What things do you see changing??

[travelhound]

38 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

I'd be curious if there might be changes in the kids' programs ... Larger play areas?  Fewer kids permitted at any one time?  Shorter program hours to permit frequent cleaning?  Abolish it totally?  

If fewer people are permitted on the boats, there will be fewer kids.  All of this will only be temporary, until they have a vaccine.

[Jasperdo]

21 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

I’d like to see hand washing stations at each entrance to the buffet. I personally hate the HAL buffet where you have to wait in a line for someone to serve you... it takes a lot longer and often, the first food gets cold while you’re getting the rest.

I totally agree with this. My wife and I went on our first HAL cruise last year. For the most part we really enjoyed it, except for the buffet. We did not like the setup there at all. First you had to wait in a long, slow moving line to get up to the servers. Then you had to look over the menu that was posted. You couldn't see what any of the food items were until the server put it on the plate. Many times something sounded good, but after you got it it wasn't appealing. Plus, there was no portion control. The server would just plop a large portion of everything you asked for on the plate. It made for a messy, unappealing plate of food, in my opinion.

 

What I've always liked about the Princess buffet is being able to look over everything that was on offer, and picking a small sample of things that looked good to me. Then I would go back for seconds of the things I really liked. That was impossible to do on HAL.

[pris993]

This discussion is very interesting to read.  As a long time cruiser, while cruise lines may adopt some measures to improve the overall situation, I do not envision anything as extensive as what many are suggesting here.  A cruise is a vacation, just think do you want to go through any of the measures suggested here before boarding and/or during cruising really?   Reading them, makes me think why would I want to cruise at all.  I have well of 60 cruises, last cruise was on the Grand, to Mexico in February.   Right now I feel about cruising the way I do about flying... I was booked to fly non stop San Francisco to Tel aviv in May, trip cancelled and re booked for September... may not make it then either... depends on how goes.    But if I am traveling, I don't want to be constantly reminded of the risk of getting a virus by someone taking my temperature and other restrictive measures, takes the fun out of the vacation.  I would rather stay home.  I have actually looked into driving to Monterey California in the fall if my trip to Israel get cancelled again.   I do think the cruise lines will work on figuring  out to offer a healthy and balanced product that is still fun or else they will go out of business.  

 

On the other side, do think passengers can do a lot to help themselves.  When we do cruise, we use Room Service for breakfast (less people contact),  we do tours on our own, again less people contact.  We often go to the Crown Grill or the buffet for dinner.  Crown Grill has more space, the buffet we always go very early, before it opens, get a table for two, again less people contact.  We wash our hands constantly, go to our room vs use public restrooms.   We turn heat up in our cabin when we go to bed so we are not sleeping under air conditioning and cool air at night which I feel can give us a cold, doing this we rarely get colds traveling.   When we fly, we wipe down the arm rest and anything we touch with wipes.  We usually book premium coach so we can get two seats together and are not sitting next to a stranger.    If I cruise again, may consider taking gloves but I generally resist touching rails.. use my knuckle for elevator buttons, if I have to push a door open use the back of my hand or elbow.  We are living in a new world and I think in time we will all figure out ways we can help ourselves stay healthy and safe traveling.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

On 4/10/2020 at 7:55 PM, Hlitner said:

It would seem that lacking an effective vaccine there is little the cruise lines can do to deal with COVID-19 and other contagious airborne pathogens.

 

Hank 

This!

[DiamondFour]

9 hours ago, AF-1 said:

I like this idea.  I also think maybe the cruise lines can alter the time they arrive back in port.  Instead of arriving at 5-6 am; they arrive a 3-4pm.  Get pax off and have cleaning crew come in overnight to clean entire ship.  Delta airlines in now fogging all their aircraft after the last flight of the night.  Same system could be used for ships.  

The thought of that was in the back of my mind. 

 

An overnight turnaround where the ship arrives some time in the day for a leisurely all day disembarkation before a massive overnight cleaning on board, carpets, walls, railings, essential maintenance and then an early check in the next morning running for most of the day.

 

It would be costly but its something that is going to have to be considered in the name of hygiene and passenger safety.

 

We have to face the facts that cruising is going to change with some things for the better and some things for the worst. The company cannot be shareholder driven anymore and they must realise that in order to make money they need to minimise the risk such as outbreaks like these. Instead of an all our pursuit for maximum profits the company will need to compromise and balance a healthy profit against measures to keep the ships clean and healthy along with the passengers.

 

It is sad that a pre-boarding medical may be required. This is going to exclude a lot of people from cruising if it happens. Some of us will eventually face a day where we are no longer permitted to cruise.

 

I think this thread is good because it puts ideas out there and gets the ideas in peoples minds. It only takes a few people with a few really good ideas to talk about them and those ideas will make it to company heads and it will be better for all of us.  

[rj42]

I agree that regardless of what procedures that are put in place, they won't be enough to overcome the fear, hassles, and risks, since all it takes is one person to shut down a cruise and turn a vacation into a nightmare. Behavior will be ugly and paranoid, with any sneeze or cough liable to provoke outrage, and there will be suspicion and prejudice against the elderly or Chinese passengers. I was on a Princess cruise after a noro outbreak, and it was completely frustrating and miserable, with every buffet item having to be served, meaning long lines, and no access to salt or pepper or sugar, or golf clubs or basketballs. Some people will disregard hygiene practices, and there will be a lot who will monitor everybody else's behavior. If you think embarkation and disembarkation and tendering at ports is a hassle now, it will be a nightmare in the future.  Even if there is a vaccine, I don't know which passengers are actually immune or have forged a certificate, and a doctor's approval for an elderly passenger doesn't give any assurance at all about contracting or surviving Covid. 

 

The only way to effectively implement the CDC requirements and to get the public feeling safe would be to cut down on passengers, just as restaurants and movie theaters will have to operate at 50% capacity or less. At current passenger levels there's just no way to do that on most ships, particularly if eliminating self-serve at buffets creates even more congestion and waiting in lines in an enclosed area, and an unpleasant buffet experience means more people trying to get into main dining rooms, which are already too full for any distancing. You also can't safely do any passenger drill as currently practiced on any ship. If ships are forced to cut down on passengers, it also probably means they'll try to recoup the lost costs by higher fares and more add-on fees, particularly by adding more exclusive areas on a ship where passengers can pay for more personal space, whether it's a dining place, cabin, spa area, lounge area, or bar.  With a stronger possibility of a delay or cancellation, it will mean more extra travel costs for passengers, lost work, and difficulty in getting a refund for any canceled trip, since the lines will be fighting to stay afloat. 

[AF-1]

After things settle down; and after the different cruise lines decide how to comply with new CDC and WHO orders; I see pricing going up.  They will have to factor the new pricing into the total cost of doing business.  It will cost the companies more to enhance cleaning operations,  changes into how the food establishments look onboard the ships with regards to social distancing etc.  I see change coming; and change can be our friend.  

[PaperSniper4]

14 hours ago, Level six said:

"I can’t wait to hear:  Excuse me. Could you please change your clothing prior to cleaning my stateroom?  Ma’am, do I need to change my underwear too? "

 

I am just bringing up points to think about.  I notice you never do, instead just say stuff like that..........oh well.   

 

I believe this was a joke.......

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

8 hours ago, rj42 said:

I agree that regardless of what procedures that are put in place, they won't be enough to overcome the fear, hassles, and risks, since all it takes is one person to shut down a cruise and turn a vacation into a nightmare. Behavior will be ugly and paranoid, with any sneeze or cough liable to provoke outrage, and there will be suspicion and prejudice against the elderly or Chinese passengers. I was on a Princess cruise after a noro outbreak, and it was completely frustrating and miserable, with every buffet item having to be served, meaning long lines, and no access to salt or pepper or sugar, or golf clubs or basketballs. Some people will disregard hygiene practices, and there will be a lot who will monitor everybody else's behavior. If you think embarkation and disembarkation and tendering at ports is a hassle now, it will be a nightmare in the future.  Even if there is a vaccine, I don't know which passengers are actually immune or have forged a certificate, and a doctor's approval for an elderly passenger doesn't give any assurance at all about contracting or surviving Covid. 

 

The only way to effectively implement the CDC requirements and to get the public feeling safe would be to cut down on passengers, just as restaurants and movie theaters will have to operate at 50% capacity or less. At current passenger levels there's just no way to do that on most ships, particularly if eliminating self-serve at buffets creates even more congestion and waiting in lines in an enclosed area, and an unpleasant buffet experience means more people trying to get into main dining rooms, which are already too full for any distancing. You also can't safely do any passenger drill as currently practiced on any ship. If ships are forced to cut down on passengers, it also probably means they'll try to recoup the lost costs by higher fares and more add-on fees, particularly by adding more exclusive areas on a ship where passengers can pay for more personal space, whether it's a dining place, cabin, spa area, lounge area, or bar.  With a stronger possibility of a delay or cancellation, it will mean more extra travel costs for passengers, lost work, and difficulty in getting a refund for any canceled trip, since the lines will be fighting to stay afloat. 

   Exactly so. 

   And these facts are why what we've known as large-scale, mass-market cruising is toast. Fewer passengers per ship will mean higher fares - there's no escaping that. (Meanwhile, the national recession/depression will mean far, far fewer people being able to afford cruises even at the old prices).

   The coronavirus world needs vastly fewer cruise ships than the pre-coronavirus one did. Probably fewer cruise lines, too.

   

 

 

[G&T Cruisers]

I personally think the days of travel as we knew it are over. With all these new restrictions being put in place it will turn a lot of people off from travel and who knows when some of these islands will open there ports as many do not have the medical facilities to handle an outbreak.

 

[Roger88]

The only thing I see changing is people attitude to things. The current crisis has united nations in a way. We help each other and try value things we didnt notice before. We start to value our parents and grandparents more. Value our time spent with family. We take a better care of our health and dont plan things ahead of time. We started to live today and now. In any case, hope everyone is doing alright, take care guys 

[Cruise Raider]

Somebody mentioned this and it struck a chord ... BALANCE!!  

Cruise on!!!  And ... Happy Easter! 

[Level six]

3 hours ago, PaperSniper4 said:

 

I believe this was a joke.......

Yeah, I know.  It's just a common theme.  Which I wouldn't even notice if not for that goofy photo.   

Edited April 12, 2020 by Level six

[Hlitner]

42 minutes ago, G&T Cruisers said:

I personally think the days of travel as we knew it are over. With all these new restrictions being put in place it will turn a lot of people off from travel and who knows when some of these islands will open there ports as many do not have the medical facilities to handle an outbreak.

 

We agree that it will change travel just like 9/11 changed travel.  But the big question is HOW it will change travel.  DW and I are avid world travelers and perhaps this will cause us to spend more time on land then on sea.  We have already had one cruise cancelled by the cruise line and will soon have a 2nd and possibly 3rd cancelled.  But we are thinking instead of some future cruise we might simply fly to our destination and rent an apartment for a few days or weeks.  This is particularly true for Europe where we are very comfortable just flying-in and going off on our own be it with trains, a leased car, etc.  While we love using a cruise as a means to get to and from many parts of the world that may now change....especially if the cruise lines impose various additional measures that we would view as a hassle.  For example, there is no way DW and I are going to go to our physician, pay hundreds of dollars, and ask him/her to fill out health forms for a cruise.  

 

The cruise industry is in competition with the rest of the travel world and they will need to offer no-hassle travel that is a good value when compared to other travel options.

 

Hank

[PescadoAmarillo]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:55 PM, Hlitner said:

It would seem that lacking an effective vaccine there is little the cruise lines can do to deal with COVID-19 and other contagious airborne pathogens.

 

Hank 

I agree. It’s interesting (at least to me) that, in almost 150 cruises, I have never had noro, even while on Code Red noro ships for weeks at a time. Noro is relatively easy to prevent, given a huge emphasis on hand washing and not touching hands to face, including eating with fingers (items like bread and pastries). However, in recent years of cruising, I have always gotten URIs and LRIs. Always. These can be transmitted more easily via airborne particles. Too many sick people on cruises don’t want to ruin their vacation by staying in their cabin, so they spread it to the rest of us. COVID19 is obviously in that category.  It will impossible to stop the spread on a cruise ship, especially when asymptomatic passengers can be spreading it. 
 

Count me among those who won’t be cruising, or even flying, until there’s a vaccine. Meanwhile, memories of past travels (and nightly blog reading) are providing hours of entertainment until that day comes. 

[Shaver John]

One thing that may change is Princess may not want to use big box stores or TA for booking, and maybe cruisers will not either. We were on the Coral Princess when Princess cancelled all cruises on the 12th of March and as we had made our own arrangements when things began to look bad we booked several airline tickets out of Buenos Aries and were able to get out on the 20th of March. Surely by booking direct this would save Princess so much commission and keep folks from having to go through several layers of administers if and when something like this happens again. So many folks already know what cabin they want, and book with Princess to hold a cabin and then move to another company so it would not change some folks as they then book with TA to get additional discounts and maybe Princess will offer some discounts if this was the case.

[Outerdog]

The general consensus in this thread is that many will not set foot on a cruise ship until there is a vaccine, and even at that point, the cruise experience will be completely unpleasant. We're the "cruise geeks" -- the die-hard folks committed to cruising. How do you think the general public -- those not here on CC --   views a cruise ship right now?

 

You all have made some great points. But one simple point is standing out to me: cruising will never be the same again. So unfortunate. 

[Hlitner]

58 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I agree. It’s interesting (at least to me) that, in almost 150 cruises, I have never had noro, even while on Code Red noro ships for weeks at a time. Noro is relatively easy to prevent, given a huge emphasis on hand washing and not touching hands to face, including eating with fingers (items like bread and pastries). However, in recent years of cruising, I have always gotten URIs and LRIs. Always. These can be transmitted more easily via airborne particles. Too many sick people on cruises don’t want to ruin their vacation by staying in their cabin, so they spread it to the rest of us. COVID19 is obviously in that category.  It will impossible to stop the spread on a cruise ship, especially when asymptomatic passengers can be spreading it. 
 

Count me among those who won’t be cruising, or even flying, until there’s a vaccine. Meanwhile, memories of past travels (and nightly blog reading) are providing hours of entertainment until that day comes. 

Like you we have been on many cruises and once calculated we have spent over 3 years on ships.  During that time neither DW or myself have had Noro despite having been on a few ships with major outbreaks.  For us it was just about common sense and not touching our face.  It is no guarantee, but it sure improves the odds of staying healthy,  But we also have had our share of URIs and about 4 years ago we started doing some of our own mitigation.  As a rule we try to avoid using elevators (being trapped in a small chamber with a coughing or sneezing person is not a good thing) and consciously do our best to avoid folks that are coughing and sneezing.  Sometimes this might mean changing our seats in the theater or bar, but if it is not a big problem we will do it.  Since we started taking those steps our incidence of URIs noticeably dropped...even on very long cruises measured in weeks or months.  But lets face it, with so many folks on a confined ship it is impossible to truly social distance and that also is not a good solution for those of us who love to socialize.

 

DW and I still consider travel an important part of our lives and we are generally away about 6 months a year.  We will still cruise, if the cruise lines will have us, but will likely cruise less and will likely do more cruising on the upscale/spacious luxury ships while minimizing our cruises on crowded mass market vessels.  One exception might be on MSC where we really enjoy their Yacht Club where social distancing is relatively easy unless one wants to venture out to the main part of the vessel and the masses.  We do acknowledge that travel does involve risks (more....now that we have COVID-19) but we are somewhat adventurous travelers who have always been willing to take calculated risks.  The alternative to simply staying home forever is not part of our planning.

 

Hank

[Coral]

Sort of off topic......

 

I wish Princess would not have expanded as quickly as they did. They tried to be everything for everyone and reduced space ratio quite a bit from the original ships they used to sail. Of course this caused for more crowded ships. I am amazed when people go on some of the older ships such as Coral Princess or Grand class make a comment that they never fell crowded. Well, there is a reason for that - the space ratio is much better. I am not a fan of the newer ships because they seem crowded everywhere. Wait times in dining rooms, crowded theaters, atrium, etc.... It has been a turnoff for me.

 

I think when they start, it will only be a portion of the ships. Unfortunately it will be the newer ships because they make more money (fit more people on a ship).

 

I would like a return of smaller ships (I am not talking really small but around or less than 100,000 tonns), better space ratio, designed for very few crowds and outdoor space. The new ships force people inside more which is not desirable for spread of viruses, etc...

 

I hope the cruise lines re-think the concept of cruising.

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We agree that it will change travel just like 9/11 changed travel.  But the big question is HOW it will change travel.  DW and I are avid world travelers and perhaps this will cause us to spend more time on land then on sea.  We have already had one cruise cancelled by the cruise line and will soon have a 2nd and possibly 3rd cancelled.  But we are thinking instead of some future cruise we might simply fly to our destination and rent an apartment for a few days or weeks.  This is particularly true for Europe where we are very comfortable just flying-in and going off on our own be it with trains, a leased car, etc.  While we love using a cruise as a means to get to and from many parts of the world that may now change....especially if the cruise lines impose various additional measures that we would view as a hassle.  For example, there is no way DW and I are going to go to our physician, pay hundreds of dollars, and ask him/her to fill out health forms for a cruise.  

 

The cruise industry is in competition with the rest of the travel world and they will need to offer no-hassle travel that is a good value when compared to other travel options.

 

Hank

Of course unlike 9-11 where the impact was mostly psychological, with Covid-19 , it is not going to be a matter of one choice as much as when countries even allow travelers back in for anything close to a normal travel experience.

[Outerdog]

59 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

now that we have COVID-19

 

Phrasing... very important! 🙂

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, Coral said:

I wish Princess would not have expanded as quickly as they did. They tried to be everything for everyone and reduced space ratio quite a bit from the original ships they used to sail.....

 

I hope the cruise lines re-think the concept of cruising.

 

I agree.  The Miami Herald article below describes what transpired on the Z and R ships on a day by day basis and I can think of several things that would or should change as a result of that experience and that of the Diamond, Grand, Coral, etc.  A better plan in place prior sailing on how to handle emergencies seems like a no brainer to me.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241740696.html

[Coral]

8 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I agree.  The Miami Herald article below describes what transpired on the Z and R ships on a day by day basis and I can think of several things that would or should change as a result of that experience and that of the Diamond, Grand, Coral, etc.  A better plan in place prior sailing on how to handle emergencies seems like a no brainer to me.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241740696.html

That is a disturbing article. I was aware of what was going on but hadn't read an article that put it all together.

 

In the end - we are all humans and it bothers me how restricting medical care become something common. 

[NorthWestPassage]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The cruise industry is in competition with the rest of the travel world and they will need to offer no-hassle travel that is a good value when compared to other travel options.

 

I concur. Public health considerations are important. However from a cruise business viability point of view, if you substantially reduce the convenience/enjoyment factors, while increasing the cost/price substantially, during an extended period of bad PR and a likely extended period of economic recession, you have a perfect failure storm for the cruise industry recovery (especially in the vital first year), particularly for the budget/mainstream and premium passenger market segments. Land based trips will likely be far more attractive as a customer alternative.

[drowelf]

19 hours ago, Jasperdo said:

I totally agree with this. My wife and I went on our first HAL cruise last year. For the most part we really enjoyed it, except for the buffet. We did not like the setup there at all. First you had to wait in a long, slow moving line to get up to the servers. Then you had to look over the menu that was posted. You couldn't see what any of the food items were until the server put it on the plate. Many times something sounded good, but after you got it it wasn't appealing. Plus, there was no portion control. The server would just plop a large portion of everything you asked for on the plate. It made for a messy, unappealing plate of food, in my opinion.

 

What I've always liked about the Princess buffet is being able to look over everything that was on offer, and picking a small sample of things that looked good to me. Then I would go back for seconds of the things I really liked. That was impossible to do on HAL.

I've never had any problem with getting the portions sizes I prefer from a HAL buffet, I just ask for it. As for the menu I generally read the one  posted outside the buffet before I even go in. We also do that for the MDR so we can decide if its MDR or Buffet for the evening. As for viewing the food before hand, I'll generally take a peek as I head to the back of the line. Its pretty easy, at least for me, to view what stuff looks like in between the folks currently getting served.