Unusual/unpopular opinions

[Hlitner]

DW and I actually prefer cabins forward of the forward elevators.  Having cruised extensively for about 50 years we are well aware of the stability offered by more central cabins (especially on lower decks) and the popularity of aft cabins (which we strongly dislike).  Most cruisers do not like forward cabins because they will have more movement if in rough waters.  So why do we like cabins up near the bow?  Consider that the main engines of any ship are arrayed around mid-ship.  On some ships, living over the engines can result is some annoying vibration but most modern ships have done a good job isolating engine noise and vibration.  The center of the ship is where you will have the most foot traffic (in the corridors) and you will generally pay the highest prices.  Some folks love the aft cabins, but these can suffer from a "shimmy" due to their location near the props. vibration from the props and cavitation, and possible soot on the balconies (which can ruin swim wear and clothes.  

 

Meanwhile, forward of the forward elevators you have much less foot traffic since most of the eating venues are aft.  There are also very few major mechanical systems on the forward quarter of the ship (with the exception of the bow thrusters) so we generally find the forward cabins very quiet except when the thrusters are in use.  Keep in mind that thrusters are only used when entering ports/docking and debarking.  Up front you might also hear the anchor chain if the ship is dropping or raising its anchor, but that does not generally happen during sleep time.

 

Hank

[pris993]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

DW and I actually prefer cabins forward of the forward elevators.  Having cruised extensively for about 50 years we are well aware of the stability offered by more central cabins (especially on lower decks) and the popularity of aft cabins (which we strongly dislike).  Most cruisers do not like forward cabins because they will have more movement if in rough waters.  So why do we like cabins up near the bow?  Consider that the main engines of any ship are arrayed around mid-ship.  On some ships, living over the engines can result is some annoying vibration but most modern ships have done a good job isolating engine noise and vibration.  The center of the ship is where you will have the most foot traffic (in the corridors) and you will generally pay the highest prices.  Some folks love the aft cabins, but these can suffer from a "shimmy" due to their location near the props. vibration from the props and cavitation, and possible soot on the balconies (which can ruin swim wear and clothes.  

 

Meanwhile, forward of the forward elevators you have much less foot traffic since most of the eating venues are aft.  There are also very few major mechanical systems on the forward quarter of the ship (with the exception of the bow thrusters) so we generally find the forward cabins very quiet except when the thrusters are in use.  Keep in mind that thrusters are only used when entering ports/docking and debarking.  Up front you might also hear the anchor chain if the ship is dropping or raising its anchor, but that does not generally happen during sleep time.

 

Hank

Agree Hank, we booked in the same location for years.  Only recently with my DH 90, he does not like to walk so far are we booking mid forward, more toward the mid.    Only noise I recall in the forward location is if we were in a storm, would hear the waves slapping the ship at night, but never found wave action more than we could deal with comfortably on new ships.  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, pris993 said:

Agree Hank, we booked in the same location for years.  Only recently with my DH 90, he does not like to walk so far are we booking mid forward, more toward the mid.    Only noise I recall in the forward location is if we were in a storm, would hear the waves slapping the ship at night, but never found wave action more than we could deal with comfortably on new ships.  

Generally agree --except for notion of movement in rough waters.   Because forward cabins are never over the bow - often 100 or more feet aft, while aft facing cabins are as far aft as possible, the effect of ships pitch are as likely to be felt in aft as in forward cabins. 

[pris993]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Generally agree --except for notion of movement in rough waters.   Because forward cabins are never over the bow - often 100 or more feet aft, while aft facing cabins are as far aft as possible, the effect of ships pitch are as likely to be felt in aft as in forward cabins. 

I am sure you are right, have heard folks say they did not want to be forward because of the fear of wave action, guess from what you are saying this is a false fear.   Know we never experienced anything that was bad even in a storm.   Thanks for the info.

[Elvis1209]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:08 PM, Smmessineo said:

My husband and I smoke cigars and appreciate having nice place to relax, drink and smoke. Outdoors is fine !  We fully understand that indoor smoking in casinos or lounges can  be overwhelming, and that is unfair to nonsmokers. 

But if I'm outside on deck in a designated smoking area that you can easily avoid, don't be that obnoxious person who comments or fake coughs or glares at me as you walk by.  

Unfortunately, there will always be someone that has to put on a show!  There is nothing I like to do on a cruise more than smoke a cigar and sip a cognac.  We are a dying breed!  The smoking Gestapo are coming to get us!  They are taking away our lounges, how long will it be before they take away our outdoor smoking areas?

 

Elvis

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Elvis1209

[momofmeg]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:50 PM, lenquixote66 said:

How about not cruising till Covid is eradicated.

Then you may as well say you will never again. It is here to stay just like the flu. My husband and I flew all the way to England this summer and took a British Isles cruise.  Neither of us got COVID but a month later him and my daughter got it when they went to Disneyworld.  

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Generally agree --except for notion of movement in rough waters.   Because forward cabins are never over the bow - often 100 or more feet aft, while aft facing cabins are as far aft as possible, the effect of ships pitch are as likely to be felt in aft as in forward cabins. 

Except that you disregard the shape of the hull at bow and stern.  The bow has "flare", where it widens dramatically above the waterline.  This is done for a purpose, so that as the bow enters a wave, there is more volume in the bow to provide more buoyancy, to raise the bow above the wave.  The stern, on the other hand, has a relatively flat surface at the waterline (especially for azipod ships), that when forced down by the bow rising, presents more surface area to the water, and therefore requires more force to move the stern an equivalent amount as the bow.  The ship will pitch around the center of buoyancy, which is aft of midships, so the moment arm that an aft cabin experiences is shorter than a forward one, and hence moves less distance vertically.

[DirtyDawg]

4 hours ago, Elvis1209 said:

Unfortunately, there will always be someone that has to put on a show!  There is nothing I like to do on a cruise more than smoke a cigar and sip a cognac.  We are a dying breed!  The smoking Gestapo are coming to get us!  They are taking away our lounges, how long will it be before they take away our outdoor smoking areas?

 

Elvis

 

 

If there were really a smoking Gestapo, you'd be gone already.

 

It's more like the smoking Keystone Cops are out to get you.  (Or should that be the Gazpacho police?)

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[John Bull]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Generally agree --except for notion of movement in rough waters.   Because forward cabins are never over the bow - often 100 or more feet aft, while aft facing cabins are as far aft as possible, the effect of ships pitch are as likely to be felt in aft as in forward cabins. 

 

 

That's gonna depend on the age of the ship.

In the hull of older (much older) ships, passenger cabins extend right up to the pointy bit. We've sailed a couple of them - with our cabins in the pointy bit, and in bad-tempered seas.  Yes, the vertical movement is quite extreme, and for cabins somewhere near the water line the waves crash loudly against the cabin "wall". Quite exciting for a night or two, but if experienced frequently it gets to be more than a bit tedious - especially since the porthole covers are lowered by the crew. That's one of the disadvantages of being a cheapskate and booking budget cabins 😏 

That's old ships (both of those we experienced have since gone to the scrapyard in the sky).

 

But there's now a trend to build ships with the superstructure further forward than builds of the more-recent past, so more chance of an uncomfortable ride - even in cabins no further forward than the bridge. 

 

JB 🙂   

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Except that you disregard the shape of the hull at bow and stern.  The bow has "flare", where it widens dramatically above the waterline.  This is done for a purpose, so that as the bow enters a wave, there is more volume in the bow to provide more buoyancy, to raise the bow above the wave.  The stern, on the other hand, has a relatively flat surface at the waterline (especially for azipod ships), that when forced down by the bow rising, presents more surface area to the water, and therefore requires more force to move the stern an equivalent amount as the bow.  The ship will pitch around the center of buoyancy, which is aft of midships, so the moment arm that an aft cabin experiences is shorter than a forward one, and hence moves less distance vertically.

 

How does the new shape of some of the bows of newer ships change things... the ships where the visible bow has the very forward edge *not* sloping forward (with flaring sides), but has a design where that forward edge is closer to vertical or even sloping slightly *back* as it rises from sea level?  [Very sorry for the rough description; I'm obviously not a design professional!]

 

When I saw those, I only thought about "slicing through" relatively calm water.  I had not been aware of some of the specific reasons for the "flared" bow in waves.  How does the "non-flared" bow change the ship motion in waves?

 

Is there something you could recommend for an amateur to read about this?

 

Many thanks, as usual!  We *always* appreciate your input!

 

GC

[Nebr.cruiser]

We'd rather not be by the noisy busy pool, don't drink, so drink packages mean nothing, and purposely look for cabins by the elevators, just to name a few 'unpopular' opinions.  We have others!

 

Oh yes, don't like the current trend of having many more and more things that need our phones to access easily.  I don't want to carry my phone everywhere! 

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

How does the new shape of some of the bows of newer ships change things... the ships where the visible bow has the very forward edge *not* sloping forward (with flaring sides), but has a design where that forward edge is closer to vertical or even sloping slightly *back* as it rises from sea level?  [Very sorry for the rough description; I'm obviously not a design professional!]

 

When I saw those, I only thought about "slicing through" relatively calm water.  I had not been aware of some of the specific reasons for the "flared" bow in waves.  How does the "non-flared" bow change the ship motion in waves?

 

Is there something you could recommend for an amateur to read about this?

 

Many thanks, as usual!  We *always* appreciate your input!

 

GC

What you are referring to is the new trend to "reverse bows".  This makes the waterline length longer for a given overall length, and therefore the theoretical "hull speed" is greater (the most efficient speed to push the hull through the water).  Without flare, the bows will not rise with a wave, but will tend to cut through the wave, so there will be less pitching, but the bow area will be significantly "wetter" (the entire front end of the ship will take far more green water than a flared bow).

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

What you are referring to is the new trend to "reverse bows".  This makes the waterline length longer for a given overall length, and therefore the theoretical "hull speed" is greater (the most efficient speed to push the hull through the water).  Without flare, the bows will not rise with a wave, but will tend to cut through the wave, so there will be less pitching, but the bow area will be significantly "wetter" (the entire front end of the ship will take far more green water than a flared bow).

Isn’t this actually a bit retro?  I recall seeing pictures of naval vessels, WWI and earlier that appeared to have this shape bow.  EM

[George C]

I think shorts and baseball caps should not be allowed in mdr in the evening like in the past.

[lenquixote66]

8 hours ago, momofmeg said:

Then you may as well say you will never again. It is here to stay just like the flu. My husband and I flew all the way to England this summer and took a British Isles cruise.  Neither of us got COVID but a month later him and my daughter got it when they went to Disneyworld.  

Perhaps Disneyworld is not a place to visit ?

[XBGuy]

• I don't care how fast the wi-fi is on the ship.  I'm fine with 0 BPS.
• I'm OK with no USB ports in my cabin.
• Eating in the dining room is not "dining."  Fortunately, every cruise we have taken since 2004 has offered alternatives that we have enjoyed.  Prior to then, alternatives were not available, and we convinced ourselves that the dining room experience was wonderful.

 

[Fleuve51]

Did you read my reply as to why I think the CDAnd GM are important to know?

eileen 

[mom says]

36 minutes ago, Fleuve51 said:

Did you read my reply as to why I think the CDAnd GM are important to know?

eileen 

I don't see a reply on that subject on this thread.

[Elvis1209]

9 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

If there were really a smoking Gestapo, you'd be gone already.

 

It's more like the smoking Keystone Cops are out to get you.  (Or should that be the Gazpacho police?)

 

You are correct!  I'm giving them too much credit!

 

Elvis

 

[robthens]

Guess I'm in the minority at least on the thread.

I love an aft/rear facing cabin.  Especially if I can get the corner with a wraparound balcony.

Even the middle rear facing have an advantage because you get a double size balcony

 

 

[momofmeg]

21 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

Perhaps Disneyworld is not a place to visit ?

 Well, true but Disneyworld where you are mostly outside SHOULD be much safer than a 9-hour flight to England as the airlines were no longer requiring vaccinations or masks this summer.  Besides, who wants to never take a vacation anywhere? We did rent a condo in Hilton Head last year to stay safe but honestly, we were bored. You can only take so many walks on the beach.  However, we did it because Delta was raging. Now COVID is not nearly as bad. My daughter and I both had it early in 2020 we were very sick for a month. She even developed Long covid. When she got it again this time, she was only ill a day or 2 instead of a month. Big difference.  Oh, and this time although I was exposed from them, I never got it. COVID is not the big worry it once was.

 

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, XBGuy said:

• I don't care how fast the wi-fi is on the ship.  I'm fine with 0 BPS.
• I'm OK with no USB ports in my cabin.
• Eating in the dining room is not "dining."  Fortunately, every cruise we have taken since 2004 has offered alternatives that we have enjoyed.  Prior to then, alternatives were not available, and we convinced ourselves that the dining room experience was wonderful.

 

So, you have gotten my curiosity juices flowing.  Why do you say that "eating in the dining room is not dining?"  In the interests of full disclosure, DW and I generally dine later (after 7:30) and often like to share tables of 6 or 8.  We will often "dine" for over 1 1/2 hours and have a lot of fun socializing at dinner (we once had a Matire'd ask if he could join our fun table).  

 

Hank

[lenquixote66]

46 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

 Well, true but Disneyworld where you are mostly outside SHOULD be much safer than a 9-hour flight to England as the airlines were no longer requiring vaccinations or masks this summer.  Besides, who wants to never take a vacation anywhere? We did rent a condo in Hilton Head last year to stay safe but honestly, we were bored. You can only take so many walks on the beach.  However, we did it because Delta was raging. Now COVID is not nearly as bad. My daughter and I both had it early in 2020 we were very sick for a month. She even developed Long covid. When she got it again this time, she was only ill a day or 2 instead of a month. Big difference.  Oh, and this time although I was exposed from them, I never got it. COVID is not the big worry it once was.

 

My best friend died from Covid.After that I have stayed out of crowds.

[XBGuy]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

So, you have gotten my curiosity juices flowing.  Why do you say that "eating in the dining room is not dining?"  In the interests of full disclosure, DW and I generally dine later (after 7:30) and often like to share tables of 6 or 8.  We will often "dine" for over 1 1/2 hours and have a lot of fun socializing at dinner (we once had a Matire'd ask if he could join our fun table).  

 

Hank

 

 We just think it is more a banquet environment than a dining environment.

 

• Servers scurrying around with multiple covered dishes stacked on trays.
• Tables much to close together.  It is much too easy to eavesdrop on the conversation at the table behind me.
• I am not crazy about the server taking the  order of the neighboring table and, then, without moving his feet, looking at us and asking for our order.  It makes me feel that we are all in the same party.
• Servers sweeping away my salad plate with their right hand while in almost the same motion dropping my entree in front of me with  their left hand.  We like to linger between courses.

 

The OP asked if we had any views that might be deemed unpopular or unusual.  Based on my readings here on Cruise Critic the three comments that I made seemed to be minority opinions.

 

Also, though, I am really appreciative of @Drew B 58 for starting this conversation.  It supports a point that I have made multiple times, here on Cruise Critic.  The great thing about cruising is that each individual passenger gets to customize their experience.  Just because I do not enjoy something does not mean it is not enjoyable for anybody else.  On every one of our cruises, there have been many activities in which I did not participate and many venues that I never visited.  I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money that the vast majority of Cruise Critic participants have the same experience.  Of course I would never say that an activity or venue should not be included on any cruise because I do not care for it.  I do really enjoy seeing smiling passengers enjoying their experience because they are able to participate in the activities that they enjoy.

 

 

[Hlitner]

6 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

 

 We just think it is more a banquet environment than a dining environment.

 

• Servers scurrying around with multiple covered dishes stacked on trays.
• Tables much to close together.  It is much too easy to eavesdrop on the conversation at the table behind me.
• I am not crazy about the server taking the  order of the neighboring table and, then, without moving his feet, looking at us and asking for our order.  It makes me feel that we are all in the same party.
• Servers sweeping away my salad plate with their right hand while in almost the same motion dropping my entree in front of me with  their left hand.  We like to linger between courses.

 

The OP asked if we had any views that might be deemed unpopular or unusual.  Based on my readings here on Cruise Critic the three comments that I made seemed to be minority opinions.

 

Also, though, I am really appreciative of @Drew B 58 for starting this conversation.  It supports a point that I have made multiple times, here on Cruise Critic.  The great thing about cruising is that each individual passenger gets to customize their experience.  Just because I do not enjoy something does not mean it is not enjoyable for anybody else.  On every one of our cruises, there have been many activities in which I did not participate and many venues that I never visited.  I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money that the vast majority of Cruise Critic participants have the same experience.  Of course I would never say that an activity or venue should not be included on any cruise because I do not care for it.  I do really enjoy seeing smiling passengers enjoying their experience because they are able to participate in the activities that they enjoy.

 

 

Thanks for the comments.  We do get it!  I think your issues are somewhat more dependent on the cruise line.  So, for example, why this might be the case on some mass market lines, we would not expect most of those issues on the luxury lines or even on ship within a ship situation such as in MSC Yacht Club's restaurant.   But having been at this cruise game for about 50 years we have learned some interesting factoids from crew friends.  Many cruise ship passengers want to eat early and eat fast.  They view more than an hour dining as too long and waiters often make the assumption that folks want things moved along.  This is even more true with early dining when staff has pressure on them to get folks out so they can get to the later diners.  Since we dine later, this is not a problem and we also let the waiter know that "we are not in a hurry" and to please not rush us.  Another habit we have developed is to not order our meal until after we have received our wine (we always drink wine with dinner).  This is because, in the past, we have often been well into our meal before our wine makes it to the table.  I think we could say that "we are going to dine" even if it is inconvenient to the crew.   

 

I cannot emphasize enough, that there is a big difference between early dining (perhaps up to about 7pm) and later dining.  If you ever manage to "connect" with a waiter and catch him/her in a quiet moment (this often happens with late diners) ask about the issue.  The relatively new trend (primarily among Americans) to dine early and dine fast is something that crusie lines must embrace.  When we sit down to a later dinner at 8pm on some ships (especially HAL) there are many folks already heading to their cabins for some TV and bed!  DW and I have often found ourselves in a piano bar (on the few ships that still have this venue) at 11pm when you could count the patrons on one or two hands!  Thousands on the ship, and only a few awake at 11.   When we dine late we sometimes do not leave the MDR until nearly 10pm (we will hustle if we are among the last...so the crew can finish).  

 

I have often wondered if the early American dining thing comes from the "early birds" in Florida :).  When we started cruising in the 70s, there were only two sittings (no open dining in those days) and the big demand was for the late dining which was sometimes as late as 8:30.  In those days early dining was something for folks traveling with little kids or the really old folks (that would be me these days) who wanted to finish dinner by 5:30.  Now, it is all reversed with it being easy to get into the MDR after 7:45 (on most ships).  One interesting tidbit about Seabourn is that their MDR does not even open until 7 pm (usually 7 to 9) \.  On a recent Seaborn Ovation cruise, we overheard one couple complaining that they like to eat dinner at 4:30 (that would be tea time).  When we have done some independent driving trips in Spain we have had to adjust to the fact that some restaurants do not even open until 9pm for dinner!  Imagine.

 

Hank