Lost Birth Certificate

[lovebelle]

8 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

@lovebelle, do you have a copy of your birth certificate?  While not ideal, even a copy of your birth certificate might be enough.  While I can only reference what happens on Alaska cruises, when a passenger shows up at the pier without the proper travel ID, they are asked if someone at home could look for and send a electronic photo of the birth certificate to the pier.  Staff prints it out, makes sure it matches the photo ID (married women first & middle names and birth date).  if the birth certificate copy is acceptable to the Check-in Supervisor (or maybe the ship's Documentation Office), then you are allowed to be embarked.

 

The ship, the shoreside staff all want to get you on the ship, as long as they can legally do it.  It is possible that the protocols in Florida could be different than in Seattle, but if you showed up with even  a copy of your birth certificate, your current gov't issued ID, and your expired passport you probably would be allowed to embark.  The flip side is you are denied and you don't receive a refund.

 

Good luck.  Keep us updated.

 

 

I’ve seen these scenarios play out in peoples favor looking at various boards, but with new protocols and stricter guidelines due to Covid, I don’t even want to take a chance. According to my PVP from carnival he basically said not to even risk it and get the proper documents by any means necessary so that’s what I’ll do. Until I have papers in hand I’m going to be extremely anxious, but remaining hopeful. 😬

[vacation luvver]

"i hope as a last resort they can just accept my expired passport and my daughters birth certificate which has my place of birth on it, but I’m not holding my breath on that at all."

 

As many people have advised you, an expired passport will not be accepted.  I was on a cruise when I met a woman who said that she was denied boarding because she mistakenly brought her old expired passport with her, instead of her brand new passport.  She was asked if she had her birth certificate with her, but she didn't.  She joined the cruise a few days later when the ship docked in Puerto Rico.

 

You said that your daughter's birth certificate has your place of birth on it.  When you gave birth to her and filled out the information about yourself, were you required to show them your birth certificate showing your place of birth, or did they just take your word for it that you were born where you said that you were born?  If they took your word for it, then it's meaningless.

 

The cruiselines say that they want birth certificates or current passports.  I don't know of any that say that an expired passport is okay if you bring along your child's birth certificate.

[Ferry_Watcher]

4 hours ago, klfrodo said:

I love it. You are about the closest thing to a Subject Matter Expert on this topic, and nobody responds to you. Keep trying though.

@klfrodoThank you my friend, not an expert, but someone who has check-in hundreds of cruise passengers.  It's amazing the various scenarios we have witnessed regarding documents, visas for foreign passengers, and other wacky things.

One story I will share - we had an elderly couple (80+ yr olds)  and the wife (she was the second wife) couldn't find her birth certificate, so she used the deceased first wife's birth certificate instead.  I guess they thought that no one would question such an elderly couple.  Her first and middle name and birth date on her photo ID didn't match the deceased wife's birth certificate.   Staff at the terminal really do look at the travel documents presented. True story.  People do crazy things!

[chengkp75]

15 hours ago, lovebelle said:

most states offer this but NYC does not. Most agencies are closed until Monday so have to wait til tomorrow to speak to someone. 

Just went through this for DW's birth certificate from NYC, and regardless of what service you use, the roadblock is the Records Office in NYC.  They cannot guarantee less than 4-6 weeks, if I remember correctly.  And, in fact, we were notified weeks later, that because the name on the application did not match the name on the birth certificate, that they couldn't process the application.  

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

@klfrodoThank you my friend, not an expert, but someone who has check-in hundreds of cruise passengers.  It's amazing the various scenarios we have witnessed regarding documents, visas for foreign passengers, and other wacky things.

One story I will share - we had an elderly couple (80+ yr olds)  and the wife (she was the second wife) couldn't find her birth certificate, so she used the deceased first wife's birth certificate instead.  I guess they thought that no one would question such an elderly couple.  Her first and middle name and birth date on her photo ID didn't match the deceased wife's birth certificate.   Staff at the terminal really do look at the travel documents presented. True story.  People do crazy things!

Funny story, please share some more. We can all use some giggles in these pandemic screwed up times.

[sparks1093]

OP, keep looking for a copy of your birth certificate. Does your employer have one on file from when you started or did you provide a copy to someone else for something? I do hope that you are able to get one when you travel to NY, but it's also good to keep looking for alternatives. (An expired passport is still proof of citizenship, only trouble is no one will accept it as such.) Good luck.

[Ferry_Watcher]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Funny story, please share some more. We can all use some giggles in these pandemic screwed up times.

With the new on-line check-in systems, passengers are able to upload their own security photo.  I was checking in an older woman (kinda' fun, out there type) and when I get to her the photo she submitted, I click on it and there she is - unclothed.  LOL, I was so surprised.  I told her I had to retake her photo, and she seemed disappointed.  She turned to the man she was traveling with and remarked that she had taken her photo after a shower.

[lenquixote66]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:34 AM, lovebelle said:

My cruise is 3 weeks away and I decided to gather documents together tonight and noticed my birth certificate is not where it should be. My child and partners BC are right there where mine should be but my documents are missing. I went ahead and ordered a copy from vital statistics in NYC but it’s not guaranteed to get here in time. I do have a passport that expired last year that I was planning on renewing after my cruise. But In the event my BC doesn’t arrive on time, what are my options? Has anyone had success proving citizenship with an expired passport?  

I never had a birth certificate.My mother had a letter from the hospital I was born in stating that she delivered a male child on ………My name is not on it.That sufficed for many years until I needed a passport.I went to the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Manhattan with the letter and several weeks later I had a birth certificate.

[lovebelle]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I never had a birth certificate.My mother had a letter from the hospital I was born in stating that she delivered a male child on ………My name is not on it.That sufficed for many years until I needed a passport.I went to the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Manhattan with the letter and several weeks later I had a birth certificate.

I really they can hand me the birth certificate that day.  Did it take weeks because they had to essentially register your birth? 

[lenquixote66]

Just now, lovebelle said:

I really they can hand me the birth certificate that day.  Did it take weeks because they had to essentially register your birth? 

Yes,they had to register my birth.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, lovebelle said:

I really they can hand me the birth certificate that day.  Did it take weeks because they had to essentially register your birth? 

Their website says that online orders take 2-3 weeks, plus mailing.  Since you don't supply your date of birth, or place of birth when you apply for an appointment, I'm afraid the appointment is merely a face to face version of the online application, and they will still require 2-3 weeks to process.  A lot of this is not computerized, depending on your age.  As I said, it took 3-4 weeks before we received an email notification that they could not fulfill the request for my wife due to name mismatch, so that shows how long it took to process her name in the system.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I never had a birth certificate.My mother had a letter from the hospital I was born in stating that she delivered a male child on ………My name is not on it.That sufficed for many years until I needed a passport.I went to the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Manhattan with the letter and several weeks later I had a birth certificate.

My mother either never had a birth certificate or at least never had a copy of it. She was born in the Ukraine and her parents emigrated when she was still a baby.

 

At some point she needed a passport as my parents wished to travel to Japan. They contacted our local Congresswoman, and she helped cut through the red tape. It probably helped that during World War II she had served in the WAVES (where she met my father who was in the Navy.)

[lenquixote66]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

My mother either never had a birth certificate or at least never had a copy of it. She was born in the Ukraine and her parents emigrated when she was still a baby.

 

At some point she needed a passport as my parents wished to travel to Japan. They contacted our local Congresswoman, and she helped cut through the red tape. It probably helped that during World War II she had served in the WAVES (where she met my father who was in the Navy.)

Neither of my parents ever had birth certificates.My father was born in Poland in 1895.He came to the US in 1913 .I assume he had a passport but I do not believe it was mandatory at that time.

My mother was also born in Poland and came to the US as a baby with her father.However,they both returned to Poland when my father discovered that the streets were not lined with gold .My mother returned years later and she had a passport at the time.

[lovebelle]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Their website says that online orders take 2-3 weeks, plus mailing.  Since you don't supply your date of birth, or place of birth when you apply for an appointment, I'm afraid the appointment is merely a face to face version of the online application, and they will still require 2-3 weeks to process.  A lot of this is not computerized, depending on your age.  As I said, it took 3-4 weeks before we received an email notification that they could not fulfill the request for my wife due to name mismatch, so that shows how long it took to process her name in the system.

I got worried and called today and the people were very helpful. A representative in the office said in most circumstances they can hand the Bc to you the same day. The BC i lost I ordered from vital stats in the past (2006ish) online and so I’m hoping it’s a seemless process this time since they had to process it electronically back then. 

[navybankerteacher]

12 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

... (An expired passport is still proof of citizenship, only trouble is no one will accept it as such.) Good luck.

No - an expired passport is simply indication that the holder once held a valid passport.  Example: someone who previously had a passport who has renounced his citizenship can hardly cancel such renunciation by the mere possession of such scrap paper.  There is good reason why no one will accept an expired passport as proof of anything -- except the fact that the holder hangs onto useless stuff.

[Ferry_Watcher]

11 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Funny story, please share some more. We can all use some giggles in these pandemic screwed up times.

 

Another crazy story (which staff still talks about) is the bride who was left behind. 

 

A couple married off site on the day of their honeymoon cruise. Apparently the post wedding plans included members of the bridal party (or at least the groomsmen) joining the happy couple on the cruise.  The bride was not a US citizen, did not have a green card, and unfortunately was a citizen of a country that needed a Canadian visa - which she did not have.    Since the bride didn't have the Canadian visa she was denied boarding.  Everyone in the terminal knew what was going on because the bridal party were still in their wedding clothes. What did the groom do?  He went on the cruise without his new bride, but with his buddies.  We were dumbfounded to see the groom check in and walk on to the ship without the bride.   To this day we wonder if that marriage lasted.  

[njhorseman]

11 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

except the fact that the holder hangs onto useless stuff

I know I hang on to my expired passports as mementos of my travels...so they're not "useless stuff" to me...and I suspect to many.

[sparks1093]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

No - an expired passport is simply indication that the holder once held a valid passport.  Example: someone who previously had a passport who has renounced his citizenship can hardly cancel such renunciation by the mere possession of such scrap paper.  There is good reason why no one will accept an expired passport as proof of anything -- except the fact that the holder hangs onto useless stuff.

That's probably news to the State Department as this is included in their FAQ (emphasis mine):

Yes, in most cases, we will return the old, canceled passport to you. The old passport may be sent separately from your new passport. We recommend keeping your old passport in a safe place as it is considered proof of your U.S. citizenship.

[sparks1093]

4 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I know I hang on to my expired passports as mementos of my travels...so they're not "useless stuff" to me...and I suspect to many.

And some old passports still have unexpired visas in them so the traveler needs to carry both old and new.

[ontheweb]

14 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Another crazy story (which staff still talks about) is the bride who was left behind. 

 

A couple married off site on the day of their honeymoon cruise. Apparently the post wedding plans included members of the bridal party (or at least the groomsmen) joining the happy couple on the cruise.  The bride was not a US citizen, did not have a green card, and unfortunately was a citizen of a country that needed a Canadian visa - which she did not have.    Since the bride didn't have the Canadian visa she was denied boarding.  Everyone in the terminal knew what was going on because the bridal party were still in their wedding clothes. What did the groom do?  He went on the cruise without his new bride, but with his buddies.  We were dumbfounded to see the groom check in and walk on to the ship without the bride.   To this day we wonder if that marriage lasted.  

My first thought upon reading this was maybe he planned to have a bachelor party while onboard.

 

My second was this is more tragic than actually funny.

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

And some old passports still have unexpired visas in them so the traveler needs to carry both old and new.

Right...I remember being in that situation some years back. I had a visa with a lengthy validity...five or 10 years...but my passport was expiring in the next year so I had to keep the old passport in case I were to travel to that country again.

[Ferry_Watcher]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

My first thought upon reading this was maybe he planned to have a bachelor party while onboard.

 

My second was this is more tragic than actually funny.

The story is sad, and the groom's action is incomprehensible.  It does give readers a snippet of real life behind the scenes at a cruise terminal. 

 

The toughest boarding  denials are the ones that could have been avoided - like cruise passengers not having a passport or their birth certificate. A fair number passengers instead rely (incorrectly) on their own interpretation of the travel ID needed.  They think that just a driver's license, or a Real ID driver's license is all they need.  There isn't a cruise day that doesn't go by that staff has document issues to deal with.  In fact, there is a dedicated team who just works with these passengers helping them deal with initial shock of needing proof of citizenship, accepting that they have to stop arguing that no one told them, and then helping them figure out who back home can help them by finding a copy of their birth certificate.  It's quite the emotional process.  There is joy when the birth certificate copy is electronically sent and accepted, and they embark.  Or, sadness or anger when it doesn't work out and they are denied boarding.  They then have to figure out what to do, where to spend the night, etc.  The worst is when security, or the police need to escort denied passengers out of the terminal at the end of the day.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

That's probably news to the State Department as this is included in their FAQ (emphasis mine):

Yes, in most cases, we will return the old, canceled passport to you. The old passport may be sent separately from your new passport. We recommend keeping your old passport in a safe place as it is considered proof of your U.S. citizenship.

But if the holder is no longer a US citizen how can you claim it to be proof of something which does not exist? 

 

 It would be correct to say only that it COULD be proof that you once were a US citizen -- or are you one of the unthinking crowd who believes that everything contained in some U S Government release is absolutely true, correct and reliable?

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

 ... or are you one of the unthinking crowd who believes that everything contained in some U S Government release is absolutely true, correct and reliable?

 

Oh yes, much better to believe what you read from someone on an Internet forum.  

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

But if the holder is no longer a US citizen how can you claim it to be proof of something which does not exist? 

 

 It would be correct to say only that it COULD be proof that you once were a US citizen -- or are you one of the unthinking crowd who believes that everything contained in some U S Government release is absolutely true, correct and reliable?

You'd have to take that scenario up with the State Department, all I know is what they have on their public website (I believe an expired passport used to be acceptable for the I-9, but I do not think that is the case any longer). I also don't know what is involved in becoming a non-citizen but I do know that there is a process and it isn't an easy one at all. And no, I am not part of the unthinking crowd, I've dealt with enough errors in government databases to know different (but thanks for asking🙂).