do cruise lines give better food on their better ships?

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, nolatravelgirl said:

I probably don't have enough data points but I think itinerary and length of cruise could play into the food. I sailed on the NCL Sun and NCL Sky each doing 3 or 4 night "booze cruises" out of Miami. The food in the buffet really seemed to be limited, especially at lunch time. However, when I sailed on the NCL Spirit (similar sized ship) but on a 12 day Grand Mediterranean voyage and there always seemed to be some sort of special food presentation on the pool deck and the generally nicer food presentation. 

 

Special meals are again driven by standards of the Executive Chef.

 

Another factor is sea days often provide the extra time required for specials; however, this shouldn't be a factor on a Grand Meddy, which is usually port intensive.

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

While cruise lines may work hard to create consistency across the fleet it there are human factors that cannot be overcome.  Yes, they can have menus designed at the home office and, in theory, all the ships get similar supplies.  But the final product depends a lot on each ship's Executive Chef, Sous Chef, senior cooks, etc.

 

Consistency of food served from ship to ship was better when a cruise line did not have so many ships, in my opinion.  HAL was an example of that.  

 

It is a fact (I have heard a few Executive Chefs say this during Behind the Scenes Tours) that there are standard menus and recipes that come from the home office.  Each Executive Chef, though, does have the freedom to tweak the recipes as they wish.  (My experience:  some are better "twekers" than others.)  

 

I wonder if that "freedom" applies to how a dish is supposed to appear.  (As you know, I am sure, photos of the dishes that are on the menu are posted in the Galley and the food served is supposed to look like that in the photos.)  

[nolatravelgirl]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Special meals are again driven by standards of the Executive Chef.

 

Another factor is sea days often provide the extra time required for specials; however, this shouldn't be a factor on a Grand Meddy, which is usually port intensive.

I think you are misinterpreting my point. I believe that recipes are the same but there seemed to nicer and more diverse offerings on the Spirit. For example on the Sun/Sky the MDR lunch never changed AT ALL but yet on my Breakaway cruise a few months ago there was a variety of items everyday on the MDR lunch. Also on the Sun/Sky the buffet seemed to mainly have the basics such as chicken tenders, burgers, fries etc but there were less specialty items such as paella received on the Spirit. The burger and chicken tenders were of the same quality across the ships but there were definitely more selection of gourmet offerings on the Spirit.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, nolatravelgirl said:

I think you are misinterpreting my point. I believe that recipes are the same but there seemed to nicer and more diverse offerings on the Spirit. For example on the Sun/Sky the MDR lunch never changed AT ALL but yet on my Breakaway cruise a few months ago there was a variety of items everyday on the MDR lunch. Also on the Sun/Sky the buffet seemed to mainly have the basics such as chicken tenders, burgers, fries etc but there were less specialty items such as paella received on the Spirit. The burger and chicken tenders were of the same quality across the ships but there were definitely more selection of gourmet offerings on the Spirit.

 

Affirmative, cruise lines have standard recipes, but the Executive Chef has the ability to tweak.

 

When it comes to the menus, the Executive Chefs have some discretion to include additional items.  They have an overall cost per person to meet, but some can better manage waste and other factors, so they can include more gourmet items, within the same budget. 

[BruceMuzz]

Excellent question, and generally good answers.

The question that was not asked was, “Is food quality the same on all itineraries for the same cruise line?”

The answer is “No”.

In most cases,  the head office sets the menu cycles and food cost budgets for each ship on each itinerary. These menu cycles and daily feeding budgets can vary significantly from one itinerary to another - even on the same ship, with the same Chef.

Edited June 8, 2022 by BruceMuzz

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

In most cases,  the head office sets the menu cycles and food cost budgets for each ship on each itinerary. These menu cycles and daily feeding budgets can vary significantly from one itinerary to another - even on the same ship, with the same Chef.

 

Not surprised at this and you are confirming what I have learned during my Behind the Scenes Tours.  But, the fluctuation of quality.....?  

 

Are you saying that a pallet of fruit arrives at the dock, the Executive Chef and/or Food and Beverage Manager examines it, rejects it as being inferior for one itinerary?  But, on the the ship's next itinerary sailing from that port, a pallet of fruit that would have been rejected on the previous sailing would be accepted?  

[jocap]

Perhaps passenger make-up and destination may have some effect? 

On a fairly long winter cruise from the UK to the Caribbean and back again, with mainly older passengers and only five children on board, even the buffet food seemed of a very high standard.

We became friendly with the buffet's head chef, and he was telling us about his next cruise- a four day February one in the cold North Sea, during half term, with 900 children on board. 

He said every meal would have to include a mountain of chips (fries), fish fingers, chicken nuggets, burgers etc, followed by the stickiest puddings available. 😄

 

[XBGuy]

1 hour ago, jocap said:

Perhaps passenger make-up and destination may have some effect? 

On a fairly long winter cruise from the UK to the Caribbean and back again, with mainly older passengers and only five children on board, even the buffet food seemed of a very high standard.

We became friendly with the buffet's head chef, and he was telling us about his next cruise- a four day February one in the cold North Sea, during half term, with 900 children on board. 

He said every meal would have to include a mountain of chips (fries), fish fingers, chicken nuggets, burgers etc, followed by the stickiest puddings available. 😄

 

 

A very interesting comment.  I'd never considered that aspect.  

[Spif Barwunkel]

Indeed, quite the thought-provoking question. Responses to the OP’s question are fascinating and variations on those answers are quite intriguing. I submit that there is only one dynamic that brings all of these responses together, and, whether or not they are mutually responsible is solely dependent on that dynamic.

 

That dynamic, of course, is the passengers. Consciously or not, do we expect better food on a newer ship, a bigger/smaller ship, a different class of ship, a revolutionized ship? By the way, none of those designations indicates a better ship. That of course would not affect our taste buds, our appetite or our mood at eating time but perhaps it fragments our overall mindset including pre-conceived notions when we sit down at the table. Add to that, server recommendations, if any, and reactions and comments from fellow guests during the meal.

 

Whereas there can certainly be variations on preparations in the kitchen and not all meals will seem supreme, there are no attempts by cruise lines to purposely present “haute cuisine” on some ships while denying other ships in the fleet the same opportunity. Better food on better ships is a misnomer no matter how one defines “better” ships.        

[BruceMuzz]

On 6/9/2022 at 5:45 AM, rkacruiser said:

 

Not surprised at this and you are confirming what I have learned during my Behind the Scenes Tours.  But, the fluctuation of quality.....?  

 

Are you saying that a pallet of fruit arrives at the dock, the Executive Chef and/or Food and Beverage Manager examines it, rejects it as being inferior for one itinerary?  But, on the the ship's next itinerary sailing from that port, a pallet of fruit that would have been rejected on the previous sailing would be accepted?  

No, I am not saying that at all.

Ships know what their feeding budget (for crew and pax) is going to be many months before a sailing. They must have this information to allow them to place their food and beverage orders months before the sailing in order to more or less guarantee receiving the goods in time.

The Corporate F&B People have forecasted a feeding budget based on itinerary, number of sea days, country where the provisioning will take place, menu cycle being used, number of children expected, number of repeat cruisers expected, average price paid for the cruise, special groups onboard, time of year, and many other factors.

Then the Exec Chef, F&B Director, Controller, Hotel Manager get together and guess - based on all the information they have - how many chickens the Chef will serve during that cruise, how many lobster tails will be needed, how many jars of peanut butter will be consumed. Once that is determined, they compare the cost of all that food against the budget sent to them by the head office. If they are under or near that budget, all is good. If they think they will go over, then menus need to change, and alternate quality (and price) items must be ordered.

Most cruise ships have very limited storage space for food. There is very little of anything extra" lying around". Chefs often get very creative when their best guesses went wrong and they must improvise.

Last resort is local purchasing - which most corporate F&B people get very upset about.

[rkacruiser]

13 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

number of repeat cruisers expected, 

 

Thank you for your detailed reply.  I continue to learn.  I am surprised that the number of repeat cruisers is a factor that is considered.  I would think this would be a rather small factor in the what and how much to order equation.  

[BruceMuzz]

11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Thank you for your detailed reply.  I continue to learn.  I am surprised that the number of repeat cruisers is a factor that is considered.  I would think this would be a rather small factor in the what and how much to order equation.  

Frequent repeaters are not too big a factor on some ships and cruise lines.

But on some lines, they can be problematic.

Companies with very high volume repeaters know that these people rarely go ashore, and almost never buy a shore excursion. They are onboard for EVERY meal. This factor can have a negative effect on food budgets.

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Frequent repeaters are not too big a factor on some ships and cruise lines.

But on some lines, they can be problematic.

Companies with very high volume repeaters know that these people rarely go ashore, and almost never buy a shore excursion. They are onboard for EVERY meal. This factor can have a negative effect on food budgets.

We resemble those remarks :).  It is true that there are quite a few seasoned cruisers who will choose to stay aboard when in some ports.   When I was young and started cruising (back in the 70s) I used to wonder about those "weird" passengers that did not get off the ship.  DW and I are now those "weird" passengers.  Port days are actually the best time to be aboard since nothing is crowded, it is relatively quiet, service is good, etc.  And when you have a drink package this can also contribute to one's happiness.

 

We have an upcoming 14 day MSC cruise where we will be in the Yacht Club which essentially makes the cruise all-inclusive.  Our thinking is that we will likely not get off the ship at any of the Caribbean ports other than Ocean Cay.  When it comes to those islands, "been there done that" dozens of times.  Unlike most cruise lines, MSC actually operates their Yacht Club dining room for lunch on port days.  It is nice sitting down to lunch in a restaurant where there are several waiters for each diner 🙂

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Companies with very high volume repeaters know that these people rarely go ashore, and almost never buy a shore excursion. They are onboard for EVERY meal. This factor can have a negative effect on food budgets.

 

I am going to attempt to make a new joke for a CD on those cruise lines.

 

"Please go ashore at St. ........ and enjoy a nice lunch.  You will help our Executive Chef stay within his budget."  😀

 

(Is there a future for me as a comedian?)  👍    or    👎   ?

 

[ldubs]

15 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Frequent repeaters are not too big a factor on some ships and cruise lines.

But on some lines, they can be problematic.

Companies with very high volume repeaters know that these people rarely go ashore, and almost never buy a shore excursion. They are onboard for EVERY meal. This factor can have a negative effect on food budgets.

 

Oh man.  Now I'm going to feel kind of guilty when I have that second cup of coffee (along with the second slice of cake).  😃

[nolatravelgirl]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:08 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

Affirmative, cruise lines have standard recipes, but the Executive Chef has the ability to tweak.

 

When it comes to the menus, the Executive Chefs have some discretion to include additional items.  They have an overall cost per person to meet, but some can better manage waste and other factors, so they can include more gourmet items, within the same budget. 

I am not sure why you believe you are the absolute authority. The budget per person/per day on food is almost certainly lower when on shorter booze cruise type sailings than on specialty sailings that have a greater per night cost. People don't go on 3/4 night sailings for $349 per person (less than $100 per night for room and board) and expect gourmet meals as opposed to those who are spending for Med itineraries which are easily north of $200 per night for room and board)

[tip]

Me darling wife and I have sailed on thirty-two cruises from six different cruise lines.  Strangely enough the best food was found on a tiny  old 1950's vintage Italian cruise ship which was owned at the time by the now defunct "Premier" cruise line.

 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, nolatravelgirl said:

I am not sure why you believe you are the absolute authority. The budget per person/per day on food is almost certainly lower when on shorter booze cruise type sailings than on specialty sailings that have a greater per night cost. People don't go on 3/4 night sailings for $349 per person (less than $100 per night for room and board) and expect gourmet meals as opposed to those who are spending for Med itineraries which are easily north of $200 per night for room and board)

 

At no time have I ever stated I am the "Absolute Authority", but with almost 40 years at sea and about 30 yrs in command of passenger vessels, I know a little about ship operations and budgets.

 

At no time did I mention the cost per days, since I am no longer privy to that information. Yes, I concur on mainstream mega ships the victuals budget is probably less for very short cruises than longer cruises.

 

However, regardless of the actual budget, the point I made was that some Executive Chefs can provide a better standard within the same budget. I have seen this many times, both working and as a pax.

[njhorseman]

18 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

However, regardless of the actual budget, the point I made was that some Executive Chefs can provide a better standard within the same budget. I have seen this many times, both working and as a pax.

I couldn't agree more . I've been on a number of cruises where the executive chef changed mid cruise and there was an almost immediate noticeable change in the quality of the food served...sometimes for the better, and sometimes worse.

[ldubs]

24 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

At no time have I ever stated I am the "Absolute Authority", but with almost 40 years at sea and about 30 yrs in command of passenger vessels, I know a little about ship operations and budgets.

 

At no time did I mention the cost per days, since I am no longer privy to that information. Yes, I concur on mainstream mega ships the victuals budget is probably less for very short cruises than longer cruises.

 

However, regardless of the actual budget, the point I made was that some Executive Chefs can provide a better standard within the same budget. I have seen this many times, both working and as a pax.

 

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I couldn't agree more . I've been on a number of cruises where the executive chef changed mid cruise and there was an almost immediate noticeable change in the quality of the food served...sometimes for the better, and sometimes worse.

 

I'm going to side track just a little.  I'm guessing most if not all executive chefs are culinary college grads.  Out of pure curiosity, I wonder if any of them worked their way up to that position through the cruise ship ranks?

[Heidi13]

27 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I'm going to side track just a little.  I'm guessing most if not all executive chefs are culinary college grads.  Out of pure curiosity, I wonder if any of them worked their way up to that position through the cruise ship ranks?

 

I've met both - a few have worked up at least part of the ladder, but also have formal training. Many are hired right into the Executive Chef position.

 

Just another example of how the industry has changed. Back in my deep-sea days, to work as a Captain, you had to start with the company as a cadet and work up. Now they will hire Captains off the street.

[Essiesmom]

10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I've met both - a few have worked up at least part of the ladder, but also have formal training. Many are hired right into the Executive Chef position.

 

Just another example of how the industry has changed. Back in my deep-sea days, to work as a Captain, you had to start with the company as a cadet and work up. Now they will hire Captains off the street.

Or off another cruise line

[SmoothFlying]

2 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

Or off another cruise line

I hope (and I mean this from the bottom of my heart) that the United States Navy NEVER stoops (as a sign of being 'progressive') to this... And, hopefully IF the cruise industry does, there is some qualifications a prospective captain would have to meet to be considered for such a demanding position. The middle of an winter Nor' eastener is no place for the ship's staff to find out their newly minted Captain doesn't have a clue about what he's doing.

 

Mac

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, SmoothFlying said:

hope (and I mean this from the bottom of my heart) that the United States Navy NEVER stoops (as a sign of being 'progressive') to this..

 

There are many good reasons to question the actions of some in our government, but, I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would put a Master at the helm of a multi-billion dollar vessel.  But, I wonder if our Navy is experiencing what I have experienced with the Masters of some cruise ships being younger than they once were.

 

18 hours ago, ldubs said:

 I'm guessing most if not all executive chefs are culinary college grads.  Out of pure curiosity, I wonder if any of them worked their way up to that position through the cruise ship ranks?

 

Thanks for asking an excellent question.  Interesting to read Heidi13's response.

 

18 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I've been on a number of cruises where the executive chef changed mid cruise and there was an almost immediate noticeable change in the quality of the food served...sometimes for the better, and sometimes worse.

 

I have experienced this as well.  The really noticeable change that I experienced was in wine service on a Noordam Caribbean sailing out of New York.  Wine service was excellent; stewards friendly and were knowledgeable.  Mid-cruise, a Head Sommelier came aboard.  She must have intimidated them because the service became more less friendly and "stiff".  

[BruceMuzz]

On 6/15/2022 at 7:01 AM, nolatravelgirl said:

I am not sure why you believe you are the absolute authority. The budget per person/per day on food is almost certainly lower when on shorter booze cruise type sailings than on specialty sailings that have a greater per night cost. People don't go on 3/4 night sailings for $349 per person (less than $100 per night for room and board) and expect gourmet meals as opposed to those who are spending for Med itineraries which are easily north of $200 per night for room and board)

There is another very important aspect of menu planning / feeding budget projecting that most cruisers overlook. As soon as I explain, you will recognize it.

Most cruisers - inexperienced or not - cannot wait to get onboard and start eating. All that food available, and most of it at no extra charge. On any length of cruise, food consumption is by far the highest for the first 3 days of the voyage. Some passengers want to “eat their money’s worth”. Others just cannot resist the variety of foods available.

Regardless of the reasons for the high consumption, cruise lines tend to put out large volume, relatively low value food items for those first 3 days. 

All the punters stuff their pie-holes for those first 3 days.

On Day 4, many wake up and realize that if they continue eating at this pace, they may not survive to the end of the cruise. Nearly everybody, it seems, decides to go on a diet on Day 4.

Day 4 is usually when the Chef starts to get serious with menu and buffet items. He can offer pricier, higher quality foods, and still have an overall lower consumption and lower cost.

 

Those of you going on a 3-day “booze cruise” are not going to see many of those better food items.

Edited June 16, 2022 by BruceMuzz