Could/Should Princess Merge with Holland? A Mega (30 Ship) Princess Cruise Line?

[PrincessLuver]

Why not merge both under Princes, rename the ships (Ex:Princess New Amsterdam) and make Princess a super power in the cruise industry. Other industries have shown mergers to be successful (Virgin-Alaska Airlines, Amazon - Whole Foods..)

 

I would assume then that the economy of scale would lend to better cruise fares and increased value for the cruise passenger, yes? So the net result - better food, better on ship experience, more bang for your $$$, more itineraries.

 

So you are the person with the bright idea who said if the airlines merge their passengers will get better prices for flights, better in flight food, more comfortable and spacious seats, more perks such as more free baggage to take on a flight, more flights to chose from, expanded service at airports, less hassles when flying.....:):D;);p:'):cool:

[chisoxfan]

The different takes expressed between these lines are fascinating and of course proves that variety is the spice of life. We really like HAL (two cruises) and found better entertainment (BBKings!)better food overall (I know subjective like many things), great pool dining venue, and the ability to reserve a poolside cabana for the week. So we have dumped Princess because of disappointment after our last CB cruise and would book HAL in a minute. From our experience I would even say it is hard to believe they are owned by the same parent. JMHO

[DrivesLikeMario]

Should they merge? No. They are two totally different cruise lines with different demographics, different styles, different viewpoints. I don't find them 90% similar at all.

[Lynniepoo]

Hi donswife,

I can’t say for sure. I was talking with the Captain of The Duck Boat and boy she is really good looking.

No i’m not talking about the duck boat. :D

The Captain of The Rowboat,

Tony

 

 

just fuggedaboutit! :D

[stevenr597]

Having sailed on Princess and Holland America, I strongly disagree that the two lines are very similar. To put it bluntly, if HAL had not been absorbed into Carnival Cruise Inc, they would have disappeared. Holland America depends very heavily on booking large charter groups on their ships to keep going.

 

Their ships are generally smaller, yet do not offer the refined service one sees on smaller ships. At night, it is not uncommon to get bored at the lack of entertainment.

 

HAL is not nearly in the same class as Princess or Celebrity.

[geoherb]

I find HAL to be a close second to Princess. Celebrity disappointed us the last time we sailed on one of its ships. We haven't been back. It was our fourth cruise on Celebrity and the other ones had been fine. I wouldn't mind booking another if I found a great deal, but lately we've received better deals on HAL and Princess--plus OBC for being a shareholder and having FCDs.

[RDC1]

Having sailed on Princess and Holland America, I strongly disagree that the two lines are very similar. To put it bluntly, if HAL had not been absorbed into Carnival Cruise Inc, they would have disappeared. Holland America depends very heavily on booking large charter groups on their ships to keep going.

 

Their ships are generally smaller, yet do not offer the refined service one sees on smaller ships. At night, it is not uncommon to get bored at the lack of entertainment.

 

HAL is not nearly in the same class as Princess or Celebrity.

 

Same with Princess who also got absorbed because they would have gone under (bankrupt) if not for Carnival buying them. A lot more cruise lines have failed and either been purchased or gone out of business, than continue in business.

[TheRabbit]

The Captain of The Rowboat,

Tony

Tony,

Isn't calling yourself the Captain of the row boat like say you wear the pants in your house when you wife's not around!

 

John

Second in command

[pris993]

while the two lines are similar in some ways, they are different enough to keep them separate... we are elite on Princess and 2 star on HAL... I expect different experiences when I go on the two lines... no reason to merge in my mind.

[Haboob]

I understand that both cruise lines are under the Carnival Corporation umbrella.

 

And I've never cruised HAL but from what I've read on these boards from others (and Pam in CA) that both lines are about 90% similar in many regards?

 

I don't understand the need for Carnival Corp to continue on with both cruiselines when one mega-cruiseline could cater to existing clientele.

 

Why not merge both under Princes, rename the ships (Ex:Princess New Amsterdam) and make Princess a super power in the cruise industry. Other industries have shown mergers to be successful (Virgin-Alaska Airlines, Amazon - Whole Foods..)

 

I would assume then that the economy of scale would lend to better cruise fares and increased value for the cruise passenger, yes? So the net result - better food, better on ship experience, more bang for your $$$, more itineraries.

 

Uhhh... Silly question, since "under the Carnival umbrella" means owned by Carnival

and already enjoying as much economy of scale that Carnival finds useful. For

example, both HAL and Princess medical staff are hired and supervised by the HAL

headquarters.

 

Edit: Make that PRINCESS. ::blush::

Edited April 9, 2018 by Haboob
Disobedient fingers while composing

[Lucky TGO]

Tony,

Isn't calling yourself the Captain of the row boat like say you wear the pants in your house when you wife's not around!

 

John

Second in command

 

John, I love it you could be right :eek:

The Jr. Captain of The Rowboat.:D:D:D

Tony

[Hlitner]

When folks say that HAL and Princess are mostly alike, I just smile and think, yeah they are as much alike as the Holland Tunnel and the GW Bridge. We cruise both lines...but one attraction to us is that they are very different (in lots of ways) which suits our desire for variety in our travel. And before somebody says I have no clue (DW tells me that every day) we have over 500 days on HAL and about 250 on Princess.

 

Hank

[NoWhiners]

When folks say that HAL and Princess are mostly alike, I just smile and think, yeah they are as much alike as the Holland Tunnel and the GW Bridge. We cruise both lines...but one attraction to us is that they are very different (in lots of ways) which suits our desire for variety in our travel. And before somebody says I have no clue (DW tells me that every day) we have over 500 days on HAL and about 250 on Princess.

 

Hank

 

Hank

 

Thanks for posting this. I was trying to think of a tactful and polite way to say HAL is not for "old people" (I am very tired of that stereotype) and there are differences between HAL and Princess.

 

You did it for me :)

[Nebr.cruiser]

I definitely don't want anymore merging of cruise lines; they are getting too much alike now.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say we'd never cruise with HA again, but after one cruise with them, we are not eager to repeat, while we've sailed 13 times with Princess.

 

I don't know if I can put my finger on the difference, just something was missing on Hal.

[2 cruises a year]

John, I love it you could be right :eek:

The Jr. Captain of The Rowboat.:D:D:D

Tony

 

Tony,

Isn't calling yourself the Captain of the row boat like say you wear the pants in your house when you wife's not around!

 

John

Second in command

 

Or like saying "I'm the Boss, and I have my wife's permission to say that".

[Lucky TGO]

Or like saying "I'm the Boss, and I have my wife's permission to say that".

 

John your killing me :D. If you ever get to Boston? You’ll be welcome aboard The Rowboat for a cruise on the Charles River.

Tony

[Haboob]

Or like saying "I'm the Boss, and I have my wife's permission to say that".

 

Nah!

 

I am the Boss. I decide the important stuff: what do we do if the Martians land, or

should we invade China, etc. The penny-ante stuff I leave to her: Where we live,

what we eat, when we cruise... :halo:

[Lucky TGO]

Nah!

 

I am the Boss. I decide the important stuff: what do we do if the Martians land, or

should we invade China, etc. The penny-ante stuff I leave to her: Where we live,

what we eat, when we cruise... :halo:

 

Haboob, I like your style!!! :D She knows who the boss is. :o

Can you do me a favor let me know when the Martians are coming. :D

Tony

[Wishing on a star]

We are putting a deposit on the HAL new-build for a 10 day European.

I would love if you guys who sail both could give me al little run-down on the differences.

I do think that we will spring for the specialty dining package. (if we don't get that as a perk).

As, I am thinking on HAL that this would be much preferable to the one cavernous MDR.

 

If the design and decor of their Koningsdam, compared to the Regal, seem to be any indication, That will be a shortcoming for HAL on that one.

 

What about the pools?

HAL is saltwater? How much of a difference is that from Princess fresh-water pools?

 

Thanks for any input!

 

PS: I am with the camp that things that huge mergers are not usually a good thing.

[beg3yrs]

John, I love it you could be right :eek:

The Jr. Captain of The Rowboat.:D:D:D

Tony

 

You are the Captain of all you survey. Anyway, that's what your wife the Admiral said.

[rkacruiser]

Merging the two companies? No.

 

Princess is a distinct brand just as HAL is. Look at the size of the new ships being built for the Lines. HAL's new vessels are "growing" in size. But, they are still smaller than the Princess newbuilds.

 

Princess' heritage is Italian. Their purchase in 1988 of Sitmar Cruises helped to cement that identity. Once being a part of the P&O family, that added the British dimension to the Company. HAL is Dutch. Their officers reflect that Dutch heritage as well as British and Irish as well. Their crew are Indonesians (another link to Holland) as well as Filipino. (Other nationalities are also appearing as crewing requirements arise, i.e. Indian.)

 

When Carnival Corporation's CEO, Mr. Arnold Donald, began his job, one of his stated goals in his first Quarterly Conference Call to financial analysts was to merge the Loyalty Rewards Programs of the CCL Companies into one integrated one. It has not happened. If merging something, that ought to be relatively "simple" to do into one cannot be done, merging Princess and HAL into one Company surely would be more complex.

 

The argument about the wisdom of "best practices" being applied to both cruise lines is a valid one. And, it is and has been a part of the Carnival Corporation's SOP since Mr. Arison was CEO and Chairman of Carnival Corporation.

[Hlitner]

Ok, I will try to talk about some differences which are probably somewhat less since you are comparing to HAL's newest ship. Keep in mind that most HAL ships are of a completely different design then the K'Dam. Most of the Princess ships (including all the Grand and Royal Class) have 3 separate (but equal) MDRs. HAL used a single MDR. To us this is an advantage to HAL since folks doing Open Dining (Anytime or Select dining) with Princess can sometimes find themselves bouncing back and forth between two different MDRs (on 2 decks) trying to figure out which one has the shortest queue.

 

A very big plus for Princess is their International Cafe....which is open 24/7. Nothing on HAL is open 24/7. The IC not only has a vast menu of coffee and tea drinks, but also a rotating (throughout the day) selection of food (all free) including fresh donuts, egg sandwiches, sandwiches and salads (offered after breakfast time), and more. DW and I will often hang out at the IC on many ships since its usually off the Atrium where there is often good people/activity watching. Another plus for Princess is that they have far longer hours for eating (in both their Lido and MDRs) then you will find on HAL. On HAL we often find ourself altering our schedule to fit the HAL open hours....versus Princess when we don;t even think about opening hours.

 

Another big difference is for late night owls....which we will call anyone who stays up after 10pm :). On most HAL cruises the ship will be close to a morgue after 10...while on Princess things will often be hopping until around midnight. We also think that Princess has superior bands to what we get on HAL. Part of this is because HAL banished brass and woodwinds to the sea....and replaced them with keyboards (how many ways can you say Roller Skating Rink sound).

 

Another plus for Princess is their buffets (especially on the newest Royal Class) that has a larger variety of food then you will find on HAL. On the other hand, the quality of the HAL Lido food is usually darn good. And when it comes to cabins, it really depends on the ships. Princess really paved the way with their Grand Class...which had a huge percentage of passenger cabins with nice balconies. HAL still has many ships with very few passenger balconies (except for the suites). The K'Dam...however, is more like the Princess vessels with many balconies. A plus for HAL is that nearly all cabins have a sofa (or small sofa) as part of their furniture. Most Princess ships just have a chair...and if you want a sofa you need to book a so-called mini-suite (which is not really a suite).

 

To us a big difference is the passenger demographics. On many of our HAL cruises it is all about seniors (we are in that class)...whereas on our Princess cruises we find a much wider age range with a somewhat lower median age. I am 70, and sometimes find myself among the younger crowd on HAL :). This carries through to the organized activities. HAL is all about Trivia....and a few cooking demos. We have watched some HAL CDs try to organize some activities on the pool deck during a sea day...and its often canceled due to the lack of eager participants :). Meanwhile on most Princess ships, they will have MUTS (Movies under the Stars (and sun)) and usually have some live entertainment on deck a few hours during afternoon sea days.

 

Hank

[BarbinMich]

We have sailed on Princess (30+), HAL (7), and Celebrity (10) over our 24 yrs of cruising. Obviously, we have ultimately preferred Princess. We've been on all 3 over the last 4 years so our experiences are fairly recent. Our last cruise was a EB TA on HAL's Zuiderdam, the largest HAL ship we've been on, chosen partly for the itinerary which offered two new ports (Horta, Azores; Cherbourg). We prefer Princess because it offers more entertainment, but with that comes more pax. We usually get an OV cabin and HAL's are much larger than on P (they have a couch); our HAL stewards were outstanding and we saw them daily. We eat nearly all our meals in the buffet (obviously fine dining isn't that important to us); on HAL one of the buffet workers "adopted" us early on and always helped us find a seat, which was greatly appreciated; plus she quickly learned our beverage choices. I loved the pool in HAL's spa, less expensive than the one on the Regal/Royal and more soothing. I'm sure these things we like on HAL are related to the ship's smaller size. You just won't find that kind of personal service on the much larger Princess & X ships. Plus, access to smaller and interesting ports is nice for a change (i.e. Cherbourg and Amsterdam, where we sailed right up the river to the heart of the city). Finally, HAL ships have spacious wraparound promenade decks. On the downside, check-in for our HAL cruise in FL was horrendous.

If the P and HAL were to merge, I don't think the things we like about each would change; mostly because of the difference in ship size.

[Lucky TGO]

You are the Captain of all you survey. Anyway, that's what your wife the Admiral said.

 

Wow!!! She’s a Admirl now?:eek: I think I’m in big trouble? :rolleyes:

Sorry I have to go John The Rabbit and Haboob just called The Martians..:D:o:D

The Captain of The Rowboat,

Tony

[Woobstr112G]

Mammoth corporations that sell one size fits all is not always a great idea. Carnival Corp is selling fun and appealing to different market segments. For the young and young at heart looking for inexpensive cruises there is CCL while for the more mature having left behind their young carefree days there is Princess. HAL seems to appeal to an older segment that does not want large ships or a lot of physical activity. While there are crossovers where some pax sail both, there are those that want a different experience and sail on Princess. Personally we like Princess after having sailed one time on HAL but that was over a decade ago. We are now moving into their demographic.

 

Carnival has already organized their cruise lines into groups with the Holland America Group controlling both HAL and Princess (plus Seaborn and P&O). By doing this they have consolidated various support activities like contracting etc realizing some cost savings. Princess is now able to concentrate on their customer base and what they want in a ship and cruise. Both have built up a customer loyalty that Carnival would not want to destroy or attempt to modify. I don't expect any merger now or in the future.

 

Well said.....:):):)

Bob