Over 70 requirements?

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

Just got an email from Princess about new procedures when sailing resumes. Boarding will be denied to passengers or crew with severe, chronic underlying conditions. No mention of age. Wonder how they will implement that?

IIRC, the email as well as the web-site kind of tells you how it's going to happen. Health questionnaire, temperatures being taken and a secondary screening by the medical staff if warranted. If you were less than honest on the questionnaire and it's found out, you'll be disembarked at then next port.

[ldubs]

55 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

IIRC, the email as well as the web-site kind of tells you how it's going to happen. Health questionnaire, temperatures being taken and a secondary screening by the medical staff if warranted. If you were less than honest on the questionnaire and it's found out, you'll be disembarked at then next port.

 

And, I would not be surprised if lying on a health questionnaire would not be considered fraud and potentially void any travel insurance that might otherwise be used to get a person home from that next port.   

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Well, not exactly. Median and mean are what you are referring too if my statistics class from 40 years ago is still correct. Both are different ways of calculating an average. But in general use I admit "average" is used when "mean" is intended.

 

10 hours ago, LDVinNC said:

Ah, yes. Rusty with age, for sure.

 

👍👍 Thanks!  

 

I just went through this on another thread somewhere else on CC.  My stat class was more than 40 years ago.   That is my excuse and I'll stick by it.  

[muggo11]

Yes. The definition and enforcement will be interesting. Diabetes? Cancer?  But what if meds successfully manage it?  I imagine it will be easy find a doctor—for a price—that will happily sign a medical certificate.  If this is a CYA move, doubt if there will be much scrutiny beyond collection of paperwork. 

[Roberto256]

On 4/21/2020 at 1:30 AM, LARGIN said:

Age discrimination means massive Class Action Lawsuit.  🙂 

Here's a precident:

 

In Florida, you must renew your license every 8 years if you are 79 or younger. As long as your license doesn’t expire, you shouldn’t have to take a driver’s test (behind the wheel or written) in order to update your license. Drivers 80 and older must renew their license once every 6 years. At age 80, drivers are required to complete an eye exam at each renewal. The eye exam may be completed free of charge at the DMV, or by your personal medical or eye doctor.

 

https://www.stellartransport.com/florida-take-drivers-test-turn-70/

 

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

👍👍 Thanks!  

 

I just went through this on another thread somewhere else on CC.  My stat class was more than 40 years ago.   That is my excuse and I'll stick by it.  

Mine was even longer ago, the academic year 1966-67. And it was the only A+ I ever received for a class. I was told I was being thrown off the curve and being given an A+. (The next semester, I only got an A.) 

[AF-1]

Looking at Princess new health guidelines;  you should contact Princess if you have an chronic condition.  I assume their medical personal will evaluate your condition and then either tell you to obtain doctors note, or tell you they will refund your money because they don't believe you should be on the cruise.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

21 hours ago, pris993 said:

We are long term Princess cruisers, next cruise we will have 30 cruises.  In all the time we have cruised we have only used the medical center on board 2 times.  Once for a insect bite and another for an ear infection, even though we are both over 70.   We are both in good health with well managed health issues.  No problem getting a doctor letter.  Regardless, I don't see us cruising til maybe 2022... we will wait to see what happens to the cruise experience.  If it changes too much, we may just opt out because we want to avoid the hassle.  Traveling through airports has already gotten to the point we resist flying as much as possible.    The money we use to travel we can stay home and live very well.  We have well over 60 cruises on 9 different lines over the years.. so we have seen what we wanted already.  Cruising need to be a pleasant experience for us to continue going. 

Exactly.

 

Cruise lines are businesses.  They will make it "safe" for them before they do that for paying passengers.  If anyone believes that the recent experiences with at least ten ships involved in various ways with coronavirus hasn't changed the way they will embark passengers again, please think again.  The CLIA/CDC guidance is just a start.  Cruise lines will do what they need to protect themselves from litigation to include requiring health certifications and establishing age requirements.  Ports will do the same.  It will be the "new normal."  

 

Like you, I have been "cruising" since age 5.  The old Cunard Queens, SS America and United States, Independence, and the last 20 years RCI, X, Princess, Azamara and river cruising.  Have set foot on all 7 continents, experienced the fascination of the Galapagos and African safaris.  I am very comfortable, having lived in Europe as a teen and later lived in eastern Europe, to independently travel anywhere in the world.  Spouse mumbling that she wants to see Mongolia (!) and cruising won't get us there.  In the process of battling our TA and Uniworld over a fully paid for cruise originally scheduled for this June and pushed, via FCC, into 2021.  However, CLIA and CDC guidance suggests we will not qualify (both of us north of 75).  Wakeup call to look elsewhere.  Likely, cruising as we have known it, is over.

[AF-1]

Ride-The-Waves;  there was no mention of age restriction in the email Princess sent out.  Their current email talks about contacting them directly if you have a chronic or underlying medical condition.  That's all.  

[Potstech]

Contact them early and often as you will get different answers from different people you talk to.  And none of their answers will matter on boarding day.  That is all.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Mine was even longer ago, the academic year 1966-67. And it was the only A+ I ever received for a class. I was told I was being thrown off the curve and being given an A+. (The next semester, I only got an A.) 

 

Oh boy, I don't recall the grade I received, but I'm pretty sure the statistical probability of my having received an A are pretty low.  😄

[bluesea321]

Maybe this will help:

 

"Princess Cruises Details New Health Guidelines"

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5301/

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

Maybe this will help:

 

"Princess Cruises Details New Health Guidelines"

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5301/

 

This is good info - thanks for sharing. 

 

I think the big question in most folks mind is, in cases where boarding is denied, who decides on the issue of "credit or refund".  

[nini]

On 4/20/2020 at 3:05 PM, janetz said:

Is Princess implementing a policy that if you are over 70 you need a ok from your physician to cruise?

i tried to do a search and did not see it mentioned

Thanks ahead 😊

 

I have spoken to 2 different Princess reps. The first one answered like "The Letter"

had already been implemented. The second rep told me that Princess has NOT

done so. Based on the recent e-mails from Princess, it looks like they may be getting

closer to doing so. 

 

Personally, I do not want a doctor onboard turning me away with his/ her biases

on what a chronic condition is (even well managed, under control) and then turning me

away even though I have a signed statement from my physician. 

 

This is a possible scenario.

 

Let's think about this:

How COMMON is high blood pressure and diabetes? 

[neverbeenhere]

A friend of mine is more concerned that the Cruise lines will put in a minimum I.Q. restriction rather than an Age restriction.

Edited April 22, 2020 by neverbeenhere
He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man.

[Hlitner]

So, it sounds like Princess is already backing away from the CLIA proposal to require physicians notes for those over 70.  Health forms are nothing new and folks routinely just quickly check "No"  to any question.  Prior to COVID-19 we had noticed that several cruise lines had stopped using pre-cruise health forms since they realized that most passengers lied.  But a new form makes sense as it will be seen as a reasonable step that gives the cruise line a legal defense if needed.  I do think that temperature checks are going to become very routine at cruise ships and airports.  Pity the poor person who simply has a common cold with a relatively benign 100f fever.  

 

But here is the big problem with temperature checks.  Consider a couple who spends thousands of dollars on airfare to get to a place like Tokyo or Singapore where they are to embark on a long cruise.  They get a cold or some other mild illness and happen to be running a fever on embarkation day.  Will they be denied boarding?  Given that scenario how many folks are going to fly long distances to take a cruise?  And will the various insurance providers be willing to insure against such an event and reimburse the lost money?   DW and I typically fly Business Class to our more distant cruises and have thousands of dollars invested in Business Class air (usually booked through the cruise line).  I am not so sure we would be willing to gamble that kind of money on a "temperature check."  We would likely avoid future expensive cruises and simply increase our independent land travel to foreign lands.  And how about a crew member who has just be flown (at Princess expense) half way round the world to start a new contract on a ship.  When they get to the vessel they have a fever.  Will Princess deny them boarding, invalidate their contract, etc?  Or will they house them in a local hotel until the fever is gone and then transport them to another port where they can join the ship?

 

Hank

[DaveSJ711]

40 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So, it sounds like Princess is already backing away from the CLIA proposal to require physicians notes for those over 70.  Health forms are nothing new and folks routinely just quickly check "No"  to any question.  Prior to COVID-19 we had noticed that several cruise lines had stopped using pre-cruise health forms since they realized that most passengers lied.  But a new form makes sense as it will be seen as a reasonable step that gives the cruise line a legal defense if needed.  I do think that temperature checks are going to become very routine at cruise ships and airports.  Pity the poor person who simply has a common cold with a relatively benign 100f fever.  

 

But here is the big problem with temperature checks.  Consider a couple who spends thousands of dollars on airfare to get to a place like Tokyo or Singapore where they are to embark on a long cruise.  They get a cold or some other mild illness and happen to be running a fever on embarkation day.  Will they be denied boarding?  Given that scenario how many folks are going to fly long distances to take a cruise?  And will the various insurance providers be willing to insure against such an event and reimburse the lost money?   DW and I typically fly Business Class to our more distant cruises and have thousands of dollars invested in Business Class air (usually booked through the cruise line).  I am not so sure we would be willing to gamble that kind of money on a "temperature check."  We would likely avoid future expensive cruises and simply increase our independent land travel to foreign lands.  And how about a crew member who has just be flown (at Princess expense) half way round the world to start a new contract on a ship.  When they get to the vessel they have a fever.  Will Princess deny them boarding, invalidate their contract, etc?  Or will they house them in a local hotel until the fever is gone and then transport them to another port where they can join the ship?

 

Hank

 

Your hypothetical couple has a fever on embarkation day.  Fever is a symptom of COVID. 

 

If I'm the cruise line, I don't want a feverish couple to board the ship.  If I'm a passenger, I don't want that couple to board the ship.  If I'm a crew member, I don't want that couple to board the ship.

 

The couple shouldn't want to board, either, even if they've spent "thousands of dollars" to fly First Class, Business Class, or Cattle Class.  Why run the risk of infecting other passengers while on board?  And why run the risk of getting very, very sick in that environment?

 

   

[ldubs]

49 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So, it sounds like Princess is already backing away from the CLIA proposal to require physicians notes for those over 70.  Health forms are nothing new and folks routinely just quickly check "No"  to any question.  Prior to COVID-19 we had noticed that several cruise lines had stopped using pre-cruise health forms since they realized that most passengers lied.  But a new form makes sense as it will be seen as a reasonable step that gives the cruise line a legal defense if needed.  I do think that temperature checks are going to become very routine at cruise ships and airports.  Pity the poor person who simply has a common cold with a relatively benign 100f fever.  

 

But here is the big problem with temperature checks.  Consider a couple who spends thousands of dollars on airfare to get to a place like Tokyo or Singapore where they are to embark on a long cruise.  They get a cold or some other mild illness and happen to be running a fever on embarkation day.  Will they be denied boarding?  Given that scenario how many folks are going to fly long distances to take a cruise?  And will the various insurance providers be willing to insure against such an event and reimburse the lost money?   DW and I typically fly Business Class to our more distant cruises and have thousands of dollars invested in Business Class air (usually booked through the cruise line).  I am not so sure we would be willing to gamble that kind of money on a "temperature check."  We would likely avoid future expensive cruises and simply increase our independent land travel to foreign lands.  And how about a crew member who has just be flown (at Princess expense) half way round the world to start a new contract on a ship.  When they get to the vessel they have a fever.  Will Princess deny them boarding, invalidate their contract, etc?  Or will they house them in a local hotel until the fever is gone and then transport them to another port where they can join the ship?

 

Hank

 

Please consider a fever is rarely the symptom of a cold.  A flu - yes.  Coronavirus - yes.  So, I would say not to minimize the existence of a fever.  

 

Fevers being a rare symptom for a cold is from my State's health service.   

[Babr]

15 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

IIRC, the email as well as the web-site kind of tells you how it's going to happen. Health questionnaire, temperatures being taken and a secondary screening by the medical staff if warranted. If you were less than honest on the questionnaire and it's found out, you'll be disembarked at then next port.

I meant the part about chronic, severe underlying conditions. If you call Princess, who makes the determination and how? Is it an agent with a standard list of questions that leads to approval or not. Is it someone with medical training? What criteria do they use? Do they require documentation? If doctors were reluctant to sign previously discussed letters, would they be willing to provide documentation or sign a form? 

 

I’ve read the email. It doesn’t tell me how this is put into practice.
 

[beg3yrs]

18 minutes ago, Babr said:

I meant the part about chronic, severe underlying conditions. If you call Princess, who makes the determination and how? Is it an agent with a standard list of questions that leads to approval or not. Is it someone with medical training? What criteria do they use? Do they require documentation? If doctors were reluctant to sign previously discussed letters, would they be willing to provide documentation or sign a form? 

 

I’ve read the email. It doesn’t tell me how this is put into practice.
 

 

First of all, I'd check out these two links to get a better idea of what the health community considers to be chronic, severe underlying conditions:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/underlying-conditions.html

https://www.brgeneral.org/healthy-lifestyle-blog/2020/march/whats-an-underlying-condition-/

 

If I felt I met these criteria, or almost met them, I'd do what Princess recommends and give them a call before I even booked.

 

It's my personal belief at this time Princess may not have their act together with respect to how they're going to handle this. I can imagine it's all armpits and elbows thrashing around over in Santa Clarita right now. They've go so much on their plate to get done, some bits keep falling onto the floor and will have to be taken care of later.

 

At least with this information you may have some guidance as to your chances of being allowed on an upcoming cruise.

[Babr]

2 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

 

First of all, I'd check out these two links to get a better idea of what the health community considers to be chronic, severe underlying conditions:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/underlying-conditions.html

https://www.brgeneral.org/healthy-lifestyle-blog/2020/march/whats-an-underlying-condition-/

 

If I felt I met these criteria, or almost met them, I'd do what Princess recommends and give them a call before I even booked.

 

It's my personal belief at this time Princess may not have their act together with respect to how they're going to handle this. I can imagine it's all armpits and elbows thrashing around over in Santa Clarita right now. They've go so much on their plate to get done, some bits keep falling onto the floor and will have to be taken care of later.

 

At least with this information you may have some guidance as to your chances of being allowed on an upcoming cruise.

As I said in another post, it is not about me. I don’t have a cruise booked, and my only chronic, underlying condition is age. It is not severe yet.

 

But you did acknowledge the point I was trying to make. It is not entirely clear how this will work.

[beg3yrs]

3 minutes ago, Babr said:

But you did acknowledge the point I was trying to make. It is not entirely clear how this will work.

We're just going to have to be patient while this is all sorted out. Our health professionals are working tirelessly, our elected are (mostly) trying to do the best they can and so are all the business leaders, cruise lines included. It's just going to take some time because nobody has dealt with something like this in today's environment.

[nini]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Fevers being a rare symptom for a cold is from my State's health service.   

 I must be a rare creature- I often get a fever when I have a cold. Yuk

[LDVinNC]

57 minutes ago, nini said:

 I must be a rare creature- I often get a fever when I have a cold. Yuk

 

I do too. I also get a nasty cough with some colds. Only good thing is that I get fewer colds now that I am older.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, nini said:

 I must be a rare creature- I often get a fever when I have a cold. Yuk

 

Haha.  I have had fevers and I guess I never really know what the underlying cause is. Fingers crossed,  I never get one bad enough that it requires that I have to seek a doctor's advice.   Anyway, our health service shared a chart that compares symptoms for a cold, flu, and CV.  I found it pretty educational.   

 

Another question is why the heck do they call it a "cold".  I think what you said, "Yuk",  would be a more descriptive name!