Get rid of the buffets already!...

[AF-1]

3 minutes ago, cruizergal70 said:

Huh? When I vacation, I like to get away from people as much as possible. Other passengers and crew alike. It has nothing to do with looking down on anyone.

I get it;  stress free sometimes means quiet and isolation

Edited May 29, 2020 by AF-1

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, cruizergal70 said:

Huh? When I vacation, I like to get away from people as much as possible. Other passengers and crew alike. It has nothing to do with looking down on anyone.

In that case,  why go on a cruise at all? Do what we do, and book a villa in the countryside in Spain,  Madeira, Portugal etc, and really get away from everyone. 

[clo]

21 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

Clo please read my post 330;  it is exactly what I said.  I guess you passed that post

Please know that "you folks" wasn't all the "folks.

 

[getting older slowly]

A lot of people like them and use them.... so there has to be something to fill the gap

 

The only time one uses the self serve / or served food option... is port day lunches.... which we take back to our cabin and sit on the balcony with a glass of wine..... or for that   "something sweet"' at the end of the evening.

 

Cheers Don

[Hlitner]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:29 AM, AF-1 said:

I see a future where the buffet lines on cruise ships will look like a cafeteria;  you walk up to the serving line and the employees serve you the food;  there will be marks on the floor that are six feet apart; and when you walk thru the line and get your food; you will then head for a table.  The tables will be cleaned by extra staff who make sure everything is sanitized.  This should satisfy everybody.

As has been posted, we think that HAL has already adopted a buffet model that will now sweep the industry.  It is not perfect, but does a lot to minimize risk in the serving lines.   Their system is based on the idea that passengers should not share serving utensils.  They achieve this by having crew do the serving (where necessary) and pre-plating or packaging other items.  But we do not know any solution to the social distancing issue in a Lido.  I do suspect that ships will adopt a new rule that prohibits folks from sitting in the Lido unless they are actually eating.  On many cruises we have seen plenty of folks who simply hang out in the Lido, do their knitting, reading, etc.  This can be strongly discouraged to try and free-up more tables.

 

Hank

[RocketMan275]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:29 AM, AF-1 said:

 there will be marks on the floor that are six feet apart; and when you walk thru the line and get your food; you will then head for a table.  

Very doubtful, the lines would extend from the buffet, past the pool, all the way to the bow.

[ed01106]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Very doubtful, the lines would extend from the buffet, past the pool, all the way to the bow.

Cruises are likely going to be required to sail at 40 or 50% capacity.  That will greatly shorten queues.  

[Roz]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 8:13 AM, Hlitner said:

I do suspect that ships will adopt a new rule that prohibits folks from sitting in the Lido unless they are actually eating.  On many cruises we have seen plenty of folks who simply hang out in the Lido, do their knitting, reading, etc.  This can be strongly discouraged to try and free-up more tables.

 

I ran into this on my last HAL cruise where there were a lot of tour and extended family groups.  When I needed to eat in the Lido, I had to sit way out by the pool at the far end near the spa.  I was literally and figuratively pushed out, and it was very uncomfortable.  Groups would take over sections of the Lido and park themselves there all day.  The Lido only works when there's a turnover of tables.

[navybankerteacher]

19 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Cruises are likely going to be required to sail at 40 or 50% capacity.  That will greatly shorten queues.  

...and double (or triple) cruise fares - or else drive the lines into insolvency.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

...and double (or triple) cruise fares - or else drive the lines into insolvency.

Somehow this morning these things seem more trivial than usual.

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

I ran into this on my last HAL cruise where there were a lot of tour and extended family groups.  When I needed to eat in the Lido, I had to sit way out by the pool at the far end near the spa.  I was literally and figuratively pushed out, and it was very uncomfortable.  Groups would take over sections of the Lido and park themselves there all day.  The Lido only works when there's a turnover of tables.

Yeah this is a huge problem on HAL, especially their smaller vessels.  When on longer HAL cruises the passengers tend to be much older (mostly seniors) and many of these folks have no desire to sit out on deck.  They hang in the Lido from breakfast until after lunch and you will see the knitting groups, card players, etc.  HAL has tolerated this misuse of the Lido for many years and seems reluctant to push folks out to give tables to those who actually want to eat.    DW and I once had a lady come up to us (while we were eating a late breakfast in the Lido) and tell us we had to move because the table we were using was for her knitting group.  We politely told that lady that we would only move after we finished our breakfast and she was so unhappy she went and complained to a supervisor (who brushed her off).    This will likely change in the post pandemic world.  What is funny about HAL is that they have the most limited Lido food hours of just about any mass market line.  You would think that once the food lines close the folks would leave their tables but this is not to be.  These folks will stand their ground even as the staff works around them to clean tables and the floor.  They simply wait until the Lido reopens for lunch.

 

I do not know the solution since telling folks they need to vacate "their table" in the Lido will cause some to be quite annoyed.  The crew on most cruise ships are trained to give deference to the passengers and avoid confrontation.  But I can see a future when the crew will simply tell folks they must move because the table/chairs must be disinfected!

 

Hank

[ed01106]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

...and double (or triple) cruise fares - or else drive the lines into insolvency.

Not really.  If you eliminate the inside cabins but have 100% occupancy on suites an overall occupancy rate of 50% is stil about 85% revenue or more.  Sailings won't be as profitable but they will be more profitable than not sailing or they won't sail

[Roz]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

DW and I once had a lady come up to us (while we were eating a late breakfast in the Lido) and tell us we had to move because the table we were using was for her knitting group.  We politely told that lady that we would only move after we finished our breakfast and she was so unhappy she went and complained to a supervisor (who brushed her off).    

 

Yes, this exactly.  They didn't complain to a supervisor, but I felt like I needed to get out of there ASAP.  I was traveling solo, and I think they somehow felt like they had more of a right to push me around.  

 

I was on a Carnival Panama Canal cruise earlier this year, and there were a couple of tables occupied by the same families all day, every day.  But not nearly as bad as on HAL.

[Roz]

2 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Not really.  If you eliminate the inside cabins but have 100% occupancy on suites an overall occupancy rate of 50% is stil about 85% revenue or more.  Sailings won't be as profitable but they will be more profitable than not sailing or they won't sail

 

Yes, eliminate the inside cabins and the passengers who occupy them.  We're expendable.

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

...

But I can see a future when the crew will simply tell folks they must move because the table/chairs must be disinfected!

 

Hank

They could consider, after food service ended, washing down the entire area with high pressure fire hoses —- simultaneously cleaning while encouraging turnover.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Not really.  If you eliminate the inside cabins but have 100% occupancy on suites an overall occupancy rate of 50% is stil about 85% revenue or more.  Sailings won't be as profitable but they will be more profitable than not sailing or they won't sail

Interesting thought!  I am not sure if the economics will work for mass market lines who depend on "maximizing onboard revenue" as a major contributor to profits.  While the line might be able to operate at 50% this would also mean a huge decline in onboard revenue which might not be financially feasible.   Consider that even at a lower occupancy the crew size cannot be substantially reduced, fuel costs are the same, and debt service (some of these new ships cost over $1 billion) must be spread over fewer passengers.  The advantage of economies of scale is lost which would be a recipe for financial disaster.

 

Hank

[ed01106]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting thought!  I am not sure if the economics will work for mass market lines who depend on "maximizing onboard revenue" as a major contributor to profits.  While the line might be able to operate at 50% this would also mean a huge decline in onboard revenue which might not be financially feasible.   Consider that even at a lower occupancy the crew size cannot be substantially reduced, fuel costs are the same, and debt service (some of these new ships cost over $1 billion) must be spread over fewer passengers.  The advantage of economies of scale is lost which would be a recipe for financial disaster.

 

Hank

Obviously this would have negative impact on profits.  But sailing at 50% for a year is less likely to lead to insolvency than not sailing at all for a year.  Also i am pretty sure suite passengers spend more on board pp than inside cabin passengers so once again you are looking at much less than 50% loss of revenue.  Disney ceo said his parks will be able to cover operating expenses at 50% or he wouldn't be opening them.  Restaurants which operate at much thinner margins than cruise lines are reopening at 50% rather than stay close.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

Cruises are likely going to be required to sail at 40 or 50% capacity.  That will greatly shorten queues.  

That's a recipe for bankruptcy.  No way a cruise line can make a profit at 50% capacity.  

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

Not really.  If you eliminate the inside cabins but have 100% occupancy on suites an overall occupancy rate of 50% is stil about 85% revenue or more.  Sailings won't be as profitable but they will be more profitable than not sailing or they won't sail

That's fantasy land.  I saw a TV show on a NCL cruise where the ship was at capacity but didn't break even until the last night.  

[RocketMan275]

54 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Obviously this would have negative impact on profits.  But sailing at 50% for a year is less likely to lead to insolvency than not sailing at all for a year.  

That's not necessarily true.  If you're losing more money sailing at 50% than you are if you park the ships, then you will go bankrupt even faster.

[AF-1]

The cruise lines are working very hard to figure out how to keep the buffet and still meet all the necessary CDC, and WHO requirements.  It may take a few months; and when the ships do start sailing againg; the buffet area will look very different.  Keep the glass half full and wishful thinking.  All is good

[AF-1]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Very doubtful, the lines would extend from the buffet, past the pool, all the way to the bow.

there will be some sort of markings on the floor;  how far?  Anybodys guess.  Have a nice day

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's not necessarily true.  If you're losing more money sailing at 50% than you are if you park the ships, then you will go bankrupt even faster.

 

Of course, they could couple that with a hefty price increase.

[ontheweb]

32 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Of course, they could couple that with a hefty price increase.

But there is always that pesky law of supply and demand. Make the price too high and demand for the product at that price goes down.

[cruisemom42]

20 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But there is always that pesky law of supply and demand. Make the price too high and demand for the product at that price goes down.

 

I'm guessing at least half of the rabid cruisers on these boards who can't wait to go back will be willing to pony up...