Dilemma on Airfare ?

[dog]

Toronto to Rome- nonstop in Nov.

40k ++++ aeroplan miles.

[dog]

8 minutes ago, envy4u said:

Fearful as I never used EZair before. I already paid for the transatlantic in full. Air Canada will not cancel

this flight but how do I know for sure that they will be holding this seat for me and not selling it online to someone else? Should I pay in full for EZair or can I wait with confidence?

With EZ air you are likely to be routed through US.  I have flown air Canada non stop YYZ to FCO many times.  If you want nonstop go with Air Canada flight.

[cr8tiv1]

10 minutes ago, envy4u said:

Fearful as I never used EZair before. I already paid for the transatlantic in full. Air Canada will not cancel

this flight but how do I know for sure that they will be holding this seat for me and not selling it online to someone else? Should I pay in full for EZair or can I wait with confidence?

 

Not sure what you are asking here.  Did you purchase EZ Air to get you to Rome.  Or did you pay for your return also?  Are you past final payment but before 45 days?  Are you 3-ticketed?  

 

Once ticketed, the airline becomes the holder of your ticket/flight.  It is a misconception that EZ Air cancels flights.  Airlines do it ALL the time.  But you have the guarantee that EZ Air will get you there and back.  

 

I was on Air Canada (EZ Air) from Quebec to LAX.  Air Canada cancelled....every morning flight (Jazz).  I panicked.  EZ Air came through with a very tight connection via Montreal.  Got on a 5 PM flight and by the skin of my teeth/last person to board, got on the flight in Montreal.  On currently booked LHR ticket, Delta cancelled my return.  EZ Air made it right.  EZ Air may be a little more difficult to work with than booking directly, but I am comfortable that I have the flexibility and they will work with me.

[SCX22]

11 minutes ago, envy4u said:

Fearful as I never used EZair before. I already paid for the transatlantic in full. Air Canada will not cancel

this flight but how do I know for sure that they will be holding this seat for me and not selling it online to someone else? Should I pay in full for EZair or can I wait with confidence?

You can book a flexible fare with EZAir and "Request for Early Ticketing."  This would entail you paying for your ticket on the spot, but forfeiting the benefit of cancelling/refaring up to 45 days prior to departure.  You can also book a restricted fare if it's cheaper.

 

I can guarantee you, though, your reservation is guaranteed if booked through EZAir unless AC cancels the flight.  Then you'd have to work with EZAir to reroute you.

 

One problem that you might face is that AC won't allow for seat selection until the reservation is ticketed and usually has a fee if you want to choose seats prior to check-in.  (Which is why I don't fly AC.)

[envy4u]

10 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

You can book a flexible fare with EZAir and "Request for Early Ticketing."  This would entail you paying for your ticket on the spot, but forfeiting the benefit of cancelling/refaring up to 45 days prior to departure.  You can also book a restricted fare if it's cheaper.

 

I can guarantee you, though, your reservation is guaranteed if booked through EZAir unless AC cancels the flight.  Then you'd have to work with EZAir to reroute you.

 

One problem that you might face is that AC won't allow for seat selection until the reservation is ticketed and usually has a fee if you want to choose seats prior to check-in.  (Which is why I don't fly AC.)

Does the EZair fare include luggage? If I book on my own using my aeroplan credit card I get one piece of luggage for free?

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

Most return flight tickets need to be from the same city you fly into

Absolutely not true. Booking between two cities is called "open jaw" routes. The key rule there is the "open jaw" can't be a greater distance than one of the actual flight legs.

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, wallyj said:

I don’t quite understand your question. Because or your itinerary, your trip is known as an ‘open jaw’ ticket which is basically 2 one way tickets?

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

Just because you are doing a triangle with an unflown leg does NOT make it an open jaw.  For a routing to be an open jaw, the unflown leg must be the shortest of the three segments.  FCO to FLL is not the shortest.

 

Then, for the second NO NO NO.

 

An open jaw is not "basically 2 one-way tickets".  And open jaw, when the routing rules and distances are applicable, is the combination of:

 

1/2 of the round-trip price for the first flown segment (in this case YYZ-FCO-YYZ)

plus

1/2 of the round-trip price for the second flown segment (in this case FLL-YYZ-FLL)

 

It is not just adding one-way prices together.  However, in the OP situation, the unflown leg is NOT the shortest, thus open-jaw pricing does not apply.  (It's actually the longest)

 

For reference: 

YYZ FCO = 4415 mi

FCO FLL = 5167 mi

FLL YYZ = 1214 mi

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

There is not a "roundtrip" airflight option for a cruise that begins in one city and ends in a different one.  By the nature of it, it's 2 one way tickets.

 

Incorrect.

 

See above post.

[wallyj]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

Just because you are doing a triangle with an unflown leg does NOT make it an open jaw.  For a routing to be an open jaw, the unflown leg must be the shortest of the three segments.  FCO to FLL is not the shortest.

 

Then, for the second NO NO NO.

 

An open jaw is not "basically 2 one-way tickets".  And open jaw, when the routing rules and distances are applicable, is the combination of:

 

1/2 of the round-trip price for the first flown segment (in this case YYZ-FCO-YYZ)

plus

1/2 of the round-trip price for the second flown segment (in this case FLL-YYZ-FLL)

 

It is not just adding one-way prices together.  However, in the OP situation, the unflown leg is NOT the shortest, thus open-jaw pricing does not apply.  (It's actually the longest)

 

For reference: 

YYZ FCO = 4415 mi

FCO FLL = 5167 mi

FLL YYZ = 1214 mi

Thank you for the education, I have previously in my mind labeled a triangle trip with an unflown segment as an ‘open jaw’ route. I assume the algorithm at the airline websites do the calculation to determine if the fare qualifies for ‘open jaw’ pricing when you do a search for what most passengers consider 2 one way flights?

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, wallyj said:

I assume the algorithm at the airline websites do the calculation to determine if the fare qualifies for ‘open jaw’ pricing when you do a search for what most passengers consider 2 one way flights?

 

The distances involved are not the only relevant rule, and the general rule set out above is not universal. But airline and travel agency websites will return valid fares for whatever itinerary you're trying to price, and will rule out invalid fares.

 

The key question is what fares are valid (if any). What "most passengers consider 2 one way flights" is really neither here nor there. A flight from A to B followed by a flight from B to A could be regarded as two one-way flights, and sometimes it's cheapest to fare those as two one-way fares (but sometimes it isn't).

 

I think that before making a final decision, the OP would be best off looking to see whether there are any airlines that offer cheap one-way fares from Toronto to Rome, even if it means that there's a connection involved. That may then be a viable alternative to using cruise line-booked flights or using frequent flyer awards.

[Zach1213]

I don't have much to add but I just want to say how funny it is that you can tell exactly when this thread moved in to Cruise Air from wherever else it lived 😆

[FlyerTalker]

14 hours ago, envy4u said:

I am from Canada and I tried to book a return flight, NON STOP, with Air Canada online and by phone with no success.

 

:Let's add in that there are a total of ONE airline that flies non-stop from YYZ to FCO. 

 

 

14 hours ago, envy4u said:

Sorry for the confusion. I need a flight from Toronto to Rome and a flight from Fort Lauderdale to Toronto. Doing a transatlantic. Only must it needs to be non stop. I’m flexible with dates. 

 

So as long as you insist on a non-stop, you have only Air Canada as a flight option.

 

You can easily do a two-stop YYZ to FCO for around CAD550 or one-stops in the low 700s, if price is a big consideration.

[FlyerTalker]

Further thought for everyone:

 

Yes, everyone wants a non-stop.  But take the time to ask yourself, what is the incremental cost differential that I would pay for a non-stop vs one-stop?  Or what is the discount I would need to move to a one-stop?  Think of the economic costs of various options and decide how much a non-stop is worth TO YOU.   Would you take a connection to save $20?  $50?  $100? $200?

 

Or, what would you pay to take a different aircraft or routing?  I've deliberately taken out-of-the-way connects to get a better inflight experience.  Emirates A380 vs 777 in business is a great example.  Night and day, IMO.

 

So the tip is:  ask yourself the value of travel options.  Then tailor your purchase decisions to match.

 

[Zach1213]

59 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Or, what would you pay to take a different aircraft or routing?  I've deliberately taken out-of-the-way connects to get a better inflight experience.  Emirates A380 vs 777 in business is a great example.  Night and day, IMO.

 

 

Not only have I flown out of the way and/or added a stop for a better experience, but I've done it to explore a city or just have some fun time. For example, if I fly from the US to India or the Middle East via London (I'm a OneWorld guy), I'll sometimes build in a 9-12 hour connection in London versus a four hour connection. Sometimes it not only helps me avoid arriving in my destination at 2am, but I can also have a day to explore the area around London...despite my hundreds of visits over the years, there's always somewhere new to see, to eat, to drink before hopping back on the plane. 

[SelectSys]

6 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Would you take a connection to save $20?  $50?  $100? $200?

 

The savings can be be way more to take a connecting flight depending on the class of the ticket and airline flexibility. 

 

Two other ways to save money on flights are 1) to fly from a nearby city and 2) have some date flexibility.  I have used both of these strategies starting trips as far away as Seattle from my "home airport" in San Diego.  I would say that more than 50% of my international flights start at airports other at SAN.  Additionally, on my last flight home from my recent river cruise dropped by $1200 by simply delaying my departure 2 days than if I had left immediately following the trip.  This flight also terminated in LAX rather than SAN.

 

I also want to emphasize a point made by @sunviking90 with respect to one way long haul flights often associated with transatlantic or transpacific cruises.  As was previously implied, I think these flights are great options for the use of airline miles (at least on American) as there is no one way penalty when using them for trips.  My strategy on these types of flights is to find an acceptable mileage-based fare up front and then try to improve my points redemption value as it gets closer to flight time if a better price/class of service is available.

 

[envy4u]

Quite the discussion I started lol. Update….I booked a nonstop with Air Canada with EZair. Saved a bit vs booking directly with the airline. We have decided that it’s worth the extra cost going direct.  A little nervous as I have never done booked EZair so hopefully all goes smoothly. Still don’t know if luggage is included. 

[SoloAlaska]

13 hours ago, envy4u said:

Quite the discussion I started lol. Update….I booked a nonstop with Air Canada with EZair. Saved a bit vs booking directly with the airline. We have decided that it’s worth the extra cost going direct.  A little nervous as I have never done booked EZair so hopefully all goes smoothly. Still don’t know if luggage is included. 

Depending on your card it doesn’t matter what you used to book to get your free luggage. I have a business credit card with first free luggage plus lounge access but I don’t need to have paid with it to get the perks. The benefits are linked to my aeroplan account so any AC flight I take I get free luggage.

[6rugrats]

 Many airline branded cards require your flight purchase be made directly on the airline’s webpage and be fully paid by that card.  In addition, your frequent flyer number must be on the reservation.  You just need to check what benefits/requirements your card offers.

Edited June 13 by 6rugrats

[SoloAlaska]

1 hour ago, 6rugrats said:

 Many airline branded cards require your flight purchase be made directly on the airline’s webpage and be fully paid by that card.  In addition, your frequent flyer number must be on the reservation.  You just need to check what benefits/requirements your card offers.

Many do but the Aeroplan Amex I have does not. You need to pay in full direct for the insurance to cover the flight but not for the one piece of free luggage and lounge access. Totally read the fine print and know what you get and how with your card so there’s no surprises. 

[Shmoo here]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:09 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

Just because you are doing a triangle with an unflown leg does NOT make it an open jaw.  For a routing to be an open jaw, the unflown leg must be the shortest of the three segments.  FCO to FLL is not the shortest.

 

Then, for the second NO NO NO.

 

An open jaw is not "basically 2 one-way tickets".  And open jaw, when the routing rules and distances are applicable, is the combination of:

 

1/2 of the round-trip price for the first flown segment (in this case YYZ-FCO-YYZ)

plus

1/2 of the round-trip price for the second flown segment (in this case FLL-YYZ-FLL)

 

It is not just adding one-way prices together.  However, in the OP situation, the unflown leg is NOT the shortest, thus open-jaw pricing does not apply.  (It's actually the longest)

 

For reference: 

YYZ FCO = 4415 mi

FCO FLL = 5167 mi

FLL YYZ = 1214 mi

So you are saying that OP must purchase 3 airline tickets?  The trip from Rome to Ft Lauderdale is via a cruise ship.  OP is asking for flights from Toronto to Rome and then Ft Lauderdale to Toronto as a roundtrip. It's not.  It's my understanding that, if someone books round trip tickets and fails to use one leg of it, the other leg(s) could be cancelled.

[FlyerTalker]

14 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

So you are saying that OP must purchase 3 airline tickets?  The trip from Rome to Ft Lauderdale is via a cruise ship.  OP is asking for flights from Toronto to Rome and then Ft Lauderdale to Toronto as a roundtrip. It's not.  It's my understanding that, if someone books round trip tickets and fails to use one leg of it, the other leg(s) could be cancelled.

 

Too much to unpack.  I give up.

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

28 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

So you are saying that OP must purchase 3 airline tickets?  The trip from Rome to Ft Lauderdale is via a cruise ship.  OP is asking for flights from Toronto to Rome and then Ft Lauderdale to Toronto as a roundtrip. It's not.  It's my understanding that, if someone books round trip tickets and fails to use one leg of it, the other leg(s) could be cancelled.

No, @FlyerTalker didn't say that. Two flights...YYZ-FCO, and FLL-YYZ. FlyerTalk was explaining the distances involved to explain its an open jaw situation...the distance from Rome to FLL is greater than both of the other legs. So two one way flights need to be purchased.

 

Yes, if you have multiple segments on an PNR, and you cancel one, subsequent segments can be canceled. However, as this requires two one way flights and PNRs, canceling a segment on one PNR would not impact the other PNR. 

[sverigecruiser]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:16 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

Yes, everyone wants a non-stop.  But take the time to ask yourself, what is the incremental cost differential that I would pay for a non-stop vs one-stop?  Or what is the discount I would need to move to a one-stop?  Think of the economic costs of various options and decide how much a non-stop is worth TO YOU.   Would you take a connection to save $20?  $50?  $100? $200?

 

 

I normally don't! My choice is normally to fly with British Airways even when I can fly non-stop with another airline.

[waterbug123]

1 hour ago, Shmoo here said:

So you are saying that OP must purchase 3 airline tickets?  The trip from Rome to Ft Lauderdale is via a cruise ship.  OP is asking for flights from Toronto to Rome and then Ft Lauderdale to Toronto as a roundtrip. It's not.  It's my understanding that, if someone books round trip tickets and fails to use one leg of it, the other leg(s) could be cancelled.

No.  Flytertalker is saying that to book an open jaw/multi-city ticket like the OP would prefer, the unflown leg (in this case the leg where travel is by cruise ship Rome to Ft. Lauderdale) must be the shortest leg.  In the OP's case, it is not.   If the OP was cruising from Rome to Barcelona, the unflown leg would be the shortest leg of the overall trip, and they would be able to purchase and open jaw ticket YYZ-FCO with return BCN-YYZ.  But when the unflown leg is a transatlantic cruise, it doesn't usually work.

 

[LeeW]

Another option with points - it cost less to buy enough points from United for two people to fly DEN-LHR premium economy than it was to fly one person with cash.  That airline often runs sales that double the number of points for a given price.