Ruby Princess - Special Inquiry - Evidence To Date

[Blackduck59]

2 minutes ago, NSWP said:

As we used to say...'In the too hard basket' OR 'On the Back Burner.'😁   All the associated papers would end up in the 'one way fax.' (ye olde shredder.)🤢

 

I wondered when we would hear from you again, I have missed your input. Cheers good to see you back.

[Cyrix400]

For those following the Inquiry proceedings: on Monday 15 June the Commissioner continued with close, technical  questioning of another Dr who was the member of the assessment panel (4 drs involved in panel's deliberations).

On Tues 16 June the Commission has a private hearing (?? shy pax - or something else?).Public hearings resuming Wed.

Limited press coverage of the day's summary of evidence. Here is the one from

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/15/ruby-princess-would-have-been-assessed-as-medium-covid-19-risk-health-official-tells-inquiry

Some quotes:

"Ship was considered low risk as updated status preventing passengers from disembarking was not reflected on assessment form

A New South Wales public health official thinks he would have assessed the Ruby Princess as being a medium Covid-19 risk ahead of the ill-fated cruise ship’s arrival in Sydney, had he considered a guideline change during his assessment."

[MicCanberra]

Thanks for the update.

[Aus Traveller]

I heard evidence from one of the Health Dept doctors where he said that the main reason for allowing passengers to disembark without delay, was their concern about people missing their flights if they were held on board. Who is he kidding???? Since when would that have figured in the thinking of a government official?

 

He obviously didn't consider that passengers had to re-book flights because the ship was coming in two days early. After the long delay in disembarkation of the previous cruise, it would be pretty obvious Princess would expect similar delays this time. Therefore they would advise passengers that they had to book flights very late in the day to allow for this delay. To me, this reasoning is obvious. (BTW, we were told to expect delays disembarking from Sea Princess in Brisbane on 8th March.)

 

Health officials didn't even turn up at the Passenger Terminal. That's how concerned they were. Forget about the excuse of catching flights - that is an excuse thought up after the fact. They could have temperature tested everyone as they disembarked. It would have slowed the process, but not too much.

 

 

[BRANDEE]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

I heard evidence from one of the Health Dept doctors where he said that the main reason for allowing passengers to disembark without delay, was their concern about people missing their flights if they were held on board. Who is he kidding???? Since when would that have figured in the thinking of a government official?

 

He obviously didn't consider that passengers had to re-book flights because the ship was coming in two days early. After the long delay in disembarkation of the previous cruise, it would be pretty obvious Princess would expect similar delays this time. Therefore they would advise passengers that they had to book flights very late in the day to allow for this delay. To me, this reasoning is obvious. (BTW, we were told to expect delays disembarking from Sea Princess in Brisbane on 8th March.)

 

Health officials didn't even turn up at the Passenger Terminal. That's how concerned they were. Forget about the excuse of catching flights - that is an excuse thought up after the fact. They could have temperature tested everyone as they disembarked. It would have slowed the process, but not too much.

 

 

 

I also love the excuse..if we knew that there were 900 international passengers, especially Americans and Ukers, we would have elevated the risk level to medium (not that this would have changed disembarkation one bit).  Passengers had to fill out an additional health questionnaire before we got to Wellington..It added  the west coast of the US and a few other places.  It questioned where we were 14 days prior to that date  (Mar 14th)   Who got that information? 

 

As an education administrator and teacher, I have very little tolerance for people who do not accept the consequences of their actions. I taught this to to youngest of students.

 

As I said from the very first post when I returned..I made an adult decision to vacation and cruise in Australia/New Zealand/Fiji based on the knowledge of covid in the world but not ever realizing the quick spread from the time I left the US at the end of February.  Obviously, I did not make a good decision. 

 

Did I depend too much on the don't worry it will be gone by Easter preached by trump..no..he is an idiot.  Did I depend too much on the feeling that Australia and New Zealand and Fiji were very safe?  Yep.  Did I really think the very strict NSW Health Department was going to "look" out for me? Somewhat!  Did I think Princess had my safety number one..no..money/profit is first..maybe #2.  No one dragged me up the gangplank the morning of Mar 8th..even after a 6 hour delay.  Did I feel a slight pang of "I think we might have just made a mistake" as the cabin door closed on embarkation?  Yep..we were not screened as promised..I accept the consequences of my actions (not like that smuck who did not go to the doctor's due to cost).

 

However, I still what to know if the neglect of enforcing policies and procedures by Princess and/or NSW Health could have helped avoid the spread of covid not only to Australia, but to the countries of the international passengers.

 

[Cruisegroover]

6 hours ago, Cyrix400 said:

 

On Tues 10 June the Commission has a private hearing (?? shy pax - or something else?).Public hearings resuming Wed.

 

On 10 June Mr Beasley said -  That leaves us to the witnesses we have for today, tomorrow and Monday. The four witnesses in those three days are the four people – four medical experts that were part of the New South Wales health assessment team in relation to the assessment of risk on the Ruby Princess. The first witness today is Dr Sean Tobin. Tomorrow is Professor Ferson. We then adjourn until Monday, the 15th, when we have Dr Hess. There is another witness who’s been summonsed – and I won’t say anything about that witness at the moment. There is an application that was made to you in relation to that witness on Friday. And that’s an ongoing process at the moment. And we’re waiting to hear back from Health in relation to what might occur there.

 

Maybe the 4th witness there are referring to has the private hearing today. The transcript for yesterday is not up yet so will check that if they say anything about todays hearing.

I also wonder if Dr Kerry Chant will be called as she is the Chief Health Officer and Deputy Secretary Population and Public Health ie the head of all the witnesses that have appeared for NSW Health so far and the author of several documents relating to protocols for cruise ships.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Cruisegroover
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[NSWP]

I just have a feeling in my old bones that the cruise line, Federal/State Govt and their agencies, i.e. Border Force, NSW Health, are all going to get caned at the end of the day, standby.👮‍♂️

[Cyrix400]

RE the Commissioner's previous questions  as to WHO exactly was responsible for the preparation of the Ruby Princes report - which he called 'spin' and 'misleading'.

  Interesting exhibit 49 (scroll down on the site to exhibits list  https://www.rubyprincessinquiry.nsw.gov.au/hearings/ 

This is a statement of a Doctor showing exactly what was her role in completing/ editing of the report

(Also, apparently the Media Director was involved somehow re report - not clear at this stage).

[BRANDEE]

31 minutes ago, Cyrix400 said:

RE the Commissioner's previous questions  as to WHO exactly was responsible for the preparation of the Ruby Princes report - which he called 'spin' and 'misleading'.

  Interesting exhibit 49 (scroll down on the site to exhibits list  https://www.rubyprincessinquiry.nsw.gov.au/hearings/ 

This is a statement of a Doctor showing exactly what was her role in completing/ editing of the report

(Also, apparently the Media Director was involved somehow re report - not clear at this stage).

Is it known who the Commissioner interviewed on Tuesday in closed court?  With the time difference in NY..The dates get confusing..especially very late at night....

 

[Cruisegroover]

27 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Is it known who the Commissioner interviewed on Tuesday in closed court?  With the time difference in NY..The dates get confusing..especially very late at night....

 

Its Tuesday mid afternoon ie 1440 so not yet. It will be interesting to see if the transcript of today's hearing is published.

[Ondine]

1 hour ago, Cyrix400 said:

RE the Commissioner's previous questions  as to WHO exactly was responsible for the preparation of the Ruby Princes report - which he called 'spin' and 'misleading'.

  Interesting exhibit 49 (scroll down on the site to exhibits list  https://www.rubyprincessinquiry.nsw.gov.au/hearings/ 

This is a statement of a Doctor showing exactly what was her role in completing/ editing of the report

(Also, apparently the Media Director was involved somehow re report - not clear at this stage).

 

I read some of the Exhibit 49.  It is very long but interesting.  Seems odd to me that people who were not involved in bring Ruby into port were writing up or editing a paper on it.   Especially when several of them had no experience of cruise ships.

 

I did notice on one of the required papers filled in by the ship's doctor it stated that they were not charging for consultations for respiratory symptoms.  Kind of knocks on the head that lady on TV who stated she did not seek treatment because of the cost.  Not that she was very believable anyway.

 

Also read the link to the Guardian.  There was another link on that page from May 5th with the conversation between the harbour master's dept and the ambulance sent to the ship regarding the wearing of protective gear.

[By The Bay]

9 hours ago, Cyrix400 said:

 

On Tues 16 June the Commission has a private hearing (?? shy pax - or something else?).

Dr Kerry Chant perhaps?

[christodan]

Yes Ondine, I read parts of exhibit 52 in which it states that patients on the Ruby Princess were asked to go to the medical facility free of charge if they had symptoms. Furthermore, Ruby Princess offered to drop off the swabs a day early prior to disembarking passengers. And the Dr from NSW public health admitted to an oversight in which any international travellers with symptoms (including those on cruise ships) met the criteria for 'suspected case' of COVID-19, but she did not realise that. So there you have it.  Good luck in blaming Princess.

[MicCanberra]

Seems it gets worse for the Health Department every day.

[Porky55]

10 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Seems it gets worse for the Health Department every day.

Reading through some of the documents in evidence - it just seemed like they were in chaos from February. (As was everyone) - they - NSWH & Co. - should just ‘Step Up’ and own the error.

And let us get back to cruising with the “new normal”.

[MicCanberra]

15 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

Reading through some of the documents in evidence - it just seemed like they were in chaos from February. (As was everyone) - they - NSWH & Co. - should just ‘Step Up’ and own the error.

And let us get back to cruising with the “new normal”.

Even if they do that, that doesn't mean they will allow cruise ships back sooner, more likely to be later as they will be over cautious.

[Porky55]

Just now, MicCanberra said:

Even if they do that, that doesn't mean they will allow cruise ships back sooner, more likely to be later as they will be over cautious.

Too true 🙄

[Cyrix400]

2 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Even if they do that, that doesn't mean they will allow cruise ships back sooner, more likely to be later as they will be over cautious.

 

And   don't forget  the problem with "More than 40,000 cruise ship workers are still stuck at sea because of concerns about the coronavirus"   - still not solved as at 15 June, apparently.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/report-40000-cruise-ship-workers-trapped-sea-71246537
 

[BRANDEE]

Commissioner Walker is on the war path today..showing a total lack of patience for Dr. Sheppeard testimony!!

[Cruisegroover]

40 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Commissioner Walker is on the war path today..showing a total lack of patience for Dr. Sheppeard testimony!!

And his comment about wanting to see the building super about the noise was a pointer he was in a no nonsense mood at the beginning of the morning's session. He is even shutting down Gail Furness who I have worked with on a recent royal commission. Ms Furness is a very formidable counsel and gives as good as she gets.

[NSWP]

Sounds like a battle Royale at the inquiry, take no prisoners Commissioner Walker, doeth thy duty without fear or favour.👮‍♂️

Edited June 17, 2020 by NSWP

[Cruisegroover]

Hearing adjourned for the day. Tomorrow's witness is Dr Jeremy McAnulty Director of Health Protection, NSW Health. For the benefit of our overseas readers Dr McAnulty often appears for NSW Health in press conferences and has been seen recently giving COVID-19 updates. His boss is Dr Kerry Chant, Chief Health Officer.

[Cyrix400]

2 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Commissioner Walker is on the war path today..showing a total lack of patience for Dr. Sheppeard testimony!!

And also critical of CARNIVAL, in not taking very seriously NSW Health requirements to have sufficient swabs on board - and really wanting to find  out exactly  WHAT  did Dr Sheppeard do about it,  when she found out that Ruby had ZERO swabs on board  on 7 March (second last cruise) - this was when NSW Health had to give the ship swabs 'at Government expense' , as the Commissioner noted.

 

Link and  the newsworthy quotes of the short summary  headed:  " Cruise ships reqularly  flouted NSW Government's coronavirus advice, Ruby Princess inquiry hears.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-17/ruby-princess-inquiry-told-not-unusual-for-no-covid-swabs/12364182

 

"The notion that these very large corporations were unable to procure swabs for love or money strikes me as almost impossible to believe could be seriously advanced, do you understand?" Commissioner Bret Walker SC asked " ( Dr S)

"What does seem quite likely is that they weren't trying enough, and that is because they didn't care enough' 

1 hour ago, Cruisegroover said:

And his comment about wanting to see the building super about the noise was a pointer he was in a no nonsense mood at the beginning of the morning's session. He is even shutting down Gail Furness who I have worked with on a recent royal commission. Ms Furness is a very formidable counsel and gives as good as she gets.

 

The Commissioner did not accept the  objection of Ms Furness (who acts for Carnival) when he was questioning Dr S as to her attitude to Ruby Princess non-compliance with the NSW Health requirements in the enhanced procedure for cruise ships (including keeping sufficient swabs)

And also another question from the Commissioner to Dr S which I noted:  "It was your job to form judgments about the care and alacrity with which cruise ships have been complying with the public health stipulations ? Yes"

Interesting exchange this morning.

 

.

 

 

[Cruisegroover]

20 minutes ago, Cyrix400 said:

And also critical of CARNIVAL, in not taking very seriously NSW Health requirements to have sufficient swabs on board - and really wanting to find  out exactly  WHAT  did Dr Sheppeard do about it,  when she found out that Ruby had ZERO swabs on board  on 7 March (second last cruise) - this was when NSW Health had to give the ship swabs 'at Government expense' , as the Commissioner noted.

 

Link and  the newsworthy quotes of the short summary  headed:  " Cruise ships reqularly  flouted NSW Government's coronavirus advice, Ruby Princess inquiry hears.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-17/ruby-princess-inquiry-told-not-unusual-for-no-covid-swabs/12364182

 

"The notion that these very large corporations were unable to procure swabs for love or money strikes me as almost impossible to believe could be seriously advanced, do you understand?" Commissioner Bret Walker SC asked " ( Dr S)

"What does seem quite likely is that they weren't trying enough, and that is because they didn't care enough' 

 

The Commissioner did not accept the  objection of Ms Furness (who acts for Carnival) when he was questioning Dr S as to her attitude to Ruby Princess non-compliance with the NSW Health requirements in the enhanced procedure for cruise ships (including keeping sufficient swabs)

And also another question from the Commissioner to Dr S which I noted:  "It was your job to form judgments about the care and alacrity with which cruise ships have been complying with the public health stipulations ? Yes"

Interesting exchange this morning.

 

.

 

 

Ms Furness acts for NSW Health and Mr McClure acts for Carnival. 

[Cyrix400]

38 minutes ago, Cruisegroover said:

Ms Furness acts for NSW Health and Mr McClure acts for Carnival. 

 

Thank you - I have just realised it now, and was about to make this correction.

Apologies for my mistake.