Posted on Another Site...Ruby Princess Hits Dock in SF

[SonomaMist]

9 minutes ago, sfpd3000 said:

Most people are staying on

I would too and I live in the North Bay. 

For the out of towners, be sure to visit Baker Beach, the Presidio National Park Visitor Center, a walk to Golden Gate from Chrissy Fields -- and the park at Sales Force Tower right in town.  Amazing.  Also, consider taking a ferry to Sausalito!

[2 cruises a year]

I'm wondering about the PVSA.  Passengers boarded, but didn't stop at a foreign, or distant port.

[DallasGuy75219]

2 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I'm wondering about the PVSA.  Passengers boarded, but didn't stop at a foreign, or distant port.

PVSA wouldn't apply because Princess didn't transport them anywhere. 

[startedwithamouse]

17 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I'm wondering about the PVSA.  Passengers boarded, but didn't stop at a foreign, or distant port.

They'd didn't go anywhere 

[cr8tiv1]

I am far from being a captain, pilot, or other driver.  BUT, curious minds (me) want to know:

 

Most of the time, on ships I've been on, doesn't ships that "back in" usually do so with about 10 feet of parallel clearance and THEN tugs and thrusters push them up against the dock?  

[Thrak]

3 hours ago, oskidunker said:

They are already denied Victoria because their ships are too big.

 

We ported in Victoria on Royal Princess last May.

[Outerdog]

19 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

I am far from being a captain, pilot, or other driver.  BUT, curious minds (me) want to know:

 

Most of the time, on ships I've been on, doesn't ships that "back in" usually do so with about 10 feet of parallel clearance and THEN tugs and thrusters push them up against the dock?  

 

Ask any ship captain and they will tell you that every docking maneuver is unique. It will vary, even at the same port, based on weather conditions, currents, port traffic, maintenance needs.

 

The typical maneuver at Pier 27 for most Princess ships is to bring the bow south of the pier, swing the bow to port and back in. See this post. Occasionally, Princess will bring the bow in first. When Celebrity docks at 27, they seem to prefer the bow in.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Outerdog

[SCX22]

According to the letter that was passed down to the passengers, this is the Captain at the time of the incident.

[Outerdog]

It seems some of you have convicted and jailed the captain already...

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, suzyed said:

A report on the news.  I also heard from the same report that the pilot was being drug and alcohol tested.

Whenever there is an accident. ships, trains, planes the people involved are always tested. Normal part of an accident investigation. The fact that testing is occurring has no bearing on capability at this time. Only means that normal procedure is being followed.

[bjackrian]

5 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Whenever there is an accident. ships, trains, planes the people involved are always tested. Normal part of an accident investigation. The fact that testing is occurring has no bearing on capability at this time. Only means that normal procedure is being followed.

In fact, it is a legal requirement for any accident in US territorial waters where anything is hurt, a vessel is lost, or there is $200,000 or more in damage.

 

"Personnel to be tested are those who negligence cannot be discounted as contributing to the accident. This is a determination to be made by the marine employer. A law enforcement person may require additional vessel personnel to be tested."

 

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organization/Assistant-Commandant-for-Prevention-Policy-CG-5P/Inspections-Compliance-CG-5PC-/Office-of-Investigations-Casualty-Analysis/Drug-and-Alcohol-Program/Serious-Marine-Incident-Alcohol-an/

[quack2]

So many comments, so many "experts", so little credible information.  Yep, this is the internet.

[Bgwest]

Poof

[wizardofmv]

2 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I'm wondering about the PVSA.  Passengers boarded, but didn't stop at a foreign, or distant port.

Prince Rupert is a foreign port.

[Woodside Lady]

2 hours ago, SonomaMist said:

I would too and I live in the North Bay. 

For the out of towners, be sure to visit Baker Beach, the Presidio National Park Visitor Center, a walk to Golden Gate from Chrissy Fields -- and the park at Sales Force Tower right in town.  Amazing.  Also, consider taking a ferry to Sausalito!

Or take the ferry to Angel Island.  Stunning views.  Or take the bus to Treasure Island and enjoy the wineries (and stunning views). 

[caribill]

14 minutes ago, wizardofmv said:

Prince Rupert is a foreign port.

 

2 cruises a year was referring to passengers who boarded in San Francisco and decided to leave the ship before it goes anywhere.

[Boatdrill]

5 hours ago, memoak said:

 Again the Ruby is not s mega ship with just over 3,000 passengers 

😮

[brisalta]

45 minutes ago, wizardofmv said:

Prince Rupert is a foreign port.

 

And Prince Rupert is very charming. Across from the dock and up the hill is The Museum of Northern BC which is a monumental long house. https://visitprincerupert.com/experience/history-and-culture/

As a rail head Prince Rupert has a railroad museum.

There is fishing and much more.

[schnapperin]

Guess the Rubys dry dock rumors for September / October will shortly be officially confirmed 

 

sounds like a good offer - it might not be the dream cruise but what else can one do if you’re already in SF and have the time off? 

[NavArch64]

To SCX22 ... thank you for the info ... the Master of Ruby Princess appears to be Capt. Mario Tani from your post. Does anyone know the name of the SF Bar Pilot who was onboard?

[NavArch64]

I would be curious to know if he/she was a graduate of either the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, NY or the California Maritime Academy at Vallejo, CA. Also, whether he/she was a graduate of the Maritime Institute of Training and Graduate Studies at Linthicum, MD. Just an idea of the skill level he/she brought to the bridge of Ruby Princess. Given the news report you referenced, it would appear that the Pilot was very experienced and highly skilled. So, the interesting question is why did this happen? A state-of-the-art cruise ship under the command of a skilled and experienced Captain with the advice and counsel of a skilled and experienced Pilot. Yes, as one who has been on the bridge of Ruby Princess, I am curious.

 

PS I served as Director of the Office of Advanced Ship Operations at the US Maritime Administration in Washington, DC for much of my career.

[SonomaMist]

10 hours ago, Thrak said:

 

We ported in Victoria on Royal Princess last May.

We ported in Victoria this Wednesday, July 6, 2023 - Carnival Luminosa.

[NavArch64]

Using a nominal estimate of $300 per person per day in expected revenue for the 10 day voyage of Ruby Princess, with a nominal 3000 guests onboard, this incident has already cost Princess Cruises (and therefore Carnival Corporation) at least $300 x 10 x 3000 x (0.75 + 0.75) = $13.5 million in guest compensation alone (refund + FCC). Add in the repair costs, less the fuel costs saved for the shorter voyage, and this incident is no doubt costing over $15 million. If I were in Santa Clarita or Miami, I would be more than curious.

 

(If I have made a mistake in my arithmetic, please let me know)

Edited July 8, 2023 by NavArch64

[NavArch64]

I would guess that William Burke will lead the internal investigation for Carnival Corporation ...

 

William Burke, retired Vice Admiral, joined Carnival Corporation & plc in December of 2013, as the Chief Maritime Officer, where he heads the Maritime Policy Department, which is responsible for driving the company’s commitment to safety. 

A native of Hornell, N.Y., Burke graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a Bachelor of Science in Systems Engineering and completed a Master of Business Administration at Marymount University. He earned a Master of Science degree in National Security Strategy at the National War College in Washington, D.C. and is also a graduate of Massachusetts Institute of Technology Seminar 21 Program in International Politics.

[chengkp75]

On 7/6/2023 at 4:20 PM, brisalta said:

 

The captain is not in control coming into San Francisco Bay. See my post #35

The San Francisco Bar Pilot and / or the tug captains will be at risk of penalty.

Some of the tug boats are run aggressively. I once saw a tug take out a number of pilings at the pier across from pier 27. He had applied too much power going astern when attempting to pull a broken fuel barge away from the Grand Princess.

This does not accurately reflect the Master/Pilot relationship.  The Captain is always responsible for the ship, but he/she may delegate "the conn", or the authority to give commands for maneuvering the ship, to the pilot (generally always done), just as he/she does to the bridge officers when the Captain is not on the bridge.  The Captain may rescind this authority if he/she feels the ship is in danger.  The pilot and tug skippers would only be found responsible if they are found to be grossly negligent, or to not have obeyed orders.

 

With regards to water depth, the cruise line's ISM (International Safety Management) plan requires a given "UKC" (under keel clearance), which specifies the distance between the bottom of the ship and the bottom of the harbor.  Since the depth of the ship can vary by load, and the depth of the water can vary by tides, this UKC is the controlling aspect, and is a constant.

 

As to inspection and repair, both the USCG and the classification society will need to inspect, and if there is no tear in the hull, they will likely be able to proceed, with stipulation that at least temporary repairs be made within a given time frame (typically up to 30 days).  Given the amount of severe deformation of the hull plating I see in the photo, there will be some plating repairs needed, as well as some structural work behind this.  If "dimples" in the hull are not "sharp" but gradual, then the plating is usually left until a scheduled dry docking, and if the framing behind is not severely deformed, then it is frequently just cut out and new framing cut to fit the "new curvature" of the deformed hull.