Interesting Development Re Service Dogs

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, Potstech said:

You keep ass-u-ming things not in evidence.  Nowhere does it say cruise lines are pet free. So far you have seen that your assumptions are false.

I take back my earlier comment and attach PRINCESS CRUISE LINES stated policy:

Service animals are not pets so my opinion stands. When in doubt, tactfully quietly report and let them figure it out. Just bc someone doesn't look disabled doesn't mean they aren't. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Ombud

[MixerDave]

I just wonder when people say their service dog "can detect low blood sugar, etc" what they do on an excursion.  Can "Fluffy" detect from a cruise ship balcony while there owner is off the ship, or is this all BS?

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, MixerDave said:

I just wonder when people say their service dog "can detect low blood sugar, etc" what they do on an excursion.  Can "Fluffy" detect from a cruise ship balcony while there owner is off the ship, or is this all BS?

 

Service animals are not to be left in the cabin unattended.  A diabetic alert animal should be with its owner at all times.

[pms4104]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Service animals are not to be left in the cabin unattended.  A diabetic alert animal should be with its owner at all times.

And the cruiseline can require that a pax and his/her service animal be with each other 24/7?  

[Ombud]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:16 PM, CZEE said:

I was perusing a private forum on another platform when I came upon a post from a woman, currently on a Princess ship with some sort of emotional support/service animal.  From previous posts, she claims to have some disability.  An (1) elderly man, 90s according to her, accosted her about having the dog.  I guess he was surprised by its presence and may not have handled it well.  My filters may be gone if I get to reach that age.  LOL 

 

According to her post, she escalated the confrontation and the dog got involved. (2) She then threatened to turn her dog loose on anyone at any time (present or future cruises) who dared question her right to have a dog on the ship.  It appears there may have been drinking involved as it was after the Captains Circle Party. From the scene she claims to have made, security has likely dealt with the situation.  I took a screenshot of the interchange before it was taken down but will not post it here. Not sure if I should send it to Princess or even how to.  It might just be a drunken post.

 

Guess (3) Princess is going to have to address proper use of emotional support/service animals if other passengers are going to be threatened by the owner.  If I was on that particular ship and saw the post.  I'd take it right down to security.   

Going back to the OP and addressing several numbered points:

(1) report & leave to those in authority to sequester her & the dog if its just an ESA

(2) obviously not a working service dog

(3) they have. True certified service dogs allowed, ESA not allowed 

how could it be any clearer?

[Shmoo here]

1 hour ago, pms4104 said:

And the cruiseline can require that a pax and his/her service animal be with each other 24/7?  

No, only that the animal may not be left in a room unattended.  Wouldn't have to be the owner.

[pms4104]

12 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

No, only that the animal may not be left in a room unattended.  Wouldn't have to be the owner.

In which case, the animal cannot serve or work for its owner/handler during that time

Edited November 15, 2019 by pms4104

[richstowe]

8 hours ago, rugerdog said:

 

I'm currently dealing with this as we speak.  We'll see how the cruise line handles it.

Looking forward to your report .

6 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

And just how frequently do you think this occurs?  Seriously!  Do you really think that people are bringing Rover on a cruise where there is no where to run around, play and do its business?  It's not like the ports of call are going to allow Rover to leave the ship.  Rover can't come with you when you go zip-lining in Roatan, or go to the Academia in Florence, or climb up the Acropolis.  Are there that many people who bring Rover on board and them leave him confined to quarters while they go out and enjoy their excursions?  Or do you think that there are that many people who go on cruises with Rover who never leave the ship themselves and  hang out all day in their cabins with Rover?  People who think that "pet dogs" on cruise ships are a real problem are seeing ghosts.  Probably one in a hundred thousand guests, if that.

I have seen 3 or 4 comfort dogs on board and another with a vest that was clearly not a trained service animal . I'm positive this is perhaps half of the pets that were actually on my cruises . So  your " one in a hundred thousand guests, if that " is severely under estimating the problem . Rover's owners are self-indulgent narcissists who may actually feel they need to bring their special soul-mate . They are still wrong to do so 🙄

[Shmoo here]

24 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

In which case, the animal cannot serve or work for its owner/handler during that time

True, but the question was:

2 hours ago, pms4104 said:

And the cruiseline can require that a pax and his/her service animal be with each other 24/7?  

 

 

 

 

[JimmyVWine]

2 hours ago, richstowe said:

I have seen 3 or 4 comfort dogs on board and another with a vest that was clearly not a trained service animal .

The Princess policy has been clearly stated in this thread. Emotional support animals are not permitted. So why are you so certain that the people traveling with dogs did not have the proper paperwork? Do you really think that Princess is looking the other way and not enforcing its own policy?  Kind of a big risk to fly to a departure port with your non-qualifying pet  hoping that you could sneak the dog on board. The risk of being wrong is monumental. The dog would be denied boarding and so would the owner. No refund. Who would roll those dice? We’re not talking about having a pint of rum confiscated. The more likely scenario is that the dogs you are seeing are providing a service for a disability that you cannot see.  People showing up with dogs who are not qualified to board and putting their vacation worth thousands of dollars at risk? Doesn’t add up. 

[caribill]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

The Princess policy has been clearly stated in this thread. Emotional support animals are not permitted. So why are you so certain that the people traveling with dogs did not have the proper paperwork? Do you really think that Princess is looking the other way and not enforcing its own policy?  Kind of a big risk to fly to a departure port with your non-qualifying pet  hoping that you could sneak the dog on board. The risk of being wrong is monumental. The dog would be denied boarding and so would the owner. No refund. Who would roll those dice? We’re not talking about having a pint of rum confiscated. The more likely scenario is that the dogs you are seeing are providing a service for a disability that you cannot see.  People showing up with dogs who are not qualified to board and putting their vacation worth thousands of dollars at risk? Doesn’t add up. 

 

"Proper" paperwork is available over the Internet for a few bucks.

 

Laws prevent Princess from questioning the need if "proper" paperwork is provided.

 

 

[Haboob]

2 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

The Princess policy has been clearly stated in this thread. Emotional support animals are not permitted. So why are you so certain that the people traveling with dogs did not have the proper paperwork? Do you really think that Princess is looking the other way and not enforcing its own policy?  Kind of a big risk to fly to a departure port with your non-qualifying pet  hoping that you could sneak the dog on board. The risk of being wrong is monumental. The dog would be denied boarding and so would the owner. No refund. Who would roll those dice? We’re not talking about having a pint of rum confiscated. The more likely scenario is that the dogs you are seeing are providing a service for a disability that you cannot see.  People showing up with dogs who are not qualified to board and putting their vacation worth thousands of dollars at risk? Doesn’t add up. 

Alas, too many animals which provide a "service for disability" are not as well-behaved as an animal trained to "service animal" standards, and the [adjective omitted] folks who abuse the deference given to true "service animals" in order to take their precious Fluffy along are the whole point of the thread.

 

It's not the visibility of the owner's need that's in question, it's the training and demeanor of the animal, especially when you read such things as "the animal should have good social skills" on some emotional support animal registries.  "Should"?!?

Edited November 15, 2019 by Haboob

[Mavis and Me]

8 hours ago, pms4104 said:

And the cruiseline can require that a pax and his/her service animal be with each other 24/7?  

Not at all. My dog works hard all day long, and once I remove her gear and put her ‘to bed’ at night, she is off duty. If I must go out again, I will try to take a service ‘human’ (hubby or kid) in order that my dog has adequate down time each day.  I prefer the company of my dog when it comes to my health, but she deserves time off just like anyone else. Just because you might see a service dog handler without their dog doesn’t mean that it is a comfort animal or a pet. Sometimes we choose to use an assistant in order to protect our dogs health or safety!  🙂

[Daniel A]

7 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

The Princess policy has been clearly stated in this thread. Emotional support animals are not permitted. So why are you so certain that the people traveling with dogs did not have the proper paperwork? Do you really think that Princess is looking the other way and not enforcing its own policy?  

It's not like how Princess enforces their policies on early access to cabins or coffee cards not being honored any longer.  Princess looks the other way all the time.  They are so intent on not upsetting anybody that they end up inadvertently treating many more cruisers differently.  This may be just another example of Princess inconsistently following their own written policies and procedures.

[PrincessLuver]

11 hours ago, richstowe said:

Looking forward to your report .

I have seen 3 or 4 comfort dogs on board and another with a vest that was clearly not a trained service animal . I'm positive this is perhaps half of the pets that were actually on my cruises . So  your " one in a hundred thousand guests, if that " is severely under estimating the problem . Rover's owners are self-indulgent narcissists who may actually feel they need to bring their special soul-mate . They are still wrong to do so 🙄

 

Agree with your observation too....and if was not such a big problem airlines, restaurants, hotels and others would not be working to have the law's loop holes closed so that this farce and sham can be more controlled.....again....most people know what is really going on with these fake animals and no matter how others try to hide behind the laws it is happening!!!

[Reader0108598]

1 hour ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Agree with your observation too....and if was not such a big problem airlines, restaurants, hotels and others would not be working to have the law's loop holes closed so that this farce and sham can be more controlled.....again....most people know what is really going on with these fake animals and no matter how others try to hide behind the laws it is happening!!!

I just feel bad for people with true service dogs who go through extensive training these others are giving them a bad name! 😞I did see a true service dog on a ship! It was under the table while the owner ate ,It was beautiful so well behaved!

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Reader0108598

[nattie]

10 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

The Princess policy has been clearly stated in this thread. Emotional support animals are not permitted. So why are you so certain that the people traveling with dogs did not have the proper paperwork? Do you really think that Princess is looking the other way and not enforcing its own policy?  Kind of a big risk to fly to a departure port with your non-qualifying pet  hoping that you could sneak the dog on board. The risk of being wrong is monumental. The dog would be denied boarding and so would the owner. No refund. Who would roll those dice? We’re not talking about having a pint of rum confiscated. The more likely scenario is that the dogs you are seeing are providing a service for a disability that you cannot see.  People showing up with dogs who are not qualified to board and putting their vacation worth thousands of dollars at risk? Doesn’t add up. 

I am not sure how many times people have to say this NOT EVERYONE FLIES. Most "comfort" dogs are spotted on Caribbean itineraries, where most of them are probably going from retirement community directly to the cruiseship. 

And I am sure the dogs in question have proper paperwork, which is not hard to obtain online. 

You keep coming back with the same argument. Yes we all agree there are legitimate support animals that should be allowed everywhere their owner goes, NO the "pocket doggie" in the buffet line/pooping by the pool/barking at everything that moves are NOT legitimate support animals in a sense that they are not properly trained to be in the crowds.

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, Reader0108598 said:

I just feel bad for people with true service dogs who go through extensive training these others are giving them a bad name! 😞I did see a true service dog on a ship! It was under the table while the owner ate ,It was beautiful so well behaved!

 

 

That is my frustration too that the fake animals are making it more difficult for those that are truly trained and in need.  People seem very suspect now especially when the dog is being coddled by the owner and shown off.  

 

We were on a Princess TA and there were 8 seeing eye dogs in use on that ship and they were the most amazing, well behaved and brilliant animals I have ever seen.  They truly seem to make the cruise an enjoyable experience for their handlers and were not a nuisance at anytime or in anyway that I was aware of on the ship.

[Reader0108598]

3 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

That is my frustration too that the fake animals are making it more difficult for those that are truly trained and in need.  People seem very suspect now especially when the dog is being coddled by the owner and shown off.  

 

We were on a Princess TA and there were 8 seeing eye dogs in use on that ship and they were the most amazing, well behaved and brilliant animals I have ever seen.  They truly seem to make the cruise an enjoyable experience for their handlers and were not a nuisance at anytime or in anyway that I was aware of on the ship.

Totally agree i have never thought a well trained service dog was anything but a wonderful animal I am in awe of them! Always a pleasure to see them!

[K.T.B.]

20 hours ago, Ombud said:

Service animals are not pets so my opinion stands. When in doubt, tactfully quietly report and let them figure it out. Just bc someone doesn't look disabled doesn't mean they aren't. 

 

Correction:  Service animals are not just pets!  They're "working animals", but they're also pets in terms of companionship.  But if you see anyone with a service animal, ask first before petting them.    

[meatloafsfan]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:22 PM, CineGraphic said:

 

I think it's ridiculous to push a dog in a baby stroller, but this may be why some do so when bringing their pups into the dining room, so as to not soil the floor. Nobody needs to see that while eating.

 

I was on a cruise where the owner of a service animal had the dog in a cart-thing (I don't want to say carriage - it was a small 4 wheel cart with a soft plastic top). The cart had a sign on it that said "service animal". We (myself and my mother in her wheelchair) were waiting patiently for an open elevator on embarkation day when they rolled up to the elevator as well and we struck up a conversation. The service dog owner said that they use the cart on embarkation and debarkation and any really crowded place. They had issues in the past with the dog being stepped on (to the point where the dog was injured) or people trying to get between them and the dog where they couldn't actually continue to hold onto the led without injury to themselves.

 

Now, whenever I see a dog in a carriage, I tend to think it's for the dog's protection.

[BrennerM]

19 hours ago, MixerDave said:

I just wonder when people say their service dog "can detect low blood sugar, etc" what they do on an excursion.  Can "Fluffy" detect from a cruise ship balcony while there owner is off the ship, or is this all BS?

 

 

If it is a true, proper service animal they will have it with them 24/7 because that is the whole purpose of the animal.  If they go on an excursion they would definitely want it with them as well.   If on the other hand they lied to Princess when boarding and it is not really a proper service animal, that's a whole other situation.

 

[meatloafsfan]

10 hours ago, Mavis and Me said:

Not at all. My dog works hard all day long, and once I remove her gear and put her ‘to bed’ at night, she is off duty. If I must go out again, I will try to take a service ‘human’ (hubby or kid) in order that my dog has adequate down time each day.  I prefer the company of my dog when it comes to my health, but she deserves time off just like anyone else. Just because you might see a service dog handler without their dog doesn’t mean that it is a comfort animal or a pet. Sometimes we choose to use an assistant in order to protect our dogs health or safety!  🙂

 

21 minutes ago, BrennerM said:

 

If it is a true, proper service animal they will have it with them 24/7 because that is the whole purpose of the animal.  If they go on an excursion they would definitely want it with them as well.   If on the other hand they lied to Princess when boarding and it is not really a proper service animal, that's a whole other situation.

 

 

No, "proper service animals" don't work 24/7.

 

Above is a quote from a person who is assisted by a service dog - no one - not humans, not animals - works 24/7.

[rugerdog]

10 hours ago, Mavis and Me said:

Not at all. My dog works hard all day long, and once I remove her gear and put her ‘to bed’ at night, she is off duty.

 

What breed of dog is she?  If that is her in your avatar, she is truly beautiful!  

 

I, too, live in the PNW 😃

[JimmyVWine]

5 hours ago, nattie said:

You keep coming back with the same argument.

Because it is unassailable.  No one is going to risk a $3,000 cruise on the chance that they get to the port only to be told that they aren't going to be allowed to board.  The risk/reward is far, far too great.  This isn't an "Oops.  Didn't work this time.  I hope I have better luck next time" situation.   People showing up with dogs either have the proper paperwork that will allow the dog to board, or have very convincing fakes which will allow the dog to board.  Either way, there is nothing that Princess can do about it.  The law does not allow them to do the type of cross-examination that would deny boarding to the dogs that you find to be so offensive and disruptive.  So get over it.