain't payin no gratuities " line .

I'll bet the lines were long prior to this " bird brain " AI marketing " tool " ( ??? ).

 

[middlehaitch]

@gregahoy, look at the bottom right of the image you posted. There is the *, which is on the posted rate, showing the cost of taxes and fees. It is your extra sentence, albeit a very small extra sentence.

 

Cheers, h.

[ChucktownSteve]

20 hours ago, intr3pid said:

They should simply provide the choices in a more transparent and intuitive way. 

 

Some people seem to forget LLP is all about generating as much revenue as she can.  If she can confuse cruisers into paying more, then she's accomplished her goal. That's why they forced the purchase of Liquor and Wi-Fi.  Plus if you're cruising solo, you had to pay for two liquor and Wi-Fi packages.

[happy cruzer]

Yep, it's the one word "Always" that bugs me.  They could call it the "Inclusive*" fare and that would avoid All and Always even AIs get a black eye because they often have items not included.

 

Then there is also the final step to get a Refundable Deposit fare....

[jg51]

21 hours ago, intr3pid said:

They should simply provide the choices in a more transparent and intuitive way. 

 

17 hours ago, the penguins said:

Correct:

1) a base price with tips.

2) everything else as options.

Noone loses, if you like AI add the drinks, internet or both.

Solo passengers won't pay for 2 internet and 2 drinks packages.

If you like this tell Celebrity.

As usual, "the penguins," you (and "intr3pid") are on the right track -- and we are joining you in "tell[ing] Celebrity" so, right here and now.  [Don't imagine that their "spies" are not reading this board!]

 

However, "the penguins," what you have stated is not nearly as much as we need to tell Celebrity.  We have to tell them also to radically redesign their Internet site.  [That may be very tough to do, at this point in history, because they may be unable (or unwilling [$]) to hire enough talented people to perform the new design and programming that are necessary.  Nevertheless, we will continue ...]

 

One of us was in the "Information Technology" [formerly called "Data Processing"] world, as a "computer programmer" and "systems analyst" [old terms for "IT Specialist"], for forty years (1975-2015) and has been using the Internet daily since 1995.  He says the following:

 

1.  The "X" site's "Home Page" needs to provide for the IMMEDIATE entry of as many search-variables [so-called "Filters"] as possible -- not merely three ("Departure Dates," "Destinations," and "Departure Ports").  Besides those three, the Home Page -- not a subsequent page -- should allow a potential guest to specify "Ship[s]" and "Number of Nights" [not "Number of Days"].  Being able to enter any or all of those five variables will immediately help the consumer to zero in on as small a list of cruises as possible, saving him/her time.  This is an example of "user-friendliness."

 

2.  From the list of cruises that is then displayed, the potential guest will choose one, clicking on it.  At that very moment, a little window must pop up and say one of these two things:
EITHER:  "The cruise you have chosen to review will be departing soon -- in __ days -- so, if you book this cruise today, you will be required to pay the entire fare today.  (There is not enough time to make a deposit today and to pay the balance later.)" ...
OR:  "The cruise you have chosen to review will be departing in __ days.  If you book this cruise today, you will be required to make a deposit today and pay the balance on MMM DD YYYY.  Will you want to make a __ refundable deposit or a __ non-refundable deposit?  NOTE: Choosing to make a non-refundable deposit will result in your paying a lower fare."
[The above reflects two more examples of user-friendliness -- immediately letting a guest know when payment will be due and offering the two kinds of deposits.]

 

3.  After a reply is made (if applicable) to the above question about the deposit, another little window must pop up and ask this:
"___ Do you wish to book a cruise and pay in advance for all of the following: (1) a Classic Beverage Package, (2) Internet service [unlimited WiFi], and (3) Service Charges [aka "Gratuities"]? ...
OR ... ___ Do you wish instead to book a cruise, but to pre-pay only the Service Charges ("Gratuities)? ...
OR ... ___ Do you wish instead to book just a cruise, with none of those three items pre-paid?  NOTE:  Service Charges, if not pre-paid, will be posted daily to your on-board account instead."

 

4.  Next, the potential guest will see a pop-up window asking him/her to answer the standard questions about how many staterooms will be needed and how many guests will be staying in them.

 

5.  Then, he/she WILL see a pop-up window asking for the entry of items that could qualify him/her for a discount (e.g., state of residence, Captain's Club number, etc.).  This pop-up will ALWAYS appear -- not just if the person happens to notice that a discount may be possible and clicks on it to check (as is now the [unfriendly] case!  NOTE:  If the potential guest has stated (in reply to point 3, above) that he/she wants the three "A.I. features," then he/she will not even be given the disastrous opportunity to enter a Captain's Club number when there is a "Loyalty NRD" promotion in effect!

 

Now that the consumer has answered all these important questions "right up front," the computer program will "know" what to display and what not to display during the rest of the booking.  It won't accidentally discard the three (A.I.) features, when applicable.  It will display the proper cruise fares (based on kind of deposit, discount, etc.).  It will display the proper kinds of stateroom options (choice of specific number, "guarantee" only, etc.).  It will not have any confusing surprises at or near the end of the booking pages (e.g., about pre-payment of "gratuities").  

 

Finally, to "play it safe," the computer program will clearly display, within the summary on the very last page, the facts about WHETHER OR NOT the three A.I. features are being paid for -- e.g., "Please note that you have chosen NOT to pre-purchase ___, ___, and ___." <== [NOTE: This list would consist of only the beverage package and WiFi if the guest has chosen "Cruise Only plus pre-paid Service Charges," as some folks here at CruiseCritic have said that they would like to do.]

 

As complex as the above may seem, it is only part of what will have to be in the new program(s).  As you may have realized by now, there are other variables that will creep into the mix, along the way toward the end of the booking process.  However, revamping the system to perform basically as described above would take away a lot of headaches, lost time, lost money, and disappointments -- and, as previously stated, would be more user-friendly to boot.
.

Edited October 29, 2021 by jg51

[GREGAHOY]

5 hours ago, GREGAHOY said:

Well-written. I agree with misdirection. An example is below (I added the arrows). A consumer using this page could be forgiven for assuming that $704 provides an inside cabin that includes drinks, wi-fi and tips. However the cost is $936, which is shown four clicks later in booking. Perhaps a simple extra sentence added to the taxes/fees disclaimer would solve this.

To add to my own post, instead of an extra disclaimer, all this needs is the word "available" after the banner. 

[nocl]

It's pretty clear that Celebrity wants to move to a higher all inclusive fare structure. Instead of going all the they play games with their pricing structure trying to get people to move in that direction, but not going all the way to that being their price structure.

[jg51]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

It's pretty clear that Celebrity wants to move to a higher all inclusive fare structure. Instead of going all the [way,] they play games with their pricing structure trying to get people to move in that direction, but not going all the way to that being their price structure.

.

What "Celebrity wants" is not what it is going to get ...

because the public finds "a higher all inclusive fare structure" (and even halfway measures) to be unacceptable (confusing and unjust).

.

[hcat]

What was wrong with the three tier choices of .good better best ( something like that) ?  You could pick no, two or more perks ( something like that)

 

We usually sail in AQ Class and picked grats and Classic Bev which covered water ( which is now disgusting to drink),  alc drinks including dh beer, wine and scotch.... a few.drinks  I like,  and nice teas and coffees.  Our E + covered the. internet..don't use it much, plus laundry...  We were happy at the 2 perk level both as to price and inclusions.

 

We are now booked in a suite for BEYOND which required the all in perks and gave us some  OBC.. but won't really use it all. We can afford the cruise due to using up our fcc,,finally.

 

Not sure what we will do if we book again...the all in pricing does not seem like a good value for us.but X changes things often so not worried!

 

[4774Papa]

18 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I said this on another thread...I'm beginning to think that many against this promotion are the same folks in line the last night at Guest Services having room gratuities removed...I can see why they want to put a stop to this.  

 

$30 a day for the ease of being able to order the bottled water, any of the coffees and other drinks that are in the package is really very little to pay (it covers more than alcoholic drinks).  And I think they realize that many passengers are wanting at least a cursory internet service...they are really trying to make it easy...

They are trying to make it easy to increase revenues.

We don't drink bottled water, specialty coffees, soda or other drinks, so $30 a day is a waste.

[mfs2k]

1 hour ago, jg51 said:

.

What "Celebrity wants" is not what it is going to get ...

because the public finds "a higher all inclusive fare structure" (and even halfway measures) to be unacceptable (confusing and unjust).

.

I’m happy with a higher, all-inclusive fare structure. For the last 15 years our vacations have either been cruises or All inclusive resorts. My personal preference is not to have to think about drink prices, dining guest checks, tips and WiFi surcharges. Judging by the popularity of all-inclusive vacations, I’m not alone. It’s not for everyone but it works for me. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by mfs2k

[graphicguy]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

It's pretty clear that Celebrity wants to move to a higher all inclusive fare structure. Instead of going all the they play games with their pricing structure trying to get people to move in that direction, but not going all the way to that being their price structure.

I see them moving in that direction, too.  In this instance, they’re trying to throw a bigger net and get the “budget” cruiser, too.  With their up level service, it’s difficult for me (outside looking in) to see the logic of going after that part of the cruise pie.   But, I’m guessing they’re taking all potential customers at this point.

 

I will admit, they’re implementation could be cleaned up a bit.  But, I don’t find it nearly as onerous and confusion as some here say it is.  I mean, if you’re a novice cruiser, and really are unfamiliar with how fares and cabin categories are priced and structured, I wouldn’t imagine you’d find your way here, either.

 

But, most here are veteran cruisers.  Whether we want to admit it or not, we know how their systems work for ever changing promos.  Heck, some of us are here at least several times a month (raising my hand) researching our next cruise, or reporting on our current cruise.  

 

We all pretty much know how the fares work.  If anyone is confused, someone here (most everyone here?) will take great pains to explain it.  LOL!