Ruby Princess - Special Inquiry - Evidence To Date

[GEcruzer]

20 hours ago, mr walker said:

I don't consider it to be so absolutely important of who may have been #0 or #1, depending on the convention chosen, on Ruby Princess.

 

The problem is the systemic & individual failures that followed the initial spread that have become apparent during the inquiry.

 

Disasters are most often the result of a series of mistakes/errors/failures & this will likely become a casebook study.

 

[GEcruzer]

Interesting reading, it’s unfortunate that the cruise industry as a whole has been vilified by media and authorities.

As Mr Walker states a series of errors and failures has lead to poor  outcomes for all those involved. 
If you watch enough Aircraft investigation it’s not just one thing that leads to disaster, it’s a combination of many internal and external factors.

Im wondering why major airlines aren’t put under the same microscope?

 I’m pretty sure all those major international airlines had some role to play by disembarking possible virus infected passengers!

lets give a quiet thought to those who have lost their life for no reason other than going on a cruise.

[BRANDEE]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agree with your comments. I still cannot see the need for these enquiries. I feel an internal government one to see what went wrong with their systems would have been sufficient.

 

If it had been known (or suspected) that there was COVID on board what would have been different? The ship could not have been kept at sea where the risk to passengers would have been worse. All passengers could have been placed on quarantine ashore. However, I don't think the government had the facilities to keep 2,700 people in quarantine. Although there are pie-charts etc showing the proportion of COVID cases in Australia linked to the Ruby Princess, these numbers would have been only slightly reduced if the passengers had been put into quarantine. They were already infected before they disembarked.

 

What would have been different?  We would have had 19 fewer cases (those identified as being secondary infections) but most likely, the same number of deaths. 

 

Maybe there would have been fewer cases among the crew, but this isn't definite because the doctors on the ship were advised a couple of days after docking that a small number of passengers had tested positive to COVID. If the crew had gone into lockdown at that time, the infection rate would have been much lower among the crew. 

There would have been less cases in the "other" countries and spreading  or deaths if the NSW Health did their job. But as Ms Ressler said..where to quarantine 2700 in hotels? How come no comments made about the Ovation of the Sea, that was allowed to dock on Mar 18 and also let all their passengers off and over 98+ Aussie  passengers had covid.  I still believe someone in power..told the NSW Health to get the passengers  out of town before they overwhelmed the health system. Just listen to Ms Ressler's testimony..she was basically saying we wanted them off and home .

[mr walker]

1 hour ago, GEcruzer said:

lets give a quiet thought to those who have lost their life for no reason other than going on a cruise.

 

Perhaps a good point to end on at this stage of proceedings. RIP

[Pushka]

22 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

There would have been less cases in the "other" countries and spreading  or deaths if the NSW Health did their job. But as Ms Ressler said..where to quarantine 2700 in hotels? How come no comments made about the Ovation of the Sea, that was allowed to dock on Mar 18 and also let all their passengers off and over 98+ Aussie  passengers had covid.  I still believe someone in power..told the NSW Health to get the passengers  out of town before they overwhelmed the health system. Just listen to Ms Ressler's testimony..she was basically saying we wanted them off and home .

I believe there were only 13 passengers with respiratory issues on disembarkation which for a ship that size is extremely low. So they were cleared. Currently we have many more than 2700 people in quarantine after overseas travel throughout Australia. And hundreds arriving into quarantine every day. It could have been done. 

[Aus Traveller]

12 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I believe there were only 13 passengers with respiratory issues on disembarkation which for a ship that size is extremely low. So they were cleared. Currently we have many more than 2700 people in quarantine after overseas travel throughout Australia. And hundreds arriving into quarantine every day. It could have been done. 

When Ruby Princess returned on 19th March, I don't believe the government had arranged hotels for quarantine. That was done later.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[BRANDEE]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I believe there were only 13 passengers with respiratory issues on disembarkation which for a ship that size is extremely low. So they were cleared. Currently we have many more than 2700 people in quarantine after overseas travel throughout Australia. And hundreds arriving into quarantine every day. It could have been done. 

What I am commenting on ....is why no mention or news in the media  about the Ovation of the Sea. I found one.  

 

Yes, they were low risk and cleared, but within a week there were over 98 Australian passengers with covid who cruised on her.  Ovation docked one day earlier with no advice to self isolate. Did NSW Health reach out to her international passengers passengers like they tried with the Ruby passengers?

 

I wonder how many they infected..but not a mention about that ship (and others). No followup..no daily count on how many sick/dead Australians because of the Ovation.  Just the constant  count from the Ruby and a death threat to a UK traveler who innocently posted when she got home and was now feeling ill,  plus two inquiries/trials regarding criminal intent..

 

I understand the numbers from the Ruby are high..but you hear noting of the other ships that put in port that week.

I had the pleasure of sitting next to a dancer from the Ovation for my 15 hr flight home. Wonder which one of us shared covid to the other.  She was going home to Arizona for a family reunion. Certainly hope she and her family escaped any infection.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, BRANDEE said:

What I am commenting on ....is why no mention or news in the media  about the Ovation of the Sea. I found one.  

 

Yes, they were low risk and cleared, but within a week there were over 98 Australian passengers with covid who cruised on her.  Ovation docked one day earlier with no advice to self isolate. Did NSW Health reach out to her international passengers passengers like they tried with the Ruby passengers?

 

I wonder how many they infected..but not a mention about that ship (and others). No followup..no daily count on how many sick/dead Australians because of the Ovation.  Just the constant  count from the Ruby and a death threat to a UK traveler who innocently posted when she got home and was now feeling ill,  plus two inquiries/trials regarding criminal intent..

 

I understand the numbers from the Ruby are high..but you hear noting of the other ships that put in port that week.

I had the pleasure of sitting next to a dancer from the Ovation for my 15 hr flight home. Wonder which one of us shared covid to the other.  She was going home to Arizona for a family reunion. Certainly hope she and her family escaped any infection.

You make some good points.

[Pushka]

I think sadly that Diamond Princess threw a spotlight on Princess cruises in Australia. BRANDEE, being in the US, is there one particular cruiseline that seems to be attracting more attention than others?

[The_Big_M]

5 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

What I am commenting on ....is why no mention or news in the media  about the Ovation of the Sea. I found one.  

 

Yes, they were low risk and cleared, but within a week there were over 98 Australian passengers with covid who cruised on her.  Ovation docked one day earlier with no advice to self isolate. Did NSW Health reach out to her international passengers passengers like they tried with the Ruby passengers?

 

I wonder how many they infected..but not a mention about that ship (and others). No followup..no daily count on how many sick/dead Australians because of the Ovation.  Just the constant  count from the Ruby and a death threat to a UK traveler who innocently posted when she got home and was now feeling ill,  plus two inquiries/trials regarding criminal intent..

 

I understand the numbers from the Ruby are high..but you hear noting of the other ships that put in port that week.

I had the pleasure of sitting next to a dancer from the Ovation for my 15 hr flight home. Wonder which one of us shared covid to the other.  She was going home to Arizona for a family reunion. Certainly hope she and her family escaped any infection.

 

 

 

There has been mention in the media of Ovation, especially early on. However, over time as the cases on Ruby grew, so did the focus there. The reason was it was the biggest cruise ship source by far - and outweighs the cases on all other ships combined!

[BRANDEE]

12 hours ago, Pushka said:

I think sadly that Diamond Princess threw a spotlight on Princess cruises in Australia. BRANDEE, being in the US, is there one particular cruiseline that seems to be attracting more attention than others?

 

The Grand Princess got attention while we were in Australia  and shortly after our return home both the Rotterdam and Zaadam returning from South America was in the news..but really no other ship other than the Ruby Princess .  CCL is top of the list!  US news the past two months has been filled mostly with the daily tweets of the vacuous dullard in charge. I don't know why your country continues to waste money testing and tracing infected people..really don't you know that doesn't really matter..your country should instead join the US in it's new presidential inspired counterattack for covid..Space Force and the Operation Warp Speed!     Live Long and Prosper!

[Pushka]

2 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

 

The Grand Princess got attention while we were in Australia  and shortly after our return home both the Rotterdam and Zaadam returning from South America was in the news..but really no other ship other than the Ruby Princess .  CCL is top of the list!  US news the past two months has been filled mostly with the daily tweets of the vacuous dullard in charge. I don't know why your country continues to waste money testing and tracing infected people..really don't you know that doesn't really matter..your country should instead join the US in it's new presidential inspired counterattack for covid..Space Force and the Operation Warp Speed!     Live Long and Prosper!

Thanks, that's interesting then. Carnival must be reeling. 
 

If it wasn't so tragic about Covid in the US I'd put a 😂 on your post. South Australia is now officially Covid free. No positives in well over a week and no active cases. Now we need to work our way back to some kind of normal. 

[rickays]

 

Article on ships with covid - check out the pie chart further into the article - Carnival have not done too bad in the number of infected ships BUT I think they are the top in infected passengers numbers.  Also of note is the statement: "Carnival provided the most detailed reports, including breakdowns of cases by ship, crew, and passengers. It was the only company to provide this amount of detail." 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html

 

Wikipedia has list of ships and infections (might be accurate) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_cruise_ships

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by rickays

[Aus Traveller]

5 hours ago, Pushka said:

Thanks, that's interesting then. Carnival must be reeling. 
 

If it wasn't so tragic about Covid in the US I'd put a 😂 on your post. South Australia is now officially Covid free. No positives in well over a week and no active cases. Now we need to work our way back to some kind of normal. 

Congratulations to South Australia🙂. In Queensland we have infections in a state government-owned care facility that caters for high-care residents. A nurse continued going to work even though she had symptoms since 5th May. She went back to work while waiting for test results. Why can't they learn?????

[christodan]

24 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

A nurse continued going to work even though she had symptoms since 5th May. She went back to work while waiting for test results. Why can't they learn?????

 

Probably because she was a casual and needed the money. Why else would you work if you felt sick? Maybe companies (and governments) might think about making people full or part time instead.

Edited May 16, 2020 by christodan

[Pushka]

28 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Congratulations to South Australia🙂. In Queensland we have infections in a state government-owned care facility that caters for high-care residents. A nurse continued going to work even though she had symptoms since 5th May. She went back to work while waiting for test results. Why can't they learn?????

Incredibly disappointing given her line of work and what happened with the home in NSW. 

[Roberto256]

13 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

 I don't know why your country continues to waste money testing and tracing infected people..really don't you know that doesn't really matter..your country should instead join the US in it's new presidential inspired counterattack for covid..Space Force and the Operation Warp Speed!     Live Long and Prosper!

 

This new vaccine will be administered by leprechauns riding unicorns ... and wearing MAGA hats.

 

With any vaccine, it could take several years for all the side-effects to be observed in a large population.

 

Why would I risk an untested vaccine?

 

I'm sticking with taking off-label hyrdo-chloraquine and drinking bleach.

 

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Customs investigating whether Ruby Princess cruise ship committed offences on New Zealand visit

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/customs-investigating-whether-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-committed-offences-on-new-zealand-visit.html

 

[christodan]

Why Kiwi? Nobody on the Ruby brought it in NZ did they? So what is the point? 

[Aus Traveller]

9 minutes ago, christodan said:

Why Kiwi? Nobody on the Ruby brought it in NZ did they? So what is the point? 

Yes. There is a fair chance that passengers on the Ruby took the virus to NZ when they visited Napier. There was a cluster there after the ship's visit. ☹️However, the medical staff on the Ruby didn't know they had COVID on board. Tests done in the previous port (Wellington) came back negative. If officers on the Ruby answered questions from NZ Customs officials, then they are not at fault.

[christodan]

OK. The way I see it is if a country wants to blame someone then they should blame themselves for not closing all borders to planes and ships unless they are their own citizens returning home, before this happened.They had the power. But somehow cruise lines are supposed to be psychic about new diseases, but government departments on land are not.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Before a ship is cleared for passengers to go ashore the Medical Officer must present a declaration of health on board to the local authorities. It’s then over to them to allow or deny entry . 
Many ports especially in thePacific will be watching the outcome .

[BRANDEE]

FYI:  The Special Commission of Inquiry has sent an e mail to both my husband and I as passengers on the Mar 8th Ruby sailing.  They are calling for any submissions from passengers especially with an interest to hear from any passengers who visited the medical center during the cruise.  They also informed us that any information answered in the NSW Police Force survey is being handed over to them.  Is the NSW Police Force having a separate inquiry, or are they helping the Special Commission?

 

Also, regarding the covid in Napier after the Ruby left.  Is there also an account of how covid was spread by Ruby passengers in Dunedin, Akaroa and Wellington.  Was Napier the only NZ port where it spread? Actually, I believe my husband got covid in Napier at a fish and chips place.  The man who wrapped the fish in paper was coughing (he did turn his head)but 6 days later my husband got his first symptom of covid.  

[By The Bay]

7 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

They also informed us that any information answered in the NSW Police Force survey is being handed over to them.  Is the NSW Police Force having a separate inquiry, or are they helping the Special Commission?

 

Yes. There are five inquiries in total. The Special Commission of Inquiry, the NSW Police has its own criminal investigation alongside a coronial inquiry, and a senate select committee has taken evidence about the Ruby Princess. The Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment also launched an investigation.

 

The Special Commission is due to hand down their findings by mid-August. The Police Inquiry is expected to report by years end.

[Belmont Babe]

On 5/19/2020 at 12:21 PM, BRANDEE said:

 

 

Also, regarding the covid in Napier after the Ruby left.  Is there also an account of how covid was spread by Ruby passengers in Dunedin, Akaroa and Wellington.  Was Napier the only NZ port where it spread? Actually, I believe my husband got covid in Napier at a fish and chips place.  The man who wrapped the fish in paper was coughing (he did turn his head)but 6 days later my husband got his first symptom of covid.  

I've trawled through the local media reports about the Ruby Princess cluster, and also referenced the publicly-available data from our Ministry of Health.

There are currently 24 cases of Covid-19 directly linked to the Ruby Princess. Six are passengers who came back from Sydney at the end of the cruise. 18 are directly linked to the stop in Napier. There are no cases linked to stops in Dunedin, Akaroa or Wellington.

Four people were tour guides, an interpreter and a bus driver doing shore tours for Princess.

Six are residents of the Gladys Mary Dementia Rest Home in Napier.

The remaining cases appear to be healthcare workers from the rest home, and members of their families.

It is highly unlikely that your husband caught it from the fish and chip shop. The first five cases of Covid 19 reported in Hawke's Bay were returning travelers from Qatar, Spain and Cambodia who arrived in NZ no earlier than the 16/03/20, or in other words, after the visit of the Ruby Princess. The sixth case in Hawke's Bay was the tour guide from the Princess shore tour.