Red Sea troubles

[SumoCitrus]

Have any HAL cruises been affected by the situation in Yemen and in or near the Red Sea?

[SumoCitrus]

Adding news story for context:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-15/maersk-tells-all-its-container-ships-to-pause-red-sea-voyages

 

[HappyInVan]

nOt a surprise. The entire region is a conflict zone. Will turn hot from time to time.

[ski ww]

I wonder if cruise lines will cancel Suez Canal cruises.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

1 hour ago, ski ww said:

I wonder if cruise lines will cancel Suez Canal cruises.

We will find out soon ...

[StLouisCruisers]

Looks pretty bare of cruise ships right now, thank goodness.  I'm glad the Zuiderdam made it through that area on the Grand Africa cruise in early November before the missiles and drones started cropping up.  What a horrific thought that a cruise ship would be targeted.😥   

[Torquer]

5 hours ago, ski ww said:

I wonder if cruise lines will cancel Suez Canal cruises.

The only problem is that, unlike Panama Canal cruises, most people are not on the cruise to see just the Suez canal.  They are on the cruise because the cruise travels from Europe to Asia, and going through the canal is essential to maintain the cruise schedule.  It is likely that cruise lines would have to make major changes to adjacent cruise schedules due to having to take the many days to circum-navigate Africa.

[sunviking90]

It will be interesting to see what decisions are made for this year’s world cruise on the Zuiderdam and when. It’s a massive itinerary change if they can’t take that route.

[HappyInVan]

See this...

 

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-says-royal-navy-ship-124533615.html

 

 

[Mary229]

This is a case where I would not rely on the cruise line to make a decision.  Read the Oceana boards, it has been a study in poor corporate oversight.    I would not consider sailing into a zone of active conflict.

[Heidi13]

19 hours ago, Mary229 said:

This is a case where I would not rely on the cruise line to make a decision.  Read the Oceana boards, it has been a study in poor corporate oversight.    I would not consider sailing into a zone of active conflict.

 

In most war zones, the decision is made by the Underwriters for the cruise lines, as hull insurance is either prohibitively expensive, or not even available. Crew costs also escalate in a war zone, so it really shouldn't be a tough decision for a ship owner.

 

Not sailing into those waters is the easy decision, figuring out schedule changes are a little more complex.

 

Going to be very interesting watching for changes to the World Cruises, which will be starting within the next couple of weeks, as many of them are scheduled for Suez.

[ski ww]

In the paper this morning two major shipping companies Hapag-Lloyd & Maersk have ordered their commercial to temporarily pause transit through the strait. I would think cruise lines will not be far behind. 

[RBB]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Going to be very interesting watching for changes to the World Cruises, which will be starting within the next couple of weeks, as many of them are scheduled for Suez.

   I don't know about the other world cruises, but Holland America's isn't scheduled to reach the Red Sea until the middle of April.  A lot can change in 4 months.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, RBB said:

   I don't know about the other world cruises, but Holland America's isn't scheduled to reach the Red Sea until the middle of April.  A lot can change in 4 months.

 

Yes, much can change in 4 months, it can change for the better, or worse. Most WC's reach Suez around April, but that doesn't mean they have 4 months to make a decision. I also note piracy, prevalent in those waters, has been ongoing for years, not months.

 

The additional distance around the Cape is about 5,000 miles, which at 18 kts takes 11 - 12 days continuous steaming. If they are going around the Cape and still have ports of call, the revised itinerary needs to be complete before departing Australia, which is normally February. Since working on a revised itinerary can take a couple of weeks, the decision needs to be made late January/early February.

 

Therefore, they only have about 6 - 8 weeks to decide.

 

The cruise lines could decide to continue, then prior to entering those waters, the Underwriters could cancel the insurance, due to a war zone. They would have no option but to round the Cape and spend long continuous days at sea, to ensure the next cruise wasn't impacted. Expect to see these decisions made earlier rather than later.  

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

I also note piracy, prevalent in those waters, has been ongoing for years, not months.

Piracy in the Straits of Hormuz has been going on for centuries.  😲

 

There are several multi-national naval task forces in the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, Indian Ocean areas formed to protect against smuggling and piracy.  There are about 4 task forces, and some can be sent to reinforce the Red Sea/Gulf of Aden to provide maritime security/escort protection as they have for the last few years.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:21 PM, sunviking90 said:

It will be interesting to see what decisions are made for this year’s world cruise on the Zuiderdam and when. It’s a massive itinerary change if they can’t take that route.

I agree with you ...

[HappyInVan]

14 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Since working on a revised itinerary can take a couple of weeks, the decision needs to be made late January/early February.

 

 

 

Actually, this would be a very drastic change in the itinerary. Wonder if visas would be required in some African counties?

 

Pax should be informed before FP, giving them the option to cancel without penalty. That would be January, 2024.

[Heidi13]

1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Actually, this would be a very drastic change in the itinerary. Wonder if visas would be required in some African counties?

 

Pax should be informed before FP, giving them the option to cancel without penalty. That would be January, 2024.

 

If the Red Sea is closed any changes will mean a significantly changed itinerary, as they have the Cape of Good Hope option, or returning back across the Pacific and going through Panama or rounding Cape Horn.

 

Although the Terms & Condition permit said changes, from a customer service perspective, even if the cruise has already started, I expect pax would be provided the option to cancel, be returned home at cruise line expense and receive a refund of the unused days.

 

This was the offer Viking provided pax on the COVID curtailed 2020 WC.

[HappyInVan]

Let's walk it through. Z leaves FLL on Jan 3, in 2 weeks. Reaches Singapore on March 23. Then, a decision has to be made about the next segment.

 

Assuming that the Middle East is no-go; both Persian Gulf and Red Sea are still hot. The ship might proceed to Colombo, then make a run towards the East Coast of Africa.

 

Cape of Good Hope is latitude 34' South. So, the ship will be in Cape Town at the beginning of the Southern winter. The Southern Hemisphere's winter solstice is in June. Any idea what winter ocean conditions are in that region?

 

The straight line distance between Colombo and Cape Town is 5k miles. So 12 days sailing. That's a long ocean voyage unless you get a break in the Seychelles or Madagascar.

 

Then, not many cruise ports along West Africa's coast. Any requirements for disease vaccinations?

 

The bottom line is that you'll spend a month bypassing the Suez. Arriving in Gibraltar around about the scheduled day of the original itinerary, having bypass the Middle East and Mediterranean. Then, completing the voyage to FLL.

 

The pax on just the Pacific and Asian segments are fine. The problem for pax sailing on from Singapore (or embarking/disembarking in Dubai) is that the ship sails in two weeks from Florida. So, a quick decision is necessary if you have Cancellation Protection.

 

IMO, HAL HQ has contingency plans for a Suez closure. In the last few days, they've been busy confirming the viability of ports and supplies. Likely to announce a revised itinerary before the Jan 3^rd departure.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Sea42]

21 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Although the Terms & Condition permit said changes, from a customer service perspective, even if the cruise has already started, I expect pax would be provided the option to cancel, be returned home at cruise line expense and receive a refund of the unused days.

 

This was the offer Viking provided pax on the COVID curtailed 2020 WC.

Cruise lines were in very different financial situations at the start of the pandemic. I don't think they will offer that same level of compensation now.

[Heidi13]

25 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

Cruise lines were in very different financial situations at the start of the pandemic. I don't think they will offer that same level of compensation now.

 

Sadly, HAL didn't provide that level of offer to their WC pax at that time either.

[SharonN]

2 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Sadly, HAL didn't provide that level of offer to their WC pax at that time either.

HAL did provide compensation for the 2020 WC passengers when we had to get off the ship in Perth just over 1/2 way into the trip. They paid us back for our flights home and offered us a 125% credit of the entire cruise fare or 50% credit and 50% cash back. We thought it was more than generous since we'd had 1/2 the cruise and it was great until we got to Australia. 

[Heidi13]

1 minute ago, SharonN said:

HAL did provide compensation for the 2020 WC passengers when we had to get off the ship in Perth just over 1/2 way into the trip. They paid us back for our flights home and offered us a 125% credit of the entire cruise fare or 50% credit and 50% cash back. We thought it was more than generous since we'd had 1/2 the cruise and it was great until we got to Australia. 

 

Friends of ours, who did not have flights through HAL had to arrange their own flights home from Freemantle.

[SharonN]

8 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Friends of ours, who did not have flights through HAL had to arrange their own flights home from Freemantle.

We had to make our own flight arrangements but got much better flights than if we'd waited for them to have time to do them. But they did pay us back for them. 

[cruzingnut]

18 minutes ago, SharonN said:

We had to make our own flight arrangements but got much better flights than if we'd waited for them to have time to do them. But they did pay us back for them. 

 

They only paid up to a certain amount; can't remember what it was but somewhere around $2,500 pp?  Our flights home were far more than that.

 

We aren't going on the WC next year but will be following along, both jealously and with great interest to see how it all goes.

 

Linda R.