Lack of empathy with shore excursion injury

[ldubs]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:10 AM, Pickels said:

So sorry to hear about your accident, hope you are doing well now.  As a point, among other things, always bring a first aid kit and make sure you contract a non-cruise sponsored travel insurance.  Supporting the Celebrity staff; I can speak from first-hand experience; on our last cruise on the Reflection, while walking thru the ship, I tripped and went down like a ton on bricks.  Immediately staff came over and helped me up, got a chair for me to sit and recover, brought me a bottle of water and was concerned as to my condition.  After a few minutes, I was able to get up and walk.  They asked if I wanted to go to the medical station; I said no, not needed. Our butler, brought me an ice back and arranged for a wheelchair to get off the ship, and they escorted me off the ship, thru customs and onto a cab.  Great support from Celebrity staff. 

 

I wonder if the difference is the OP's incident happened off the ship.  Sad to think it, but when something like this happens on an excursion, I wonder if staff are cautioned to not do or say anything that might be like an admission of guilt. 

 

If so, it doesn't make it OK.  I am surprised at the lack of concern and support. The OP's ordeal is just opposite of what I would expect. 

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Sad to think it, but when something like this happens on an excursion, I wonder if staff are cautioned to not do or say anything that might be like an admission of guilt. 

I think you are on to something here...being noncommittal in empathy, concern about the circumstances, or even nodding in agreement with the injured party could be construed as an admission of guilt on the part of the service provider.  It's a shame that fear of being sued has taken the place of human empathy towards others in a time of need.  I'm not suggesting that the OP is litigious in any way but many people are just out to make a buck and will use a situation such as this as a catalyst.

 

I live in a rural area and one morning while on my daily walk down our dirt lane, a neighbor's dog broke free of his invisible electric fence and chased after me as I passed his property.  He bit me in the butt leaving a horrendous bruise that lasted weeks.  Though you could see teeth marks, he didn't break the skin.  I left a note in the neighbor's mailbox and waited.  When he called, his immediate reaction was that I must have done something to provoke the dog to bite me..."because he doesn't have a mean bone in his body".  I produced a picture (cropped) of my bare butt to show the extent of the dog's damage.  All I wanted was proof of current rabies vax and assurances that he would secure his dog.  Could I have sued?  Absolutely.  And fear of that kept him from responding to me in an empathetic manner.  It's the world we live in.  SMDH

[Dancing Shoes]

I am so sorry for your injury. We took a snorkel tour in  Belize to Hol Chen marine reserve this week through Celebrity.  It was the worse. If I had known what we encountered, we would have asked to cancel. 

No mention of seaweed and a strong current that required people to be assisted back to the boat. Tour operator should have canceled. My husband and I are experienced snorkelers. 
Avoid this tour.  I told the lady at the excursion desk and she gave me a link to a survey. 
 

[phoenix_dream]

I am sorry this happened to you and hope you are healing well.

 

I think Celebrity could have been a little more considerate in how they handled this situation, and definitely should have refunded the money right away.  We got a full refund once just by complaining that an excursion was just not at all what it was advertised to be.

 

That said, I think there are some things Celebrity has limited responsibility for.  As to the bathroom, for example, how could they predict that would happen?  Should a ship like that have a first aid kit?  Yes it should.  But how do they monitor that detailed level of inspection?  Are they expected to inspect every dock that an excursion stops at?  Now that they know about it of course they should put that vendor on hold until the issue is resolved but there are lots of less than 1st world country unsafe conditions on many excursions.  An overbooked excursion?  Any sailing excursion I have ever seen or been on has had wall to wall people so that is what I expect, like it or not.  You were met with a wheelchair, you were of sound mind, and your husband was apparently completely capable of taking you down to medical.  I would personally not fault them for not accompanying you.  You said the Safety Office did come down and make a report.

 

Did anyone follow-up with you at all?  Medical?  Guest Relations?  At a minimum I would expect that.

[cruising sister]

There are multiple studies that show admitting guilt and offering empathy actually results in less lawsuits. Hospitals have gone to admitting fault and even the worse clinicians get sued less if they are nice over excellent clinicians with bad bedside manners. 

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, cruising sister said:

There are multiple studies that show admitting guilt and offering empathy actually results in less lawsuits. Hospitals have gone to admitting fault and even the worse clinicians get sued less if they are nice over excellent clinicians with bad bedside manners. 

That might work if you're at fault or believe you may be at fault; otherwise, empathy is about the best that might be expected and even then there will be boundaries so that the injured party doesn't misunderstand that there is no admission of fault/liability.

[phnett]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:04 PM, phoenix_dream said:

I am sorry this happened to you and hope you are healing well.

 

I think Celebrity could have been a little more considerate in how they handled this situation, and definitely should have refunded the money right away.  We got a full refund once just by complaining that an excursion was just not at all what it was advertised to be.

 

That said, I think there are some things Celebrity has limited responsibility for.  As to the bathroom, for example, how could they predict that would happen?  Should a ship like that have a first aid kit?  Yes it should.  But how do they monitor that detailed level of inspection?  Are they expected to inspect every dock that an excursion stops at?  Now that they know about it of course they should put that vendor on hold until the issue is resolved but there are lots of less than 1st world country unsafe conditions on many excursions.  An overbooked excursion?  Any sailing excursion I have ever seen or been on has had wall to wall people so that is what I expect, like it or not.  You were met with a wheelchair, you were of sound mind, and your husband was apparently completely capable of taking you down to medical.  I would personally not fault them for not accompanying you.  You said the Safety Office did come down and make a report.

 

Did anyone follow-up with you at all?  Medical?  Guest Relations?  At a minimum I would expect that.

As stated in the first part of the post that I wanted to warn others of this excursion stop and yes I did expect empathy with Celebrity . 

I would like to think they run inspection of the excursions they use. Safety checks and such. 

Medical team did call to check on me. I had no issue with that team.  It was the guest relations and shore excursion desk that gave no follow up or empathy. 

I did email the Ministers of Tourism and of infrastructure  of St. Lucia about this dock

and Celebrity corp offices as well. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by phnett

[Tyler414]

On 4/19/2023 at 10:10 PM, Covepointcruiser said:

Celebrity should skip this port in the future, the infrastructure is severely lacking.

They better not.  St Lucia is beautiful and I'm looking forward to it.

[spammie]

You need to copy and paste your post and email it to the higher ups.  I am so sorry this happened to you and glad you were not hurt more seriously.  My husband refuses to do any excursions at these ports because of the lack of safety precautions and conditions.  

[Homosassa]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:11 PM, Dancing Shoes said:

 

No mention of seaweed and a strong current that required people to be assisted back to the boat. 
 

Seaweed? Strong current?

 

OMG!! - What is the ocean coming to?

[Homosassa]

14 hours ago, Tyler414 said:

They better not.  St Lucia is beautiful and I'm looking forward to it.

There are several things about t. Lucia that people who have never visited  are not aware of.

 

Before visiting, look at a map of St Lucia and notice the road system.  There isn't much of one; mainly a single road that circumvents the coast line and cuts over from one coast to the other through the mountains.  The road is often narrow, twisty and very slow going.

 

Excursion by road will take a long time.

 

While many are horrified that the OP had to stay on the catamaran to complete the tour instead of being offered the option of returning to the ship, the fact is that returning by road would have taken much longer than sailing back.

 

Also for anyone taking a shore excursion by land, be prepared for no publicly available rests stops. One that is available is not up to the standards (clean, flushable) that many are use to.

 

Bathrooms are available at any tourist stop that involves admission (varying quality of cleanliness).

 

Don't assume that air conditioning will be available on your transportation.  Even if a bus is equipped with AC, there is a good chance it will not be used as the bus navigates the grades and curves at slow speed.

[kearney]

A few years ago we went on a tour in St Lucia.. when we got back to the ship we learned that another tour had been in an accident and that the driver and guide were taken to the hospital..but passengers were treated on the ship. Later I did see a passenger with a brace on their arm. Ironically... I have twice scheduled tours on this island on subsequent trips... but cancelled both times.. I just had a feeling and was concerned about the level of care I might get there...should I be in an accident. On an earlier trip the US Comfort was in port doing surgeries which contributed to my concern. 

[kearney]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

There are several things about t. Lucia that people who have never visited  are not aware of.

 

Before visiting, look at a map of St Lucia and notice the road system.  There isn't much of one; mainly a single road that circumvents the coast line and cuts over from one coast to the other through the mountains.  The road is often narrow, twisty and very slow going.

 

Excursion by road will take a long time.

 

While many are horrified that the OP had to stay on the catamaran to complete the tour instead of being offered the option of returning to the ship, the fact is that returning by road would have taken much longer than sailing back.

 

Also for anyone taking a shore excursion by land, be prepared for no publicly available rests stops. One that is available is not up to the standards (clean, flushable) that many are use to.

 

Bathrooms are available at any tourist stop that involves admission (varying quality of cleanliness).

 

Don't assume that air conditioning will be available on your transportation.  Even if a bus is equipped with AC, there is a good chance it will not be used as the bus navigates the grades and curves at slow speed.

One reason I cancelled a tour was that it was a 6 hour tour... if anything went wrong.. it was a long way (long time) back.. your point about roads is well taken... especially if you want to see the Pitons by land.

[neverlaysup]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:44 AM, jean87510 said:

This is a reason Celebrity needs to copy carnival and post reviews for shore excursions.  It would save a lot of aggravation on both ends.  IF I think about booking a ship excursion which I try to avoid at all cost, I always search Carnivals website for reviews.  They tend to be more honest.

They used to a number of years ago and you are correct, I would like them to return. We booked a few that if properly reviewed, we never would have booked. 

[Dancing Shoes]

11 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Seaweed? Strong current?

 

OMG!! - What is the ocean coming to?

I know!  I read that the Sargassum had started to arrive early in Florida and was surprised that it had made its way to Belize.  We have been fortunate to snorkel at so many places around the world and have experienced currents before.  We canceled our snorkeling trip @ Grand Caymen and went to 7 Mile beach.  No Sargassum there.  You should have seen the pier @ Cozumel!  

[Sigyn]

Yikes, I'm sorry this happened to you. I would have expected more from Celebrity, too. How are you doing now?

[zitsky]

That sounds terrible.  I hope you get some compensation from Celebrity. 🙁

 

I was on a catamaran in Hawaii once.  No broken bones but it was bad enough that a few of us had pretty bad sea sickness.  We actually discussed jumping overboard when it got close to land but we had to wait longer to get off.  Worst ocean experience ever.  🤮

[Fly and Sail]

Horrible situation and thankfully the OP got out of it with a half-blue eye. This could have been MUCH worse. The ship should have provided more care and a full refund. Yes, they aren't liable for compensation but duty of care is another story.

 

I found most ports in the Caribbean to be shoddy and some post serious safety risks. The same goes for excursions and the tour providers. They're all out to make a quick buck hand in hand with the cruise lines. Celebrity takes a huge cut, then a bit is left for the excursion provider and they skimp of maintenance, safety equipment and quality locations.

 

I went on two excursions where the first impression of the place was so unsafe that I refused to go. One was a Zipline and the other a wild water rafting excursion that had no adequate life vests and no first aid kit. I took pictures and took a taxi back to the city/port then later on dealt with the excursions desk. First they refused to refund it and I said ok, don't refund it and I post this all over the place including the Celebrity payment receipt. Eventually they relented. No more excursions for me, I'm done! And in some ports I don't even get off the ship anymore.

[Mark_K]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:53 AM, Homosassa said:

There are several things about t. Lucia that people who have never visited  are not aware of.….

 

Also for anyone taking a shore excursion by land, be prepared for no publicly available rests stops. One that is available is not up to the standards (clean, flushable) that many are use to.

 

Bathrooms are available at any tourist stop that involves admission (varying quality of cleanliness).

 

It was on St. Lucia that I was introduced to the always available, but limited facilities of, the Road Side Rest Stop.

[Bill Miller]

Wood Plank Pier/Dock Safety  -- This is from over 40 years of walking down sketchy docks and commercial wharfs in Boston, NY Harbor, Baltimore, Norfolk, Miami... well you get the idea.

Look at where the dock. The wood planks have nails securing it. They are pounded into the supporting structure beams. This is the safest, strongest part of the dock. Walk where the nails are if possible. Don't scuff your shoes or you might catch a nail head working it way out. 

Buy travel insurance with medical coverage. I prefer the annual policy.

[Mother Mary]

I had a similar extwith in he Fairmont in Quebec City! Hope those reading this when you travel you are on your own!

[diverwayne]

So let me preface this by saying I am a dive instructor. However my wife is pretty much a non swimmer. So we were on a catamaran doing a turtle watch snorkel tour.. The first stop they anchored the boat everyone jumps in and the current is unbelievable. Thankfully there was another boat anchored not to far away and I was able to get my wife to the anchor line till I could get set up and tow her back to our boat. Then I helped the crew tow other people back. So at our second stop I told my wife not to get in the water until I checked out the current. Well if anything the current was worse so I hollered at her not to get in. Meanwhile a lot of other people were jumping in. To get back to the boat this time I had to head towards the island to try to get out of some of the current and then swim up past the boat to get back on because I couldn't get to the boat going into the current. Now just a little extra I was wearing my dive fins not snorkel fins. Well to cut to the chase the crew did nothing about the people getting swept away even though my wife was telling them to try helping these people she said they were even laughing about it. So finally other boats started picking up the snorklers that were supposed to be on our boat and only then did this boat crew react. It was a scary expirence. And my wife and I complained at the excursion desk and wrote letters to the cruise line and got no response at all. We were very lucky nobody died that day and again the cruise line did nothing. So I always  figure you get no real guarantees on these excursions

[zitsky]

3 minutes ago, diverwayne said:

So let me preface this by saying I am a dive instructor. However my wife is pretty much a non swimmer. So we were on a catamaran doing a turtle watch snorkel tour.. The first stop they anchored the boat everyone jumps in and the current is unbelievable. Thankfully there was another boat anchored not to far away and I was able to get my wife to the anchor line till I could get set up and tow her back to our boat. Then I helped the crew tow other people back. So at our second stop I told my wife not to get in the water until I checked out the current. Well if anything the current was worse so I hollered at her not to get in. Meanwhile a lot of other people were jumping in. To get back to the boat this time I had to head towards the island to try to get out of some of the current and then swim up past the boat to get back on because I couldn't get to the boat going into the current. Now just a little extra I was wearing my dive fins not snorkel fins. Well to cut to the chase the crew did nothing about the people getting swept away even though my wife was telling them to try helping these people she said they were even laughing about it. So finally other boats started picking up the snorklers that were supposed to be on our boat and only then did this boat crew react. It was a scary expirence. And my wife and I complained at the excursion desk and wrote letters to the cruise line and got no response at all. We were very lucky nobody died that day and again the cruise line did nothing. So I always  figure you get no real guarantees on these excursions

I’m glad your wife was ok.  Was anyone wearing a flotation device?

[NutsAboutGolf]

13 minutes ago, diverwayne said:

So let me preface this by saying I am a dive instructor. However my wife is pretty much a non swimmer. So we were on a catamaran doing a turtle watch snorkel tour.. The first stop they anchored the boat everyone jumps in and the current is unbelievable. Thankfully there was another boat anchored not to far away and I was able to get my wife to the anchor line till I could get set up and tow her back to our boat. Then I helped the crew tow other people back. So at our second stop I told my wife not to get in the water until I checked out the current. Well if anything the current was worse so I hollered at her not to get in. Meanwhile a lot of other people were jumping in. To get back to the boat this time I had to head towards the island to try to get out of some of the current and then swim up past the boat to get back on because I couldn't get to the boat going into the current. Now just a little extra I was wearing my dive fins not snorkel fins. Well to cut to the chase the crew did nothing about the people getting swept away even though my wife was telling them to try helping these people she said they were even laughing about it. So finally other boats started picking up the snorklers that were supposed to be on our boat and only then did this boat crew react. It was a scary expirence. And my wife and I complained at the excursion desk and wrote letters to the cruise line and got no response at all. We were very lucky nobody died that day and again the cruise line did nothing. So I always  figure you get no real guarantees on these excursions

 

Unfortunately if you even receive a refund or discount off another tour, it's more than likely to get you to go away vs them talking to the tour operator 

[Homosassa]

15 hours ago, Mark_K said:

It was on St. Lucia that I was introduced to the always available, but limited facilities of, the Road Side Rest Stop.

If it was the  same Road Side Rest Stop that we were taken to on our excursion, "limited" is being kind.