Social Distancing - will ships have to rearrange or even close venues? And who regulates this?

[ilikeanswers]

2 minutes ago, ducklite said:

So you would be happy with tens of thousands of uninsured people visiting Australia each year, and the potential of having numerous critically ill and uninsured people filling your ICU's?  I have a feeling that your NHS wouldn't agree with you.

 

We don't have NHS that is the UK and I never said people should travel uninsured but the fact remains that as long as countries don't make it a regulation for entry to have travel insurance they must therefore expect that people will arrive uninsured and therefore provisions should be made. At the end of the day uninsured people do get sick and do have accidents in which case what are you suppose to do leave them in their sick state hoping they can somehow make it to a plane and get home? If countries are happy to accept uninsured travellers then they should be just as happy at dealing with the mess they leave.

[navybankerteacher]

31 minutes ago, ducklite said:

That would be the mainstreams issue to figure out.  I'm not saying that people need over two million Dollars/Pounds/Euros/Rough Equivalent, but they should have something with at least $250K or so worth of medical insurance plus repatriation.  If they can't afford the insurance, they can't afford the vacation.  

Agreed - but the “mainstreams” have already figured out their business model. : offer very low fares to attract the bargain seekers -then have a lot of nickel-dime add-ons to reach profitability.  The last thing they want is a built-in expense, such as required medical/repatriation insurance, to put themselves out of reach of a significant part of their market —- so, they prefer to off-load the costs of care along with their sick passengers.

 

You only see very low fares proposed for the opening round of Florida and Texas based cruises starting in August —- no details of health measures being put in place, and certainly no suggestion of insurance.  They are truly winging it - and asking their “guests” to take a flier as well.

[ducklite]

33 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

We don't have NHS that is the UK and I never said people should travel uninsured but the fact remains that as long as countries don't make it a regulation for entry to have travel insurance they must therefore expect that people will arrive uninsured and therefore provisions should be made. At the end of the day uninsured people do get sick and do have accidents in which case what are you suppose to do leave them in their sick state hoping they can somehow make it to a plane and get home? If countries are happy to accept uninsured travellers then they should be just as happy at dealing with the mess they leave.

You just made my entire point.  Countries need to start requiring medical cover with repatriation cover to enter.  Without this proof, they should be denied passage, just like they would be if they didn't have a passport or it was expired or expiring.  

[ducklite]

32 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Agreed - but the “mainstreams” have already figured out their business model. : offer very low fares to attract the bargain seekers -then have a lot of nickel-dime add-ons to reach profitability.  The last thing they want is a built-in expense, such as required medical/repatriation insurance, to put themselves out of reach of a significant part of their market —- so, they prefer to off-load the costs of care along with their sick passengers.

 

You only see very low fares proposed for the opening round of Florida and Texas based cruises starting in August —- no details of health measures being put in place, and certainly no suggestion of insurance.  They are truly winging it - and asking their “guests” to take a flier as well.

And the sheeple will follow blindly.  We cancelled our July cruise and rebooked it for next July. 

[ilikeanswers]

44 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Agreed - but the “mainstreams” have already figured out their business model. : offer very low fares to attract the bargain seekers -then have a lot of nickel-dime add-ons to reach profitability.  The last thing they want is a built-in expense, such as required medical/repatriation insurance, to put themselves out of reach of a significant part of their market —- so, they prefer to off-load the costs of care along with their sick passengers.

 

You only see very low fares proposed for the opening round of Florida and Texas based cruises starting in August —- no details of health measures being put in place, and certainly no suggestion of insurance.  They are truly winging it - and asking their “guests” to take a flier as well.

 

Sometimes you do need regulation, relying on people's or corporations's goodwill or good sense can be too naive.

 

12 minutes ago, ducklite said:

You just made my entire point.  Countries need to start requiring medical cover with repatriation cover to enter.  Without this proof, they should be denied passage, just like they would be if they didn't have a passport or it was expired or expiring.  

 

Well that would be the utopic ideal but as it stands countries seem fine with uninsured travellers so they shouldn't be annoyed if something happens to those travallers and they have to deal with it. It is as much their responibility as it is individuals. As long as it is optional it should be expected that some people will arrive without insurance. I can only guess that the money they bring in must outweigh the cost of treating those who need medical care.

[navybankerteacher]

43 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Sometimes you do need regulation, relying on people's or corporations's goodwill or good sense can be too naive.

 

...

Which is why the current opening up of a number of US states, while their COVID situation has not even leveled off, much less improved, is of serious concern.  People just want what they want more than what is responsible/reasonable.

 

The US cruise industry has been getting fat by catering to the unthinking - and apparently is thinking about going back to business as usual.

[clo]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

You just made my entire point.  Countries need to start requiring medical cover with repatriation cover to enter.  Without this proof, they should be denied passage, just like they would be if they didn't have a passport or it was expired or expiring.  

Perhaps this has been mentioned here but what does "proof of insurance" look like?

[ducklite]

Just now, clo said:

Perhaps this has been mentioned here but what does "proof of insurance" look like?

The summary of benefits page that has the policy number, names of insureds, and limits of liability for coverage.

[clo]

27 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Which is why the current opening up of a number of US states, while their COVID situation has not even leveled off, much less improved, is of serious concern.  People just want what they want more than what is responsible/reasonable.

 

Since we won't fly for now, we'd been thinking about taking the RV for a road trip in the fall. BUT then we'd have to figure out which states are actually safe to travel to.

 

29 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The US cruise industry has been getting fat by catering to the unthinking - and apparently is thinking about going back to business as usual.

It will be 'interesting' to see just how unthinking or stupid some people are.

[clo]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

The summary of benefits page that has the policy number, names of insureds, and limits of liability for coverage.

So is it a one-time payment so if it was valid when it was issued then it will remain valid throughout the term? Not like other insurances where one makes a monthly payment? Thanks as always.

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The way I see it is if you want to make money from tourism you have to accept the bad with the good. They want to make money from visitors, they do everything they can to entice these visitors (and especially with things like afterpay they are really going after low income people these days) and the reality is not everyone will be insured or insured to the full hilt especially if no one is regulating it so when something goes wrong I think just washing your hands off them is a little unethical.

 

Well, all I can say is we probably can't be further apart on this one.   I guess the notion of someone being responsible for the decisions they make is becoming a thing of the past.   

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, ducklite said:

The summary of benefits page that has the policy number, names of insureds, and limits of liability for coverage.

 

In the property/casualty insurance world, proof of insurance can be a COI (Certificate of Insurance).  Contains the info you mention which is what you should also see on your declarations page.   Not sure what would apply in the case of health insurance.   

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

We don't have NHS that is the UK and I never said people should travel uninsured but the fact remains that as long as countries don't make it a regulation for entry to have travel insurance they must therefore expect that people will arrive uninsured and therefore provisions should be made. At the end of the day uninsured people do get sick and do have accidents in which case what are you suppose to do leave them in their sick state hoping they can somehow make it to a plane and get home? If countries are happy to accept uninsured travellers then they should be just as happy at dealing with the mess they leave.

 

No one should be left in their sick state, IMO.  They should be treated as required or requested.  That doesn't mean they can't receive a bill for the medical care they received.   Under what you propose, how would pre-existing conditions be treated?  If those are covered, your medical system will be overloaded in the blink of an eye.  

 

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

Well, all I can say is we probably can't be further apart on this one.   I guess the notion of someone being responsible for the decisions they make is becoming a thing of the past.   

 

I never said that it is not an individual responsibility but I think to say that all the onus is on the individual is wrong. Travel insurance is optional and as long as countries are willing to take money from uninsured travellers they bear some responsibility for their care when things go wrong. 

 

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

Under what you propose, how would pre-existing conditions be treated?  If those are covered, your medical system will be overloaded in the blink of an eye.  

 

I actually don't understand what you are referring to in this last statement. Is there any way you could clarify? 

[ducklite]

9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I never said that it is not an individual responsibility but I think to say that all the onus is on the individual is wrong. Travel insurance is optional and as long as countries are willing to take money from uninsured travellers they bear some responsibility for their care when things go wrong. 

 

 

I actually don't understand what you are referring to in this last statement. Is there any way you could clarify? 

I think they mean that people will flock to your country and then suddenly need medical care which they have no plans to pay for.

[ilikeanswers]

43 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I think they mean that people will flock to your country and then suddenly need medical care which they have no plans to pay for.

 

The poster said "If those are covered" and I thought the discussion was about uninsured travellers, so this confuses me and I don't understand what difference it makes if you have pre existing conditions. If you are uninsured isn't that a moot point, you are not covered for anything anyway? As you see I'm a little confused by it all hopefully the poster can clarify for me🤗

Edited May 16, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[zqvol]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:41 PM, Host Kat said:

Cruise Lines Start Outlining Return to Service Plans

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5330/

 

I assume all the lines are still developing protocols in conjunction with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and local authorities.

 

 

I don't think that anything will change, but I don't expect cruises to restart until a vaccine is available, and you will likely have to provide proof that you have been vaccinated before you board.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, zqvol said:

 

I don't think that anything will change, but I don't expect cruises to restart until a vaccine is available, and you will likely have to provide proof that you have been vaccinated before you board.

So what you are saying is that if there is not a vaccine within the next year the cruise industry will be history.  Why?  Because none of the major cruise companies can survive (financially) more then a year!   And what are the odds of having a safe/effective vaccine within a year?  Consider that it has never been done!  Ever!  In fact, there has never been a safe effective vaccine for anything that was developed/used in under 3 years!    So, when I hear President Trump and others talking about a vaccine by the end of this year I pray that they are right, there will be a miracle of medical science, and it will happen.  But a lifetime in the medical insurance world makes me skeptical.

 

Hank

[ldubs]

22 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I never said that it is not an individual responsibility but I think to say that all the onus is on the individual is wrong. Travel insurance is optional and as long as countries are willing to take money from uninsured travellers they bear some responsibility for their care when things go wrong. 

 

 

I actually don't understand what you are referring to in this last statement. Is there any way you could clarify? 

 

Sorry if I was confusing.  By covered I meant eligible for the free medical provided to tourists that you propose.   Folks can save thousands for the cost of a round trip airfare.   Additionally, if I read your post correctly, this free medical service would only apply to uninsured folks.   If that were to happen, why would anyone be motivated to purchase insurance.    

 

So I suppose we are just at opposite ends of this one.   Take care.    

[ilikeanswers]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Sorry if I was confusing.  By covered I meant eligible for the free medical provided to tourists that you propose.   Folks can save thousands for the cost of a round trip airfare.   Additionally, if I read your post correctly, this free medical service would only apply to uninsured folks.   If that were to happen, why would anyone be motivated to purchase insurance.    

 

So I suppose we are just at opposite ends of this one.   Take care.    

 

Well that makes it a lot clearer thanks🤗. To be fair that is the point I am trying to explain, if countries don't make travel insurance a regulation of entry someone at the end of the day has to foot the bill and while some can pay out of pocket there are plenty who can't and once they leave the country it is nearly impossible to extract money from them. It is hard for me to be sympathetic to the complaints of these countries because it is an easy to remedy problem but they obviously fear cutting into their customer numbers more. As I said in another post you can't just rely on good sense and good will and if countries aren't willing to mitigate that financial risk then IMO that is the price they choose to pay and they shouldn't complain about it.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[taglovestocruise]

Take a look at Wisconsin or the California beaches.  People are packed side by side, no corona concern at all.  I was surprised yesterday at my local grocery store, at least half were wearing no mask or covering. A few of the checkers were also mask free. People are fed up with stay at home and the new normal is a fools folly. Another week or two and covid 19 news will on the back burner news about the economy will be front and center.  In a year cruise ship buffetts will be in full swing. 

[lenquixote66]

4 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Take a look at Wisconsin or the California beaches.  People are packed side by side, no corona concern at all.  I was surprised yesterday at my local grocery store, at least half were wearing no mask or covering. A few of the checkers were also mask free. People are fed up with stay at home and the new normal is a fools folly. Another week or two and covid 19 news will on the back burner news about the economy will be front and center.  In a year cruise ship buffetts will be in full swing. 

It is wonderful to be so optimistic .A Southern California politician declared in March that the virus is a hoax.Thankfully he does not have too many followers.

[chipmaster]

5 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Take a look at Wisconsin or the California beaches.  People are packed side by side, no corona concern at all.  I was surprised yesterday at my local grocery store, at least half were wearing no mask or covering. A few of the checkers were also mask free. People are fed up with stay at home and the new normal is a fools folly. Another week or two and covid 19 news will on the back burner news about the economy will be front and center.  In a year cruise ship buffetts will be in full swing. 

 

No, what we'll see is a spike in deaths at hospitals and a swing again to lock down, this is simply ignorance and stupidity at epic levels across all levels of the population.

 

In Europe and Asian the culture seems to have evolved to actually obey guidelines, freedom in US really has taken a turn to the sad down side.    

[taglovestocruise]

30 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

No, what we'll see is a spike in deaths at hospitals and a swing again to lock down, this is simply ignorance and stupidity at epic levels across all levels of the population.

 

In Europe and Asian the culture seems to have evolved to actually obey guidelines, freedom in US really has taken a turn to the sad down side.    

Disney is partially opening Disney Springs next week and then most of the restaurants the following week. Hopefully the US will never turn into a nanny state.  VIVA Sweden.. 

[DaveSJ711]

15 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

Disney is partially opening Disney Springs next week and then most of the restaurants the following week. Hopefully the US will never turn into a nanny state.  VIVA Sweden.. 

 

Ah yes, Sweden.  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html