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Carnival Cruise Line to Bring Costa Venezia to the U.S. In 2023, Costa Firenze in 2024


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Posted (edited)

I actually don't think we'll see a whole lot of ship dancing because of this. I suspect with. one to New York, one to Long Beahch - this is likely intended as all incremental business out of North America.

Edited by tidecat
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2 hours ago, Alexintheboro said:

Makes me think that Costa Venezia will Sail out of New York full time instead of seasonally.

 

They may move Radiance to the East Coast and keep Panorama on the West Coast, once Costa Firenze comes into Service as Carnival has done extensive work to build up the Long Beach Terminals.

Full time or even a longer season would be wonderful.

 

Laura

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This is interesting news when thinking about the Carnival corp as a whole.  I believe that Costa only has 10 ships now and this will take them down to eight.  Someone can correct me if that's not correct.  This certainly gives more credence to the speculation about the corporation and the Costa brand.

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13 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

This is interesting news when thinking about the Carnival corp as a whole.  I believe that Costa only has 10 ships now and this will take them down to eight.  Someone can correct me if that's not correct.  This certainly gives more credence to the speculation about the corporation and the Costa brand.

Actually, they'll be going from 13 to 10:

 

Fortuna, Magica

Serena, Favolisa, Fascinosa, Pacifica

Deliziosa, (Luminosa)

Diadema

(Venezia, Firenze)

Smeralda, Toscana

 

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Aren’t there two more Vista class ships being built for the Carnival China division? I’d be willing to bet if those are still under construction, they end up being transferred to Carnival before they get too far with the construction. 
 

I think Carnival could take delivery of the two additional Vista class ships and at that point, either send Venezia and Firenze back to Costa with very little conversions depending on European demand, or keep Venezia and Firenze with Carnival long-term and renovate them to bring them in line with Carnival standards at that time. 
 

I don’t see this as a long-term solution either way. I believe Carnival is just buying time and filling current demands as they see profitable, with minimal investment involved. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, mattcj89 said:

Aren’t there two more Vista class ships being built for the Carnival China division? I’d be willing to bet if those are still under construction, they end up being transferred to Carnival before they get too far with the construction. 
 

I think Carnival could take delivery of the two additional Vista class ships and at that point, either send Venezia and Firenze back to Costa with very little conversions depending on European demand, or keep Venezia and Firenze with Carnival long-term and renovate them to bring them in line with Carnival standards at that time. 
 

I don’t see this as a long-term solution either way. I believe Carnival is just buying time and filling current demands as they see profitable, with minimal investment involved. 

Those ships are currently being built in China for CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping aka Carnival China. These ships when completed will be China flagged and are meant for China only. This and that this project is part of a partnership makes it very unlikely that these ships will be moved to a sister cruise line.  These ships will likely be the ships that Carnival China will use whenever China decides to open back up. The Venezia and Firenze are Italian built ships, which is the big difference with the two currently undergoing construction.

Edited by ch09
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10 minutes ago, ch09 said:

Those ships are currently being built in China for CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping aka Carnival China. These ships when completed will be China flagged and are meant for China only. This and that this project is part of a partnership makes it very unlikely that these ships will be moved to a sister cruise line.  These ships will likely be the ships that Carnival China will use whenever China decides to open back up. The Venezia and Firenze are Italian built ships, which is the big difference with the two currently undergoing construction.

 

Venezia and Firenze were also built and designed originally for the China market as well, I believe Venezia made it over there briefly and Firenze did not and both were then added back to the main fleet. 

 

17 minutes ago, mattcj89 said:

Aren’t there two more Vista class ships being built for the Carnival China division? I’d be willing to bet if those are still under construction, they end up being transferred to Carnival before they get too far with the construction. 
 

I think Carnival could take delivery of the two additional Vista class ships and at that point, either send Venezia and Firenze back to Costa with very little conversions depending on European demand, or keep Venezia and Firenze with Carnival long-term and renovate them to bring them in line with Carnival standards at that time. 
 

I don’t see this as a long-term solution either way. I believe Carnival is just buying time and filling current demands as they see profitable, with minimal investment involved. 

Those are owned by the joint venture, along with Costa Atlantica & Mediterranea so that may not be an option, but I guess we will hear about that soon enough.

 

This also gives Costa an unique opportunity to come back to the North American market again, they haven't sailed from a US homeport in several years and would be able to keep a ship on this side and have it turned back over to Costa if they choose to do so. MSC is quickly growing business on this side and recently announced sailing year round from NYC, pushing Venezia in NYC may swing people away from MSC. 

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2 hours ago, tntornadox said:

I really like this idea. I've wanted to try Costa for awhile now but they left US shores a few years ago and haven't returned. But the idea of being on a Costa ship with a Carnival crew is VERY intriguing for me. As has been posted, these are new, beautifully designed ships so mixing that with the fun of Carnival will be very interesting to watch. Even though selfishly I wish one of these was coming to Florida and sailing the Caribbean, I will travel to sail on one for the unique opportunity. I kinda feel like this is a reaction to MSC's growing presence here.

 

Beyond that, there is mention of a drydock before the handover. I doubt they'll change much but I can definitely see some of the 'Fun Ship' eateries being added to appeal more to the US taste and market. Otherwise, I say leave them as they are! Following closely.

My two cents...

 

Carnival is moving these ships that are arguably nicer than your run of the mill Carnival ship to the two largest cities in the country.  It's similar to airlines that offer a premium product out of and in between New York/LA, where people are willing to pay a premium price.

 

I'm thinking the "COSTA by CARNIVAL" will end up being a "brand within a brand" type of thing, offering a more upscale version of a Carnival cruise, but keeping the things we love and dialing it up a notch!  Especially with the loyalty programs being all in one, I see it as an awesome option!

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1 minute ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

 

Venezia and Firenze were also built and designed originally for the China market as well, I believe Venezia made it over there briefly and Firenze did not and both were then added back to the main fleet. 

 

Those are owned by the joint venture, along with Costa Atlantica & Mediterranea so that may not be an option, but I guess we will hear about that soon enough.

 

This also gives Costa an unique opportunity to come back to the North American market again, they haven't sailed from a US homeport in several years and would be able to keep a ship on this side and have it turned back over to Costa if they choose to do so. MSC is quickly growing business on this side and recently announced sailing year round from NYC, pushing Venezia in NYC may swing people away from MSC. 

Yes. They were built for the Chinese market, but more comparable to the RCL and Princess ships that can be easily turned around and be redeployed to other markets when the needs arise. There are more hurdles to clear to move the unfinished ships to other markets. Carnival would likely have to buy them outright from the partnership and the hulls likely require heavier modifications to move them to the US market to meet regulations. This is the problem that the Global Dream is currently having in finding a buyer.

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3 hours ago, tidecat said:

I'd be more curious to see if any Vista-class ships wind up doing shorter cruises, much like one of the Oasis-class ships for Royal is currently doing.

Looking at the pricing (i.e.  few deals) there seems to be strong domestic US demand outside of Miami for seven day and up cruises on the newer Carnival ships.  The prices on the 2-5 day runs are low.   I would factor in the hassle factor for pre trip screening and gasoline costs.  I'm not sure they have unlimited demand in the Med and that season is short.  It sounds like some product tweaks may be needed for the market.   

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Thinking about the fleet overall:

 

By the end of this year, Carnival will have retired 6 Fantasy class ships since 2020.

 

By the end of 2024 they will have been replaced by:

 

3 Excell class ships

3 Costa transfers (2 Vista class, 1 Spirit class-ish).

 

They also completed the Carnival Radiance conversion.  So if they don't scrap anymore ships, they'll find themselves with the same number of hulls in the Carnival fleet, but with a ton more berths and a lot newer as well.  Not too bad of an overhaul in this financial environment. 

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I feel like this is a way of making the Costa Brand a worldwide brand while also having a way of taking some of that market from NCL and Royal Caribbean. The Costa ships while the same style of ships currently in the fleet offer a different on board experience. If this can bring people over who may not necessarily be interested in the family and fun that Carnival ships offer but at a lower price point than RCL and NCL then its a new demographic opened up. 

 

As the Brand familiarity becomes bigger in the US it also allows for easier marketing of European cruises. The European market is not going to be hurt with P&O and Aida being under the umbrella. 

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4 hours ago, Beezo said:

I disagree, respectfully 🙂.  I don't think you are going to see Costa absorbed into Carnival.

 

I think they are feeling the pressure from MSC Cruises.  They now have multiple ships based in the US market.  MSC Cruises focuses on Italian-style cruising, no matter where the ship is in the world.

 

Rather than build out the Costa brand to Americans, it's easier to position it as Costa by Carnival.  It will have the Italian style but catered to Americans.

 

Interesting move indeed...


Right, I see this as absorbing the brand.

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13 minutes ago, da_v said:

I feel like this is a way of making the Costa Brand a worldwide brand while also having a way of taking some of that market from NCL and Royal Caribbean. The Costa ships while the same style of ships currently in the fleet offer a different on board experience. If this can bring people over who may not necessarily be interested in the family and fun that Carnival ships offer but at a lower price point than RCL and NCL then its a new demographic opened up. 

 

As the Brand familiarity becomes bigger in the US it also allows for easier marketing of European cruises. The European market is not going to be hurt with P&O and Aida being under the umbrella. 

Agreed, if they want to compete with MSC, it's a smart move. MSC is also expected to start year round NYC service in April 2023. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:


Right, I see this as absorbing the brand.

 

I think I sort of agree.

 

Carnival is attempting to reduce operating costs.  No sense in maintaining two separate identities from top to bottom when the customer only really cares about the ship's identity.  Costa could easily go on appearing exactly as it it, but all the shore side operations be moved to Carnival.  

 

On the plus side, if they fully integrate the loyalty programs from both brands, it would likely help keep Carnival cruisers from going to MSC if/when they select European cruises. (And European cruisers would have a reason to chose Carnival for their North American cruises.). Feels like a win/win for the consumer and the company if they head that direction.

Edited by Indytraveler83
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Carnival back to NY full time?? That would be nice. More ships in NY with msc Addig as well should help prices across all lines as well as give us all more options. 
hope they keep the ship here. 
 

Is there a dome over the pool on the ship?? 

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4 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

Looking at the deck plans they are going to have to add a pool and hot tubs to create a "Havana " experience or an Italian equivalent on deck 5 aft  to make me want to sail on them, and New York is our home port. 😎


The Venice experience. We can ride around a lazy river in gondolas.

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Ship looks as different to the carnival brand as it could. Main pool has a dome - perfect for winter cruising. Norwegian is bringing Prima to NY for spring 23, oasis comes in May, MSC -?? Ship - This ship may me what carnival needs in NY. But please leave for the winter!!! 

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I also wonder if Carnival have made a move for the defunct Global ships from Genting? 1 large ship just sitting in Asia and 1 being built both designed for the Asian Market. Why cater an existing ship when there is 1 1/2 already in place which can probably be picked up at a discounted rate. 

 

That then leaves the option of 2 vista class ships which can be made for the American/Europe market which allows for retirement/re-deploying of some of the older Triumph/Conquest class?

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9 minutes ago, da_v said:

I also wonder if Carnival have made a move for the defunct Global ships from Genting? 1 large ship just sitting in Asia and 1 being built both designed for the Asian Market. Why cater an existing ship when there is 1 1/2 already in place which can probably be picked up at a discounted rate. 

 

That then leaves the option of 2 vista class ships which can be made for the American/Europe market which allows for retirement/re-deploying of some of the older Triumph/Conquest class?

A&K Travel bought two of the Crystal ships at auction and may not stop there.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, da_v said:

I also wonder if Carnival have made a move for the defunct Global ships from Genting? 1 large ship just sitting in Asia and 1 being built both designed for the Asian Market. Why cater an existing ship when there is 1 1/2 already in place which can probably be picked up at a discounted rate. 

 

 

 

One Genting to be sold the 1/2 is being scrapped.

 

https://eturbonews.com/genting-hong-kongs-unfinished-mega-cruise-ship-to-be-sold-for-scrap/

Edited by Charles4515
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, da_v said:

I also wonder if Carnival have made a move for the defunct Global ships from Genting? 1 large ship just sitting in Asia and 1 being built both designed for the Asian Market. Why cater an existing ship when there is 1 1/2 already in place which can probably be picked up at a discounted rate. 

 

That then leaves the option of 2 vista class ships which can be made for the American/Europe market which allows for retirement/re-deploying of some of the older Triumph/Conquest class?

They have not, the last rumors I heard were either the former owner's family (who just restarted Resorts World Cruises, to replace Dream) or MSC was the other in the running for the one that is about 80% complete, and the other being scrapped (as said above)

 

Plus they still have the joint venture with China, which holds the two Costa Spirit Class, and two Vista new builds. Should cruising not resume they could buy them outright but that could be tricky but they will have to make a decision on those 4 sooner rather than later.

Edited by CruiseAdict218
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