Gratuities

[Wineaux007]

1 hour ago, Akkers said:

 

In modern day US a lot of employers are not payingh the minimum legal wage; they expect employees to make that up from tips. Brilliant system!

In a modern and civilised society should we not pay the employees their rightful dues in form of a decent wage?

Yup, keep whipping a dead horse.  😉

[vacationlover_mn]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 AM, Akkers said:

Hmmm....I have never seen a restaurant add a service charge here in the UK. They may do it in the super expensive restuarants in London but never seen it out in the woods.

In normal restaurants you get a menu with the price of each item and thats the price you pay on the bill.

Maybe I have been going to the el-cheapo eateries.

On a related note… I’ve only been to the UK for work.  And, since service was great, and work was picking up the tab, I tipped VERY well.  And, my servers were always shocked 🙂

[SRF]

4 hours ago, Akkers said:

In modern day US a lot of employers are not payingh the minimum legal wage; they expect employees to make that up from tips. Brilliant system!

In a modern and civilised society should we not pay the employees their rightful dues in form of a decent wage?

 

First, they are paid the legal minimum wage.  But there are two different minimum wage levels.  One for tipped positions and one for non-tipped positions.

 

Hmm, would you rather work for a fixed pay no matter what, or a position where you can work a bit harder that others in the same job and make more money?  

 

I recall talking to a waitress in the hotel bar the week after the NCAA Final 4 weekend was in that city.  On one night, she had a party seated in her area that ran up a bar tab of over $2000, and left her a $450 tip.   Hmm, who is low paid?????

[DirtyDawg]

3 hours ago, Wineaux007 said:

Yup, keep whipping a dead horse.  😉

Hold Your Horses!

Yes, this thread is a bunch of Horse Hockey, but 

Wild horses couldn't drag @Akkersaway from this one trick pony thread.

It's their Hobby Horse.

The whipping a dead horse reference will not dissuade @Akkers.

Why? A Nod Is as Good as a Wink to a Blind Horse. 😉

And every Horse Thinks Its Own Pack is the Heaviest. 😁

 

I'm going to follow my Horse Sense and switch over to another thread that's a Horse of a Different Colour! 🐎

 

 

[HBE4]

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Hold Your Horses!

Yes, this thread is a bunch of Horse Hockey, but 

Wild horses couldn't drag @Akkersaway from this one trick pony thread.

It's their Hobby Horse.

The whipping a dead horse reference will not dissuade @Akkers.

Why? A Nod Is as Good as a Wink to a Blind Horse. 😉

And every Horse Thinks Its Own Pack is the Heaviest. 😁

 

I'm going to follow my Horse Sense and switch over to another thread that's a Horse of a Different Colour! 🐎

 

 

 

Stop horsing around. 😄😉

[Ozark_Kid]

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Hold Your Horses!

Yes, this thread is a bunch of Horse Hockey, but 

Wild horses couldn't drag @Akkersaway from this one trick pony thread.

It's their Hobby Horse.

The whipping a dead horse reference will not dissuade @Akkers.

Why? A Nod Is as Good as a Wink to a Blind Horse. 😉

And every Horse Thinks Its Own Pack is the Heaviest. 😁

 

I'm going to follow my Horse Sense and switch over to another thread that's a Horse of a Different Colour! 🐎

 

 

Oh horse feathers.

[chefchick]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:15 AM, billslowsky said:

There have been several posts on other threads with links to how much cruise staff are being paid.  They hire many workers from countries where the cost of living is a small fraction of what they are where the passengers live.

 

What might not appear to be an acceptable wage in a US city may be perfectly fine for the person from another country, and they work to keep their families comfortable, along with personal living conditions provided.  

 

The workers have alternatives.

Yes and those of you who are so offended by tipping culture and/or too cheap to pay what should be a mandatory charge would be the first to complain that the fares have gotten “out of hand” if they rolled those fees into the base fare.   Or maybe you think you have a better way to handle the complicated procedure of dividing the auto gratuities among those who have face time with guests and those who assist behind the scenes?  Because for everyone who removes the auto grats so they can hand out $ to “those who deserve it” has no idea what it takes to run a cruise line as efficiently as they are run by a whole team.

 

Is the current system perfect?  No, probably not, but it’s as fair as it’s going to be for the time being.  Just like you cannot remove port fees or taxes, you shouldn’t remove the auto gratuities.  Tipping additional is completely optional of course, but just as the crew “has alternatives” you as a consumer have alternatives for your vacation money if tipping is just too unfair for you.

[chefchick]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:40 PM, sailor05 said:

Just prepay the gratuities and it will be on the invoice and you can consider it in the "base price" this way if it makes you feel better. 

I’m sorry Sailor (or anyone else who was kind enough to just answer the  alleged original question) the OP has apparently turned this into his or her rant on the injustice of tipping on the consumer 😜

 

And whoever thinks how much money a server in NYC or Seattle makes is in any way relatable to a discussion on salaries for a cruise steward or bartender is beyond me. 

[brillohead]

12 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Hold Your Horses!

Yes, this thread is a bunch of Horse Hockey, but 

Wild horses couldn't drag @Akkersaway from this one trick pony thread.

It's their Hobby Horse.

The whipping a dead horse reference will not dissuade @Akkers.

Why? A Nod Is as Good as a Wink to a Blind Horse. 😉

And every Horse Thinks Its Own Pack is the Heaviest. 😁

 

I'm going to follow my Horse Sense and switch over to another thread that's a Horse of a Different Colour! 🐎

Oh, get off your High Horse already!

[crazyank]

7 hours ago, chefchick said:

Just like you cannot remove port fees or taxes, you shouldn’t remove the auto gratuities.

 

This is nothing more than your personal opinion.  

 

7 hours ago, chefchick said:

Tipping additional is completely optional of course,

Tipping ANYTHING is completely optional. when tips become mandatory they are no longer tips but are service charges.  Tips are for outstanding service,  and while that happens frequently on cruise ships it is not a given.

[DirtyDawg]

15 hours ago, HBE4 said:

Stop horsing around. 😄😉

 

15 hours ago, Ozark_Kid said:

Oh horse feathers.

 

6 hours ago, brillohead said:

Oh, get off your High Horse already!

Just to let everyone know I have taken to heart the augments against tipping and I no longer tip my horse with apples and carrots and such. I now pay him a living wage, provide free health care and even an employer funded pension plan.   

 

I feel that treating my horse with respect 'cements' our relationship. As such, of course, the pension plan is a trip to the sticky, hold-fast lotion 🏭 . 😁

[Akkers]

In this long discussion no-one has been able to convince me why a living wage cannot be paid to an employee and why tipping is necessary.

IMO tipping is pity money and no one should have to stick their hands out for extra cash; they should get a just wage for the work they do.

To the paying customer it should make no difference. If, as now, customer is paying $50 plus $10 tip. Then if you include that in the price of the service then make it $60 on the bill; the customer is still paying same amount.

I also object to these so-called special people who get tips and pocket money without being held accountable for taxes. Why should us ordinary folks pay tax on every single penny we earn but these people can earn hundreds in tips where they do not pay tax. And when was the last time us ordinary folks got a tip off our employers for doing an excellent job?

I think at the end of the day it is a class thing; people like to feel superior by giving a tip rather than paying a fair wage. Just my personal opinion.

[SRF]

9 minutes ago, Akkers said:

In this long discussion no-one has been able to convince me why a living wage cannot be paid to an employee and why tipping is necessary.

IMO tipping is pity money and no one should have to stick their hands out for extra cash; they should get a just wage for the work they do.

To the paying customer it should make no difference. If, as now, customer is paying $50 plus $10 tip. Then if you include that in the price of the service then make it $60 on the bill; the customer is still paying same amount.

I also object to these so-called special people who get tips and pocket money without being held accountable for taxes. Why should us ordinary folks pay tax on every single penny we earn but these people can earn hundreds in tips where they do not pay tax. And when was the last time us ordinary folks got a tip off our employers for doing an excellent job?

I think at the end of the day it is a class thing; people like to feel superior by giving a tip rather than paying a fair wage. Just my personal opinion.

 

Then I guess you have never have had bad service.  Or really great service that you wanted to reward.

 

Without tipping, you will end with with pretty much mediocre service.  Yes, some people will strive to be the best at what they do, but most will only do enough to get by.

 

Tipping is the incentive to do better.  Just like many organizations have a reward program for employees.  Perform above and beyond, you get recognition and some cash.

[Akkers]

SRF - my understanding is that an employer employs a person to a job and to do the job to the best of ability and to a set standard. So if an employee is putting in 60% effort normally and 100% when paid a tip, I as an employer should be worried.

I am not sure about your country but here in the UK you can work your butt off but will never get extra money (or at least its very rare). Some 25 years ago I created something at work that saved £10m for my employer and its allied companies. They used that creation happily but did they give me a pay rise or a promotion? Hell NO!

[goldfish65]

You might like working in a tipped position, if you lived where tipping was the norm.  The extra money is great. Where I work, we report all our tips, so we pay our fair share of taxes. The tips most assuredly do not feel like "pity" money. 

[steveru621]

5 hours ago, Akkers said:

In this long discussion no-one has been able to convince me why a living wage cannot be paid to an employee and why tipping is necessary.

IMO tipping is pity money and no one should have to stick their hands out for extra cash; they should get a just wage for the work they do.

To the paying customer it should make no difference. If, as now, customer is paying $50 plus $10 tip. Then if you include that in the price of the service then make it $60 on the bill; the customer is still paying same amount.

I also object to these so-called special people who get tips and pocket money without being held accountable for taxes. Why should us ordinary folks pay tax on every single penny we earn but these people can earn hundreds in tips where they do not pay tax. And when was the last time us ordinary folks got a tip off our employers for doing an excellent job?

I think at the end of the day it is a class thing; people like to feel superior by giving a tip rather than paying a fair wage. Just my personal opinion.

 

OMG, we are truly back to normal.

 

No one is trying to convince you of anything.  It's different in the US and RCI, you just have to get over it.

 

ALL US employers must pay a minimum wage.  I'm not sure why you think most/many don't pay a minimum wage.  They do, unless just like in the UK they are paid in cash off the books.  You object to not declaring earnings?  We do too.  8% is automatically assumed and since most restaurant bills are paid with a Credit Card the gratuity amount is recorded from the receipt.

 

I haven't met a US bartender and waitstaff that want to do away with gratuities.  Everyone making the same amount is more of a Union thing. The harder you work the more you make.  99% make more in gratuites than your mythical "living wage".  First off, a living wage can't begin to be defined unless you do it by country or even a locality.  By your posts if the cost of living is lower in their country you should be paid LESS!  I've talked to many RCI employees and many make $5,000 US dollars a month and have been with RCI for years.

 

RCI separates gratuities, not so you pay their employees, but to let US citizens who are are used to tipping, a gratuity is already there, you don't have to pay more.

 

 

[The Scurvy Pirate]

Being from the US, my experience related to restaurant service was for a couple of days prior to a cruise in Austrailia, where they do not tip but they get a minimum wage.  In every bar and restaurant the service was terrible.  Slow with the service, slow with drinks and food.  It took 40 forevers to get the bill, as after bringing the food they disappeared.  There is no motivation to flip tables.  So, whether they do one table a night or flip it 3x times, they get the same amount of money.  Again, this was my one experience in a non-tipping situation and your mileage may vary.

[Akkers]

We dont have such a problem in the UK. If a member of staff does not give you good service then we just dont go back. The employers know that and if their staff are underperforming then they have to take action rather than promote a tipping culture. Here a member of staff is employed to do the best and meet certain standards. If they are not flipping tables in a timely manner then it is the employers fault for not maintaining standards. Any employer will know that if standards are not maintained then their business will go down.

I am not sure how and if tips are taxed in other countries but in the UK most tips go straight into pocket without being declared for tax. It is black economy that the Tax authority have never been happy about.

As for cruising, I will head to Virgin and other liners where all costs are included and I know that staff are being paid a fixed fair wage.

btw why is it that RCI bill you for gratuties but then the cleaning staff also leave an envelope in your room on last day asking for tips?

[Tree_skier]

22 minutes ago, Akkers said:

As for cruising, I will head to Virgin and other liners where all costs are included and I know that staff are being paid a fixed fair wage.

It's statements like this that cause people to realize that most of what you say is poppycock.

 

You are going to go with Virgin and pay demonstratively more because of Royal's tipping policy.  That means you are either dumb and lying.  

 

Screen shot of my Dec 11 Allure of the seas invoice.

 

 

Similar time of year, similar cabin, but one less day than my Royal cruise. Notice gratuities are included on my Royal invoice 

 

 

Add $250 for internet on Royal but discount about that amount for the one less day and you have an apples to apples comparison.  

 

So because you don't like the Royal's tipping policy you will go to this line and pay $1000 more.  

 

There may be all kinds of reasons why you may choose Virgin or any other line over Royal but don't blame the tipping policy, that's just disingenuous. 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Tree_skier

[CaroleSS]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:09 PM, steveru621 said:

99% make more in gratuites than your mythical "living wage".  First off, a living wage can't begin to be defined unless you do it by country or even a locality.  By your posts if the cost of living is lower in their country you should be paid LESS! 

 

 

 

 

Ah, the mythical "living wage"! I have asked (repeatedly) and never gotten a straight answer as to exactly how much is a "living wage". 
 

As you point out, that definition depends on location......for some it might be $20,000 and for others it might be $150,000. This is true whether the location is entirely within the US or across the globe. Housing costs differ, living expenses, insurance, etc all play into that equation. 

 

So, @Akkers......please tell us exactly what you feel is a "living wage". Oh and make sure you tell us what someone working on a cruise line would consider a "living wage".....paid in USD......with no tips. (We will forego the discussion of other tipped people as this is a cruising site)

[CILCIANRQTS]

Tipping threads are a form of clean energy/perpetual motion.
Once started, they go on forever entirely on their own!! 😎

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by CILCIANRQTS

[CaroleSS]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:48 AM, Akkers said:

I am not sure about your country but here in the UK you can work your butt off but will never get extra money (or at least its very rare). 

Here in the US you can work your butt off and be compensated quite well! If you aren't, you are free to go to another job where they WILL.

 

Many in the US get a bonus at the end of the year.....based upon their performance and the profitability of the company. A "tip" as you might think of it......not pity money, but a "thank you" for a job well done.

 

maybe you could think of your "tip" as a "thank you" rather than a bribe.

[CaroleSS]

5 minutes ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

Tipping threads are a form of clean energy/perpetual motion.
Once started, they go on forever entirely on their own!! 😎

 

If we could harness that energy (or that of a 2-year old) we could power the world!

[sgmn]

1 hour ago, CaroleSS said:

Ah, the mythical "living wage"! I have asked (repeatedly) and never gotten a straight answer as to exactly how much is a "living wage". 
 

As you point out, that definition depends on location......for some it might be $20,000 and for others it might be $150,000. This is true whether the location is entirely within the US or across the globe. Housing costs differ, living expenses, insurance, etc all play into that equation. 

 

So, @Akkers......please tell us exactly what you feel is a "living wage". Oh and make sure you tell us what someone working on a cruise line would consider a "living wage".....paid in USD......with no tips. (We will forego the discussion of other tipped people as this is a cruising site)

National Living Wage in UK is £9.50

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-national-minimum-wage-in-2022

[steveru621]

7 minutes ago, sgmn said:

National Living Wage in UK is £9.50

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-national-minimum-wage-in-2022

 

 

Wow, $12.45 USD is not a living wage in the US when you can make that much on welfare.

 

Mythical living wage.