The future of Edge-class?

[tfred]

some here are assuming that the target market for new x ships are existing cruisers.  I think X wants to get who they ge rom the legacy crowd, but they are looking for upscale end users who have never cruised. Those folks don't know (or care) if the track used to be wider, or the martini bar used to have an ice counter or the taste of water - they just want an experience with their perceived needs.  That is not an overnight solution to find the new people, but every hotel brand/chain has done it

 

the core CC reader is an experienced cruiser and is likely skewed to what they think is the right way to do it based on past experiences.  It probably turns out that many of the items that people "have to have' are rarely used by most

[Globehoppers]

On 4/2/2019 at 8:12 AM, Fairsky84 said:

 

Agree. I can understand the 70yr old passenger whose cruise 40+ times not being a fan of Edge. That’s acceptable IF the ship is effectively drawing 35yr olds to cruising for the first time. Is there any evidence it’s working? 

 

While Edge-class might ultimately be ok for Celebrity once they work out the bugs and make some adjustments, can anyone think of another new class debut from RCI/Celebrity that has been met by so much criticism? Sure, every ship has its oddities but Quantum-class, Oasis-class, S-class... all were nearly universally praised for their design, innovation, cabin comfort, and layout. I don’t recall any M-class fans criticizing S-class when it launched. It was widely embraced as a step forward. Edge is the first new class I’ve seen that has received this degree of pushback, even if it’s not “most” passengers complaining the % is enough for Celebrity to take notice. 

 

We resemble that description.  First cruise I can remember is a trans-atlantic in 1949 as a child.

 

While Edge is not perfect - no cruise ship is - it offers a lot of innovation worthy of consideration by all cruise ship companies.

 

Love the IV idea.  Works well and extends the cabin, especially in the hot & humid Caribbean.  First experienced this on a river cruise some 5 years ago.  But what is with the heated mirrors - know the reason by it feels like your face is blasted with hot air.

 

Windows Cafe is well designed and inviting.  Food is wonderful.

 

Embarkation was a breeze.  The gangway area is the best in the cruise fleet.

 

Cabin charge station was perfect and long overdue.  Best cabin layout I've experienced for an "standard" size cabin.

 

The round theater was much better than expected and better than the standard "old" style.  Brought additional audience participation.

 

Eden is a very nice area but the seats are horrible!

 

The long dark passageways (hallways) and grey motif was really odd and even depressing.

 

Backlit stairs are very difficult and dangerous going down.

 

Need locator maps at least near elevators.  I don't carry an iPad around with me onboard.

 

Ship was confusing to navigate around.

 

The "hotel services" are is a total failure - and the guest services folks never responded to any phone calls.

 

Craziest may have been the dark "Sherwood Forest" area near Blu.  Scares little kids and us older adults.  

 

And what is it with the $50 Edge T-shirts.  Those should be almost free to improve advertising once home.

 

The ship did not give us an overall "Wow" impression.  Prefer the Solstice class and even the now aging M-class ships.  Maybe Princess has it right with the Royal class - improved theater seating and a fantastic buffet area and a nice, even if noisy, central Piazza.  Edge's was too small and very noisy.

[jan-n-john]

13 minutes ago, Globehoppers said:

 

 

The long dark passageways (hallways) and grey motif was really odd and even depressing.

 

Need locator maps at least near elevators.  I don't carry an iPad around with me onboard.

 

Ship was confusing to navigate around.

 

Craziest may have been the dark "Sherwood Forest" area near Blu.  Scares little kids and us older adults.  

 

 

I remarked that Celebrity must have ordered a rail tank car of gray paint and then proceeded to spray it everywhere.  But if you watch HGTV etc. you know that gray is THE TRENDY COLOR these days, so I guess one shouldn't be surprised.  It could have been worse. Hopefully they won't paint the next ship battleship gray and add gun turrets.

 

Locator maps like the little ship models in the S ships would be nice.  Maybe they are banking on everybody using their phones in the future so they'll have the maps at all times and won't be interested in the little models anyway?  The maps in the app are good once you figure out how to find them.

 

It takes time to learn the quirks of the ship's layout.  But to me it does make it more interesting, compared to those long hallways on the older ships. YMMV

 

That forest leading up to Eden is strange.  I assumed it was meant to set the stage for the "Eden experience," which itself is a bit strange, but that's how things are in 2019 and going forward.  Maybe it's the impact of "Game of Thrones" on pop culture? Mysticism is in!

 

 

 

 

[Smithster]

I am a frequent cruiser and love Celebrity.  We want to sail on Edge but when we sail with Celebrity we always get Aqua Class as love the Blu and Spa.  BUT with that said the price for Aqua is like triple of their other ships.  If we were to take a balcony prices are more in line.  I am disheartened to see the price difference on Aqua Class

[mnocket]

3 hours ago, tfred said:

some here are assuming that the target market for new x ships are existing cruisers.  I think X wants to get who they ge rom the legacy crowd, but they are looking for upscale end users who have never cruised. Those folks don't know (or care) if the track used to be wider, or the martini bar used to have an ice counter or the taste of water - they just want an experience with their perceived needs.  That is not an overnight solution to find the new people, but every hotel brand/chain has done it

 

the core CC reader is an experienced cruiser and is likely skewed to what they think is the right way to do it based on past experiences.  It probably turns out that many of the items that people "have to have' are rarely used by most

 

I think you make a good point.

 

I wonder what the breakout is between first-time vs repeat cruisers?

[villauk]

2 hours ago, jan-n-john said:

 

I remarked that Celebrity must have ordered a rail tank car of gray paint and then proceeded to spray it everywhere.  But if you watch HGTV etc. you know that gray is THE TRENDY COLOR these days, so I guess one shouldn't be surprised. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently not, according to many many designers - it’s so 2018 🤭.

 

‘There are more than fifty shades of gray and every single one was used in home décor in 2018. Gray walls became synonymous with style and everyone eagerly jumped on the bandwagon. The only problem? Gray walls quickly became overplayed.

Neutral colors will always have a place in your home, but gray is on the decline for 2019.’

 

Grey shades

“While there has been a bit of a craze for the color grey, I think this is likely to die down and stay that way for some time. The sometimes-bland color palette of a grey room doesn’t work as well as it used to.”

–  Charlie Worrall, Designer, NGI Design

 

According to Freshome:

‘Though it may be hard to believe that the era of “grey-everything” is coming to an end, it’s finally happening. In 2019, people are craving neutrals with more personality. If you’re looking for a neutral that will please the masses in the new year, go towards warmer tans and browns. Alternatively, a stark white can also be used to create a look that’s still on-trend.’

 

 

[jan-n-john]

13 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

Apparently not, according to many many designers - it’s so 2018 🤭.

 

‘There are more than fifty shades of gray and every single one was used in home décor in 2018. Gray walls became synonymous with style and everyone eagerly jumped on the bandwagon. The only problem? Gray walls quickly became overplayed.

Neutral colors will always have a place in your home, but gray is on the decline for 2019.’

 

Grey shades

“While there has been a bit of a craze for the color grey, I think this is likely to die down and stay that way for some time. The sometimes-bland color palette of a grey room doesn’t work as well as it used to.”

–  Charlie Worrall, Designer, NGI Design

 

According to Freshome:

‘Though it may be hard to believe that the era of “grey-everything” is coming to an end, it’s finally happening. In 2019, people are craving neutrals with more personality. If you’re looking for a neutral that will please the masses in the new year, go towards warmer tans and browns. Alternatively, a stark white can also be used to create a look that’s still on-trend.’

 

 

Well, but the ship got its paint job in 2018, and it was probably specified in 2017.  So there you are -- shows how quickly these trends come and go.  And whatever the latest trendy color is in 2019, according to the trendy designers, the one thing you can be sure of is that it will be soooo 2019 next year when the next trend shows up.  This is a game you can't win unless you are a designer who can bill clients lots of money or a paint company.  

 

There are also many shades of white, you know.  But let's not even go there.

Edited April 15, 2019 by jan-n-john

[UnorigionalName]

15 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

Apparently not, according to many many designers - it’s so 2018 🤭.

 

‘There are more than fifty shades of gray and every single one was used in home décor in 2018. Gray walls became synonymous with style and everyone eagerly jumped on the bandwagon. The only problem? Gray walls quickly became overplayed.

Neutral colors will always have a place in your home, but gray is on the decline for 2019.’

 

Grey shades

“While there has been a bit of a craze for the color grey, I think this is likely to die down and stay that way for some time. The sometimes-bland color palette of a grey room doesn’t work as well as it used to.”

–  Charlie Worrall, Designer, NGI Design

 

According to Freshome:

‘Though it may be hard to believe that the era of “grey-everything” is coming to an end, it’s finally happening. In 2019, people are craving neutrals with more personality. If you’re looking for a neutral that will please the masses in the new year, go towards warmer tans and browns. Alternatively, a stark white can also be used to create a look that’s still on-trend.’

 

 

 

I don't think there actually is that much of the gray that people complain about on the Edge and what those designers are talking about.  If you look, usually there is a lot of the trendy white breaking up the grays. and most spaces actually have more warm neutral colors than gray.    Like it's more or less exactly what the second guy is saying.  Most of the really gray areas use the stark white to break it up, and most of the other places if you look carefully are really more of a off-gray tan or brown.

[bEwAbG]

I had gray in my living room in 2005.  That trend came and went over a decade ago.  

[twodjs]

23 hours ago, hcat said:

Sorry but it was not a metallic taste per se...just not a good  refreshing taste!  ..dh agreed. We are not married to Fiji..but the 4 pack transports nicely due to the btl shape.. Publix or Zephyrhills would be fine too...We used to like the bue water btls we received daily in AQ class before that was taken away..old news!

 

The label  of the Metal btl water that was posted also showed that the Celeb water has salts...and other add ins. So no improvement really over what they serve in the mdr.

 

  Not looking to argue with an expert but the water is a NO Thank You... for us.  

No argument here - but it's important to present facts. Zephyrhills Spring is not salt-free. It has up to 6.8 parts per million (ppm) of sodium, up to 2.2 ppm of nitrate, up to 12 ppm of sulfate, plus other impurities and a total dissolved solids (tds) of 110-240 ppm. Fiji is not salt-free. It has 93 ppm of silica, plus other impurities and a tds of 222 ppm. The lower the tds number, the purer the water. Most companies who provide purified water ( Dasani, Smartwater, Sparkletts, Kirkland and Celebrity come to mind) all use either reverse osmosis or distillation to remove the impurities, including those listed above. Then they add a small amount of elements or electrolytes for taste, usually to a level of only about 25 ppm. So all of these waters are much purer than any spring water. Taste is completely subjective - you are used to water with a higher tds. I prefer purer water with a lower tds. But now you have the facts. Your choice. 

[hcat]

I am going to go with  my taste buds preference over lab results on the water...

 

.Same as my  preference for happy  beige neutral tones over the greys chosen on EDGE.. They are not happy grays and not supported by good contrasts!  Just my opinion.

 

 

[TeeRick]

There is a lot of gray (or grey) tones on Edge no doubt.  But it is generally very well done.  Some think it might be compared to a WW2 battleship but really it is different shades of gray and white with matching wood grains and a lot of colors from artwork, furniture and accessories.  The Eden area is quite green and tranquil.  

[hcat]

29 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

There is a lot of gray (or grey) tones on Edge no doubt.  But it is generally very well done.  Some think it might be compared to a WW2 battleship but really it is different shades of gray and white with matching wood grains and a lot of colors from artwork, furniture and accessories.  The Eden area is quite green and tranquil.  

EDEN is beautifully done,....except for the kiddie furniture and I agree about the artwork...very nice collection...

[Cruising Forever!]

On 4/10/2019 at 8:52 PM, twodjs said:

Geez...you're talking like the ship is a disaster. Have you cruised on Edge? We did and had a great time. They have tweaked a lot. And even the issues with the IV cabins are fixable. Let's not put the nails in the coffin just yet!

 

Exactly.  This all sooo reminds me of all the "M" class people that HATED the "S" class when they debuted.

As I stated a while back with regards to the IVs and future "E" class ships (Edge and Apex could be retrofitted later)... 

 

1) Remove the folding doors... they serve NO purpose.

 

2) If keeping the folding doors (why?  it's supposed to be an "infinite veranda") then put curtains on them and make them air-tight.  (I like the idea proposed here by another poster that they put curtains inside the glass!)  Also, allow these folding doors to control the AC/Heat off/on state (this HAS to be what was originally envisioned... else the IV folding doors are a BIG stupid design blunder)

 

3) Also, put smaller Queen size beds in the IVs if they are, as some have said, King size beds.  The cabins are too small for a King size bed.  (I'm not a huge person, but the space between the foot of the beds and the wall opposite looks very tight indeed)  If they are actually Queen size beds that are standard in all Celebrity ships, then the IVs must be incredibly narrow?  (perhaps to support the Window mechanism and size of the Window?)

 

All of these fixes would be easy, or could be done in easy steps if not all at once.  Removing the folding doors would be my favorite option.  But if they put light blocking curtains on them instead, that solves a problem immediately.  (A cottage industry could probably sell cheap flat light blocking material that would hook up magnetically assuming the folding doors are metal that's magnetic...)  If future "E" class ships did this, Celebrity could completely do away with the slow moving shade and its mechanism.  Less breakdown potential (can you imagine how "fun" your IV would be with that shade stuck closed?).  

 

I'm still planning to sail on Edge next year... and I'm sure we will love our IV cabin (I WISH we could afford the Aqua-Class IV though!!!) since all of you here (both those who hate them and those who love them) have given me even more to go on.

[hcat]

We had an IV AQ class cabin...bed by balc..  Big bed was right up to the veranda edge..We jeot the bifolds open..not sure how tight it would be  if they are closed..  walking around the bed to the Veranda space was tight but okay.  They just made the cabins and the verandas too small..esp with the bigger bed

[cangelmd]

On 4/12/2019 at 8:23 AM, tfred said:

the numbers that really matter are if they are getting new, here to fore, non-cruisers on board at higher prices.  X really doesn't want to trade market share with other cruise lines with pax looking for a 'deal".  The "deal" people can go somewhere else - maybe RCCL

 

Are the amount of existing X pax leaving being replaced by traditional, land based resort vacationers that see the ship a a reasonable value?  Those folks come from Las Vegas, Scottsdale, etc resorts that are used to spending big money.  Vegas isn't cheap anymore - hotels and food.   

 

There will probably be some adjustment on price, but don't expect pre Edge pricing to come back.  They will just raise the onboard value proposition with drink packages, internet etc.

Finally, someone posts who I think captures what I have been thinking all this time.

WE are NOT the target audience for Edge.

Age has been discussed a lot, but I think the target audience is non-cruisers, regardless of age, and CC members are not non-cruisers.

Moving into real speculation, it seems like Edge was done as a concept ship from the keel to the decor and where choices are becoming impractical for a ship at sea and for cruisers, they are listening to feedback and making changes.

someone posted recently that they were told while on Edge, that the upper deck restaurant was going to have some sort of enclosure or windbreak installed ASAP, because the restaurant was not being sold because it was too windy - that’s the type of design choice I’m talking about.

With the IVs, I’m not sure they want you to be too comfy in the cabin, they want pax out and about spending money on the ship.

[jan-n-john]

9 hours ago, Cruising Forever! said:

 

 

3) Also, put smaller Queen size beds in the IVs if they are, as some have said, King size beds.  The cabins are too small for a King size bed.  (I'm not a huge person, but the space between the foot of the beds and the wall opposite looks very tight indeed)  If they are actually Queen size beds that are standard in all Celebrity ships, then the IVs must be incredibly narrow?  (perhaps to support the Window mechanism and size of the Window?)

 

 

 

Not sure about the king/queen remark.  Standard Kings and Queens are the same length (80" or 203.5cm) so it would make no difference in the space from the foot of the beds to the wall to get around them (not true of California kings (4" more in length, 4" less in width) but that's another matter).  In any case when you order 1500 beds all at once you can pretty well specify the exact dimensions you want (don't those beds also have non-standard rounded corners?) so I assume Celebrity's designers sized them to their exact optimal sizes within a half inch of whatever is optimal for that space.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by jan-n-john

[tfred]

this is why there are King beds instead of Queen beds.  Smaller beds were fun when you were in college, but not as an adult dropping big green.  Making the rooms bigger isn't really an answer anyway - too expensive.  X knows how much time is spent in the room every day by analyzing door locks opening and closing data - it is probably less than you think.  Need more room?  Buy a suite

 

Adult Obesity in the United States

Updated September 2018: According to the most recent Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) data, adult obesity rates now exceed 35% in seven states, 30% in 29 states and 25% in 48 states. West Virginia has the highest adult obesity rate at 38.1% and Colorado has the lowest at 22.6%. The adult obesity rate increased in Iowa, Massachusetts, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island and South Carolina between 2016 and 2017, and remained stable in the rest of states.

[Globehoppers]

10 hours ago, Cruising Forever! said:

 

Exactly.  This all sooo reminds me of all the "M" class people that HATED the "S" class when they debuted.

As I stated a while back with regards to the IVs and future "E" class ships (Edge and Apex could be retrofitted later)... 

 

1) Remove the folding doors... they serve NO purpose.

 

2) If keeping the folding doors (why?  it's supposed to be an "infinite veranda") then put curtains on them and make them air-tight.  (I like the idea proposed here by another poster that they put curtains inside the glass!)  Also, allow these folding doors to control the AC/Heat off/on state (this HAS to be what was originally envisioned... else the IV folding doors are a BIG stupid design blunder)

 

3) Also, put smaller Queen size beds in the IVs if they are, as some have said, King size beds.  The cabins are too small for a King size bed.  (I'm not a huge person, but the space between the foot of the beds and the wall opposite looks very tight indeed)  If they are actually Queen size beds that are standard in all Celebrity ships, then the IVs must be incredibly narrow?  (perhaps to support the Window mechanism and size of the Window?)

 

All of these fixes would be easy, or could be done in easy steps if not all at once.  Removing the folding doors would be my favorite option.  But if they put light blocking curtains on them instead, that solves a problem immediately.  (A cottage industry could probably sell cheap flat light blocking material that would hook up magnetically assuming the folding doors are metal that's magnetic...)  If future "E" class ships did this, Celebrity could completely do away with the slow moving shade and its mechanism.  Less breakdown potential (can you imagine how "fun" your IV would be with that shade stuck closed?).  

 

I'm still planning to sail on Edge next year... and I'm sure we will love our IV cabin (I WISH we could afford the Aqua-Class IV though!!!) since all of you here (both those who hate them and those who love them) have given me even more to go on.

 

We never closed the bi-fold doors of the AQ cabin.  Tropical heat is increasingly uncomfortable for us so using that space as extra cabin was very nice.  

 

Some of the criticism of Edge can be led to the prices Celebrity is charging.  We booked our AQ cabin almost two years ago wanting to experience the new "wow" class (we weren't wowed, as I said).  It was expensive then and several months prior to sailing the price had doubled to an unreasonable level.  As prices stabilize to Solstice levels it will be a toss-up as to which class we take (we also like the "M" class) and will be based on itinerary more than "new" ship.

 

Addendum: no issue with the bed size.  "Standard" size cabins on Solstice class are just as tight.  To be expected on a cruise ship unless opting for a suite which we have done on many occasions and doing again on Reflection for its Mardi Gras cruise in 2020.  As we "mature" more space, easier to reach (those overhead bins on the Solstice class are horrible) becomes a priority.  Spouse selects cabins based on bathrooms...  Best one ever was a Royal Suite which had a bathroom the size of a standard cabin with double sinks and separate shower and tub with a hot tub on the balcony...

[hcat]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

this is why there are King beds instead of Queen beds.  Smaller beds were fun when you were in college, but not as an adult dropping big green.  Making the rooms bigger isn't really an answer anyway - too expensive.  X knows how much time is spent in the room every day by analyzing door locks opening and closing data - it is probably less than you think.  Need more room?  Buy a suite

 

Adult Obesity in the United States

 

Updated September 2018: According to the most recent Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) data, adult obesity rates now exceed 35% in seven states, 30% in 29 states and 25% in 48 states. West Virginia has the highest adult obesity rate at 38.1% and Colorado has the lowest at 22.6%. The adult obesity rate increased in Iowa, Massachusetts, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island and South Carolina between 2016 and 2017, and remained stable in the rest of states.

 

Wow... big  beds for big people!.  We have a queen  bed in our home and vacation home....Could fit a king  in either but prefer more space in the room..

 

Having the bed by bath means having to step over onto the veranda at times for the person next to that space. Nightstand is almost  right up to the bi-fold track.. Not sure how it affects the  IVs with the big bed by the closet.

[twodjs]

Was there a huge outcry when the S class debuted with queen-size beds? Don't remember any. The problem in the IV is not the length so much as the width of the bed. It is too big for the room layout and caused them to shorten the length of the veranda to accomodate the bed. We have a queen-size bed in our home. If I'm paying big bucks for a cabin, a larger veranda, folding doors that are air tight, and blackout curtains on the cabin side of the folding doors are much more important than a king sized bed. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this comment, but if you need a bed so big that you can't (or don't want) to reach over and touch your partner, you have more important issues than bed size!

[tfred]

THE SeaPass card is a giant data collector for every activity on board ship.  They know everything about your activities, how much you spend and all the demographics of that

 

This is a resort that floats - not a ship that goes places.  Ports are complaining that less pax are getting off ship than ever before.  That tells X that people are less concerned about where they are going and more about the ship/experience on board since they stay on board

 

How much time do you spend in a land based resort hotel room?  Probably just to sleep, an afternoon nap, shower and get changed for dinner.  Very few are watching TV or reading a book. X made a conscious decision to emulate the land based resorts to attract those people.  I think that most want to be on deck doing something.  Want privacy and a big veranda?  get a suite

 

Pax that like to hang out on the balcony, don't drink, gamble and no specialty restaurants are unprofitable and no one is building ships based on that model

[twodjs]

Hi tfred - well, Virgin Voyages has bigger balconies on their ship, debuting in 2020. I guarantee you that we will enjoy our balcony (our suite balcony is almost 400 sq. ft.!) and drink (no drink package is offered - interesting move on Virgin's part) and gamble. All food venues are included so no problem there. They're bucking the norm, of course because they're Virgin, but to say "no one" is not correct. 

[hcat]

1 hour ago, twodjs said:

Was there a huge outcry when the S class debuted with queen-size beds? Don't remember any. The problem in the IV is not the length so much as the width of the bed. It is too big for the room layout and caused them to shorten the length of the veranda to accomodate the bed. We have a queen-size bed in our home. If I'm paying big bucks for a cabin, a larger veranda, folding doors that are air tight, and blackout curtains on the cabin side of the folding doors are much more important than a king sized bed. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this comment, but if you need a bed so big that you can't (or don't want) to reach over and touch your partner, you have more important issues than bed size!

Exactly the issue.. the bed is too wide for the space. Only inches to spare and the veranda is just too small to be very useful. 

 

. Whether the IV concept is  preferred or hated, the  fact is that  someone did not do a very good room  layout. Computerized design or not!

[Luvcrusn]

5 hours ago, tfred said:

THE SeaPass card is a giant data collector for every activity on board ship.  They know everything about your activities, how much you spend and all the demographics of that

 

This is a resort that floats - not a ship that goes places.  Ports are complaining that less pax are getting off ship than ever before.  That tells X that people are less concerned about where they are going and more about the ship/experience on board since they stay on board

 

How much time do you spend in a land based resort hotel room?  Probably just to sleep, an afternoon nap, shower and get changed for dinner.  Very few are watching TV or reading a book. X made a conscious decision to emulate the land based resorts to attract those people.  I think that most want to be on deck doing something.  Want privacy and a big veranda?  get a suite

 

Pax that like to hang out on the balcony, don't drink, gamble and no specialty restaurants are unprofitable and no one is building ships based on that model

I'm not disputing what you're saying but am curious about how you know ports are complaining about passengers not getting off the ships.