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Celebrity Eclipse exposed passengers to Covid19


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27 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Pushka, you can’t treat everyone with a respiratory symptom as having COVID 19!   Only about 8% of the people who were exposed and had symptoms have tested as positive.

Anyone who has symptoms should stay home until they either get over them or have trouble breathing!   That is the current guidance in the U.S.    In addition, anyone who has been out of the country or in any of the U.S. hotspots is expected to self quarantine for 14 days.    To blame a cruise line because one passenger on board had what they thought was another problem is unrealistic.

 

True, you can't TREAT everyone with respiratory symptoms as having COVID 19, but in this situation any reasonably educated and responsible person should have recognized the very real possibility and not told passengers and authorities that there was NO illness onboard.   And, yes, those who have been out of the country are supposed to 'self quarantine',  but in this case that quarantine would begin AFTER they arrived home.   By that time, if they were infected (and we now know some were), they would have already infected others.   I don't believe the cruise line thought the one passenger's illness was "another problem", I believe they chose to take a huge risk and lost the gamble.    

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56 minutes ago, Kartgv said:

 

True, you can't TREAT everyone with respiratory symptoms as having COVID 19, but in this situation any reasonably educated and responsible person should have recognized the very real possibility and not told passengers and authorities that there was NO illness onboard.   And, yes, those who have been out of the country are supposed to 'self quarantine',  but in this case that quarantine would begin AFTER they arrived home.   By that time, if they were infected (and we now know some were), they would have already infected others.   I don't believe the cruise line thought the one passenger's illness was "another problem", I believe they chose to take a huge risk and lost the gamble.    

 

I've been following this a little bit and I have been very vocal about fair weather ports who are happy to collect the port fees and host passengers pre and post cruise, sell them food, rent them cars, etc. etc. etc. Then when there is a problem and people are in danger, nobody wants them. It seems to me that Captain Leo did everything he could to get his passengers home safe. Remember the Diamond Princess stuck alongside sitting while more and more people were infected. Let's not forget the Zaandam and that ordeal. As Eclipse was doing their very best to make sure everyone was comfortable while trying to get them home safe, others on other ships were locked in their cabins and still got sick. I have only been able to find one 2 paragraph story from a local San Diego news source alleging that passengers from Eclipse have spread the virus from Finland to Florida without offering any proof.

So if I was a passenger on Eclipse for this voyage I would thank Captain Leo for getting me home safe. Rest assured Captain Leo knew it may end his career, but he did the right thing to get his ship, crew and passengers home safe from the sea.

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There is a Facebook group Made up of Captain Leo’s passengers that is compiling numbers from those who joined the group.  It has 40 self reported positive and 21 with tats pending.  The reporter was”allowed” to join the group as she supposedly had friends on the cruise.

 

i truly believe that no one in the medical staff or the Captain thought they were dealing with anything other than the normal illnesses at the end of any cruise.  If they thought they had COVID-19 on board, do you really believe Captain Leo would have been there to say goodbye to us or that the medical staff would have forgone PPE?

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Yes, I do.  

 

Precedent set by Ruby Princess, unloading ill passengers in Australia and Costa leaving Covid-19 in Miami.  Good job Orlando.

 

Dodge the bullet....toss passengers to the wind....save money and bad publicity.

 

Good for the United Airlines flight crew....don't get yourself and your family sick due to 135 just off the ship with no testing.

 

Who in their right mind sent them from FLL to SFO?  Protect all of South Florida....several days of meetings with all of the top people.....and TV coverage the Kardashians would envy... about safety.  BS.  

 

This is tantamount to the old days when I've heard of homeless being sent on Greyhound buses from LA to Phoenix with a one-way ticket.

 

Maybe they were able to be tested today, before this evenings flights from SFO to SYD.  I hope so.

Those flights leave later tonight.

 

 

David

 

 

Edited by DAllenTCY
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3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Pushka, you can’t treat everyone with a respiratory symptom as having COVID 19!   Only about 8% of the people who were exposed and had symptoms have tested as positive.

Anyone who has symptoms should stay home until they either get over them or have trouble breathing!   That is the current guidance in the U.S.    In addition, anyone who has been out of the country or in any of the U.S. hotspots is expected to self quarantine for 14 days.    To blame a cruise line because one passenger on board had what they thought was another problem is unrealistic.


At this time, that is exactly what should happen. In Australia, if you've got respiratory symptoms, And have been on a cruise, or had contact with a known positive Covid or been overseas then you would be tested and isolated until the results came in. 

By 'treat' I mean 'assume'. Not everyone will require medical treatment but they must be isolated. 


Another 3 deaths from Ruby today. That makes 10. It disembarked 15 days ago. Please let that end. That was a major failure on someone's part, and an investigation to determine why. It is regarded as NSW largest Public Health Failure. 


The fact that passengers (or crew?) can bring this virus onboard, and not be detected means that cruiselines should have closed down weeks ago. They procedures could never guarantee a safe ship once it spread worldwide. 

Edited by Pushka
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5 hours ago, Va man said:

There is a Facebook group Made up of Captain Leo’s passengers that is compiling numbers from those who joined the group.  It has 40 self reported positive and 21 with tats pending.  The reporter was”allowed” to join the group as she supposedly had friends on the cruise.

 

i truly believe that no one in the medical staff or the Captain thought they were dealing with anything other than the normal illnesses at the end of any cruise.  If they thought they had COVID-19 on board, do you really believe Captain Leo would have been there to say goodbye to us or that the medical staff would have forgone PPE?

 

How could they not suspect that the illness might be Covid 19? Surly they were aware of the world wide pandemic with the same symptoms. Who knows how many people those from the ship who are now testing positive have infected. All the early cases in my city were due to returning cruise ship passengers( not necessarily Celebrity). Then it spread to close contacts of those passengers and now we have community spread. 

 

Some posters think that the captain did the right thing because he enabled passengers to return home without delay. How many of those passengers are now positive and how many people have they infected? Very short sighted and inconsiderate on the captain’s part. 

 

As one who has enjoyed many cruises on Celebrity ships, I am very disappointed with Celebrity and those responsible for this extremely poor decision.

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There is a lot to decipher here on Celebrity's actions, inaction's and intent.  And it will all eventually come out.  But I also ask about the other half of the equation - the on-shore authorities.  Clearly on-shore medical authorities and the state of CA and city of San Diego approved the Eclipse to dock and they had to assume there was some potential risk in this situation.  Yes they were likely told by Celebrity that they had no positive COVID-19 cases to it's knowledge but they also knew that the ship could not test for it.   On shore authorities were notified of a serious illness on board as an ambulance was waiting for the passenger.  And they had suspicions and rightly tested her right away for COVID-19.  Ten hours later a confirmed positive.  I am curious as to why the on-shore San Diego or State of CA authorities let passengers disembark prior to having this test result?  Clearly another 10 hr wait after this long ordeal would have been prudent by them.  I do understand that the passengers on board would have been very upset with this additional delay but that is our lives these days. Once the positive test came back they should then have tested all passengers and crew before releasing them into the general population.

Edited by TeeRick
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I am not a bid social media fan and so this is out of norm for me.

I was on the cruise and both my wife and I have come down with symptoms (coughing, sore throat, chest congestion) but so far no fever.  Unfortunately, my son is now also at risk.  In my area, the local health authorities do not recommend testing unless it becomes critical, so I may never know what it is.

It may be COVID, a cold, a flu, or something else.  It is normal to have flus and colds on cruise ships given that many people do not follow, even in a normal situation, good cleansing etiquette - I could not count the number of men going to the washroom and then not washing their hands, people coughing directly in their hands (despite the Captain's announcements) and then handling the tongs in the Oceanview, people coughing directly onto others in elevators, etc. 

If the ship had someone onboard with suspected bronchitis and then pneumonia, then the ship had someone onboard showing symptoms.  The symptoms are similar. They possibly concluded that it was not COVID, but they cannot say that there was no symptoms.

One morning my wife noticed that in his morning address the Captain did not say, as was normal, that this is a healthy ship. He stopped saying it. I believe that this was somewhere around day 8, 9,10 before our arrival in SD.  He may not have known what the exact diagnosis was, but I believe he knew there was someone very sick onboard.  I also noticed, and maybe it was only coincidence, that the Captain and Senior Officers were now much more visible.

I do believe that they had enough information as of that day, as someone earlier mentioned, to implement some form of social isolation, if not an outright cabin quarantine.

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Hi all,

Much reading from this post, thank you all for your input, and I really wish everyone who came off the Solstice a safe and healthy passage through the pandemic.
Reason why I wanted to write this memo is multifaceted.

1. I was on the Solstice in Nov 2019 on SYD-OAK trip, so I felt it is close to my heart since I love NZ
2. I am a retired but yet functional pharma PhD scientist who is tracking down everything related to COVID-19 religiously

3. I tracked down a lot of stories about cruise ships these days as I am an avid cruiser myself, I cruised over 25 times on multiple lines but Celebrity is one of the two of my favorites

4. I am an American but I live in Singapore, which is prized for its relentless pursuit to keep its state COVID-19 free.

 

To start.
Whoever says that ONLY the cruisers (or whatever people are coming to your neighborhood, either by air or by cruise etc.) who have SYMPTOMS are prone to have the COVID-19, I urge you to read a lot of info online which tells you plainly that 1 out of 3 or 4 (at best) tested positive is showing the symptoms like coughing/runny nose etc. did transfer the virus...

IT IS TRANSFERRED LARGELY ASYMPTOMATIC. Taking the temperature and filling in the questionnaire does diddly squat.

Again, I encourage you to read materials online that demonstrate: in Wuhan/China, the earliest cases that were discovered in China (of COVID-19) are dated back as early as November 17th 2019 (!!!) In Italy, the earliest cases are dated back to pre-Christmas time. Find a stry about the Seattle Flu Study, the clinical trial that discovered that in Washington state the earliest cases could backtracked to mid January (!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html

Next.

Remember that several ships early on were denied docking just by the sheer premise that someone onboard is having COVID-19 - again, do not want to entertain you with this, check Google. EVERY ship before docking must provide list of the passengers/crew who are sick, this is a maritime law for centuries, so did captain Leo or whatever this dude's name lie in his manifest, he has to be sued, together with Celebrity. No way he did not know about that, based on the posts here.

Next.

If any of you believes that it is cool that passengers of Solstice got off the ship scoot free, this is the biggest mistake of your lives.

No one gets free of this virus.

Look around, look at your neighborhood, be it New York (my heart goes for all the sick folks and the med-personnel there...), Massachusetts or Illinois... by the way, just look at the top 5-7 top international airports in the US and you can see where this c**p came from...
What I am saying is that regardless of how you feel, lucky or not that you've got off the ship scoot free, THIS IS NOT A JOKE, and even if you were lucky, there are (as of 3 days back) about 18 cruise ship or so around the world who have about 12,000+ crew onboard...

They are stuck, and nobody - nobody!!! - will bail them out, not their governments, not - for sure - their employers, greedy SOBs. They served us for years, they earned pennies, worked long hours and had pigeonhole quarters that are now their death trap with coronavirus.

Think about that.

How many crew members on Princess have got infected, and how many of them infected us???

This virus is easily transferred via airflows, either no-stop ship air conditioning or via people just breathing next to you - again, check Google.

Listen, people, if all of us do not stand up against this virus, we all will get what we deserved.

Wear masks, stay at your home, be patient, WAIT. 

Look at positive examples - Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, now Italy (yes, Italy, because the nation was demolished down to 9/11 grounds and yet the heroic efforts of the nation made a turn around the corner, after horrible deaths... )

This is what we will get in my beloved country if we do not take this seriously.

It is here.

Stay safe.

Edited by marylander2
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1 hour ago, RDB16 said:

I was on the cruise and both my wife and I have come down with symptoms (coughing, sore throat, chest congestion) but so far no fever.  Unfortunately, my son is now also at risk.  In my area, the local health authorities do not recommend testing unless it becomes critical, so I may never know what it is.

Given the fact that you were on this cruise and are displaying these symptoms, you meet the assessment centre's criteria for testing. I strongly recommend that you head over to the Brewer Park Arena.

 

  • You have a new or worsening cough and/or fever, and
  • In the past 14 days have either travelled outside of Canada or been in contact with someone who has been diagnosed with COVID-19.
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I'd like to inject a dose of realism to the points made above.   I understand how it's supposed to work at sea, but I believe Celebrity / RC corporate was making most decisions, not Captain Leo.  Why? Because the decisions appeared to be financially-based, not based on health, safety, and well being.

 - Celebrity pushed the cheapest solution for 3 days, attempting to "compel" Chile to let the boat disembark in San Antonio harbor, Chile.  Celebrity knew their fallback plan was to hold San Diego to the already-scheduled March 30th disembark for the subsequent cruise.  So it didn't hurt the schedule to try for a few days to convince Chile to take all the passengers on the 15th-17th.

 - Celebrity would have liked to dump 200+ continuing cruisers in San Antonio as part of emptying the ship.  They were to have given those poor souls $300 each to find their way home from an unplanned disembarkation point.

- With Chile digging in their heels, Celebrity reluctantly turned to a more costly plan B, which was to preserve customer relations and goodwill, and keep the ship entertained and in good spirits on the way to San Diego.

 - With conditions deteriorating around the world, Celebrity realized that a "sick ship" would provide reason for San Diego to turn them away.  Celebrity would then incur additional costs of treating, feeding, and caring for passengers.

 - With passengers freely communicating with the outside world, playing it safe and conservative by issuing a quarantine order for one or more sick passengers would quickly play in the court of public opinion and could put the San Diego disembarkation in jeopardy.

I believe Captain Leo was told by Celebrity / RC Corporate to do whatever it takes to insure the San Diego disembarkation happened as planned.

I hope Celebrity takes care of him for being the fall guy / company man, however you want to look at it.

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16 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

I've been following this a little bit and I have been very vocal about fair weather ports who are happy to collect the port fees and host passengers pre and post cruise, sell them food, rent them cars, etc. etc. etc. Then when there is a problem and people are in danger, nobody wants them. It seems to me that Captain Leo did everything he could to get his passengers home safe. Remember the Diamond Princess stuck alongside sitting while more and more people were infected. Let's not forget the Zaandam and that ordeal. As Eclipse was doing their very best to make sure everyone was comfortable while trying to get them home safe, others on other ships were locked in their cabins and still got sick. I have only been able to find one 2 paragraph story from a local San Diego news source alleging that passengers from Eclipse have spread the virus from Finland to Florida without offering any proof.

So if I was a passenger on Eclipse for this voyage I would thank Captain Leo for getting me home safe. Rest assured Captain Leo knew it may end his career, but he did the right thing to get his ship, crew and passengers home safe from the sea.

I know for a fact 4 of our acquaintances who were on the Eclipse who have tested positive and one of them critical in the hospital. They got tested at the advice of Celebrity upon their arrival in Miami. Personally I think it’s extremely sad. Do not want to start any arguments I respect everyone’s opinion. In addition we were on the Infinity in January and March and became very fond of several crew members. Our hearts are broken to see that a crew member has died and the rest are quarantined on the ship. Thinking and praying for them constantly.

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To In Steerage

 

Capitan Leo said, if necessary, Celebrity  would charter planes in Chile to get us home.  I don’t think money had any part in the decisions.  If you went to any of the shows or talked to any of the officers, you would have found out that one level of government gave us permission to disembark but a local level blocked it.  We were essentially being used as a tool by labor unions and political groups to push their agendas 

image.jpeg

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Quoting from another thread:

 

"Anyone who didn't foresee that ships would be coming back to home ports with passengers on board was being very optimistic/unrealistic at best or callous at worst. Certainly the Grand Princess issue should have put them on notice."

 

This is an interesting point.  I know there were passengers that were in Chile, ready and willing to embark on the Eclipse on March 15, and were advised of the cancellation that very morning, as well as other passengers in different ports on different cruise lines.  

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I, too, was on this cruise, and I as well was extraordinarily pissed when I got the email from Celebrity informing us that we might have been exposed to the virus.  But then as I considered the issues, I have come to a different conclusion.

The captain could have informed us all that there was illness on board, confined us to our cabins, and proceeded to seek a port where we could land. Of course, he had the example of the Zaandam to show that wasn’t very effective.

On the other hand, he could keep silent, get his passengers to port and home, while sacrificing his career and possibly opening up Celebrity to massive lawsuits. 

I believe that the captain chose the second option because he considered his first obligations were to his passengers. It was a lose/lose situation, but I feel he made the best decision he could. I for one am glad to be home.

Edited by Artquest
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6 minutes ago, Artquest said:

 

I believe that the captain chose the second option because he considered his first obligations were to his passengers. It was a lose/lose situation, but I feel he made the best decision he could. I for one am glad to be home.

Whatever decision was made, highly doubt it was made by the Captain.  Those type of decisions always come from Miami.  

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On 4/2/2020 at 11:07 AM, markpc17 said:

However, my last point.  I think Captain Leo and officers got way into the hero worship that was going on.  I was never comfortable with it.  Did Celebrity treat us great?  Absolutely.  But the hero worship that was going on was uncomfortable.  Especially in light of the new facts - there were people showing exact, matching symptoms.  We all were up on the news, them included, those were obvious potential cases.  I would have respected it far more if they had implemented social distancing, spacing at dinners, spacing in shows.  Maybe there wasn't enough to quarantine to rooms - that would have been awful - but to let us all pack together everywhere, (how many times did we all have to line up in a confined space with people breathing on your neck?)  is where this falls apart for me.  Some precautions should have been taken at the minimum.  I think they got into prancing around deck being honored as heroes.  That's just my take.

I admit I was one who looked at them as heroes...I wanted to be home.  I listened to all the coughs, including the ones in our Happy Hour group,, but trusted “there was no illness onboard”.  I looked at all the officers circulating among the passengers as a way of exuding confidence, so that even when listening to those coughs, I figured we were ok.  I guess this was very naive now, but talk about company loyalty!  Captain Leo was even there to say goodbye to each of us...and I don’t think that was from 6’ away either.  I don’t know...we don’t like the lack of transparency, but are wondering whether it was for our own good??  That makes it totally confusing as to whether hey did the right thing!

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1 hour ago, barbette165 said:

Are the South American passengers who didn't have US visas still on board waiting to be taken down to Mexico so that they can disembark?

As far as I know, the ship is still docked in San Diego.  I heard that some crew are quarantined and they have all been given passenger cabins to stay in.  I also heard that they might start using cruise ships to return employees to their countries.

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5 minutes ago, Artquest said:

I, too, was on this cruise, and I as well was extraordinarily pissed when I got the email from Celebrity informing us that we might have been exposed to the virus.  But then as I considered the issues, I have come to a different conclusion.

The captain could have informed us all that there was illness on board, confined us to our cabins, and proceeded to seek a port where we could land. Of course, he had the example of the Zaandam to show that wasn’t very effective.

On the other hand, he could keep silent, get his passengers to port and home, while sacrificing his career and possibly opening up Celebrity to massive lawsuits. 

I believe that the captain chose the second option because he considered his first obligations were to his passengers. It was a lose/lose situation, but I feel he made the best decision he could. I for one am glad to be home.

 

Wile I understand your point, it is sad that those NOT on the ship were apparently not considered. We will never know how many unsuspecting people who had nothing to do with this cruise are now sick or even dead because of the captain’s decision. Before someone points out that not all Covid spread is due to cruise ship passengers, yes I’m well aware of that. However that does not change the fact that in this case “spread” could have been mitigated IF the captain and others in charge were aware that there could be passengers with the potential of not only getting sick but of spreading it should they leave the ship asymptomatic.

 

 

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2 hours ago, In_Steerage said:

 

 - Celebrity pushed the cheapest solution for 3 days, attempting to "compel" Chile to let the boat disembark in San Antonio harbor, Chile. 

 

Were you told Celebrity was pushing for a cheap solution?  Personally, I think Celebrity was thinking of the passengers who were to disembark in San Antonio and the poor unfortunate jetlagged souls who had arrived in Santiago hoping to board on the 15th.  It must have been devastating for them to learn they just had to turn around and go home.

There was certainly nothing cheap about the way they treated us for the next 15 days.  They didn't have to give us free unlimited Internet, free booze from morning to night or free laundry while we were sailing on a free cruise,  getting our money back and tier points also.

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13 hours ago, purduemom1 said:

 

 All the early cases in my city were due to returning cruise ship passengers( not necessarily Celebrity). Then it spread to close contacts of those passengers and now we have community spread. 

 

Some posters think that the captain did the right thing because he enabled passengers to return home without delay. How many of those passengers are now positive and how many people have they infected? Very short sighted and inconsiderate on the captain’s part. 

 

As one who has enjoyed many cruises on Celebrity ships, I am very disappointed with Celebrity and those responsible for this extremely poor decision.

 

As for your first statement, no-one from your town traveled anywhere where they may have come in contact with the virus except cruise ship passengers? No-one?

 

For your second statement, those returning passengers who may or may not have been exposed on the ship should have as a matter of course been careful to socially distance and be responsible for themselves and others. Are they little children?

 

And by your third statement I take it you would be ecstatic to be sitting aboard the ship today, locked down in your cabin. Waiting while everyone aboard is tested with the non-existent test kits and the infection slowly spread throughput the ship.

Edited by Blackduck59
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2 hours ago, Va man said:

Capitan Leo said, if necessary, Celebrity  would charter planes in Chile to get us home.  I don’t think money had any part in the decisions.  If you went to any of the shows or talked to any of the officers, you would have found out that one level of government gave us permission to disembark but a local level blocked it.  We were essentially being used as a tool by labor unions and political groups to push their agendas 

Va man:

Addressing specifically the night of March 14 and the continuing cruisers who counted on disembarking at San Diego March 30 at the end of a back-to-back...

The 200+ continuing cruisers were treated very poorly.

- An email went out from Celebrity Corporate arond 3 pm on March 14 stating the March 15 cruise was cancelled and continuing cruisers should pack their bags to disembark the next morning.  If you weren't paying for internet at that point, you were in the dark until...

- around 5 pm when an announcement was made on board to the same extent.

- Then, for over four hours a line snaked around on deck 3 near Customer Relations. Continuing cruisers waited in that line, being told they would be given assistance home by a Celebrity Rep.  Rumors circulated in line that Celebrity was paying our way home.

- When we got to the front, we realized we were had. It was simply a line to make a free phone call to a Celebrity Air rep, or to use a laptop and make your own flight arrangements.  Celebrity Air was working with less-than-the-available-market air carriers, and was coming up with expensive and lengthy multi-stop itineraries. They offered me a 2 stop, 26 hour itinerary back to the US for $4,500. I booked a nonstop flight myself on LATAM for $3,200.

- IT people handed out "free passcodes" for internet.  Unfortunately, one had to burn through their remaining paid internet time in order for their paywall to provide a link for the passcode, and then when disconnected, the passcode was void.  Celebrity IT showed their technical incompetence as they were incapable of taking down the ship's internet paywall in an emergency.

- I don't know to whom Captain Leo stated as you report that "charter flights would get us home".  That message never appeared in print and it's certainly not the message which Celebrity Air gave again and again to those continuing cruise passengers attempting to get assistance. Celebrity was to reimburse us $300, and that's all.

- That night, Customer Relations called my cabin at 1:30 am and again at 2:30 am asking what flight arrangements I had made to get myself out of Chile the next day.  I got the impression that Celebrity was working an angle with the Chilean government: "If we can prove our passengers have all made their own flight arrangements will you please let them off the ship?".

- Officers may have circulated the story you relate about civil unrest and labor unions.  However, a bartender started to tell me what was really going on, and I watched him get interrupted and chastised by his superior.  At the time we were denied docking, Chile had already blocked a cruise ship from docking at another part of the country.  Whatever decision Chile reached in closing its ports was consistent and nationwide.

- Celebrity had a hard contract to dock the Eclipse in San Diego on March 30 and unless the port of San Diego could show cause, San Diego had to let us in on that date.  With no stops, Celebrity probably figured they had a few extra days to spare - might as well spend them in Chile arguing with the Chilean government.

 

- Finally, Celebrity / RC is a publicly traded company.  Money has everything to do with the decisions.

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