Can't get crews home and we are talking about our next cruise?

[jxtgreek]

I have been cruising for 20 years and want to cruise for another 20 but does anyone have an issue with the fact that we are all talking about our next cruise perhaps late in the summer or the fall and these cruise lines can't get their crews off ships and back home.  I know it is a long shot after cruising does start again and I know it will start but I sure don't want to find myself and my wife quarenteened and not able to get home.  I should add I have 3 cruises booked, one in November 2020, one January 2021 and one March 2021 that I really want to take

[don't-use-real-name]

With the start-up not all 17 NCL ships will be cruising at once.

Maybe 3-5 at the start and then the others added - thus NCL does not need the full

compliment of crew on all the ships to start.

Perhaps will have enough to crew the 3-5 ships and as the other crew members return

from their native home they will be added in time to what is next in sequence.

 

What is not known at this time is if the occupancy (spacing of guests) will result in less

crew required overall in the operation of the ship.

Still too early to note what if any restrictions will be in play with future encounters of the virus.

When one thinks of cruises - the highlight is something to do with the Caribbean Mediterranean

something to do with that beachy tourist thing - Alaska and other cold weather cruises consider that

a closed issue until summer of 2021 - maybe the Baltic later this year (2020).

 

Also consider the airline factor getting to that origin port - the airlines have drastically reduced

the flights and seats getting to the (airline) port city and then too getting home from that cruise.

 

Not everything is going to come together with a BIG BANG and return to those fantastic fabulous

unforgettable cruises of the days of yesteryear - note there is a large emphasis on wearing masks

shopping flying and just being in public all spaced out.

 

Slow and easy - the cure immunity from this virus maybe just around the corner but the restart of

the cruises will not be one giant leap immediately.

 

One thing for sure when cruising gets back into full swing - the popular cruises destinations times

dates will be in HIGH DEMAND and reservations should be considered NOW ! 

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, jxtgreek said:

I have been cruising for 20 years and want to cruise for another 20 but does anyone have an issue with the fact that we are all talking about our next cruise perhaps late in the summer or the fall and these cruise lines can't get their crews off ships and back home.  I know it is a long shot after cruising does start again and I know it will start but I sure don't want to find myself and my wife quarenteened and not able to get home.  I should add I have 3 cruises booked, one in November 2020, one January 2021 and one March 2021 that I really want to take

They can't get the crew off the ship because the United States won't let them disembark the crew under reasonable terms. Charter flights were all set up and the crew had quarantined for the flights. But the US won't let them off. 

 

The cruise lines are preparing to restart NCL Plans

Edited May 11, 2020 by BirdTravels

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

They can't get the crew off the ship because the United States won't let them disembark the crew under reasonable terms. Charter flights were all set up and the crew had quarantined for the flights. But the US won't let them off. 

 

The cruise lines are preparing to restart NCL Plans

While the US has placed some onerous financial hurdles in the way of crew changes, at least they are offering to allow the crew changes to happen.  Most countries have banned crew changes from vessels altogether.

[Markanddonna]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While the US has placed some onerous financial hurdles in the way of crew changes, at least they are offering to allow the crew changes to happen.  Most countries have banned crew changes from vessels altogether.

Good point.  I recall that a few ships were turned away by other  countries and it was the USA who allowed the international passengers to eventually disembark and return home. Also, keep in mind that none of these big cruise lines are registered in the USA and therefore the USA gets no tax revenue from them. Yes, the locals have tourism in the hotels and restaurants.  We all know that, but the cruise lines seem to register in third world and/or corrupt countries.  

[jingle5616]

10 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

They can't get the crew off the ship because the United States won't let them disembark the crew under reasonable terms. Charter flights were all set up and the crew had quarantined for the flights. But the US won't let them off. 

 

The cruise lines are preparing to restart NCL Plans

Or, NCL is to dollar conscious to pay to get their crews home.

[Georgia_Peaches]

Situation with the crew, global pandemic, port closures, quarantine, safety measures, cruising's new normal, refund status, FCC usage, ...none of it will stop me from talking about cruising.  Talking and doing, of course are two different things.  Everything will get worked out...eventually.  Until then, talking about cruising is all we've got.

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

Good point.  I recall that a few ships were turned away by other  countries and it was the USA who allowed the international passengers to eventually disembark and return home. Also, keep in mind that none of these big cruise lines are registered in the USA and therefore the USA gets no tax revenue from them. Yes, the locals have tourism in the hotels and restaurants.  We all know that, but the cruise lines seem to register in third world and/or corrupt countries.  

My point goes way beyond cruise ships.  Overdue crew changes from merchant ships are accumulating at the rate of 100,000 each month that countries don't allow crew changes.  

[njhorseman]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While the US has placed some onerous financial hurdles in the way of crew changes, at least they are offering to allow the crew changes to happen.  Most countries have banned crew changes from vessels altogether.

As regards cruise ships, I wouldn't use the term "crew changes" because the only plans the CDC have approved are for crew disembarkation . Until there are procedures in place that allow the embarkation of crew the cruise lines can't complete any cruise changes, they can only disembark crew.

Note: the cruise lines can receive approval for the transfer of crew from one ship to another, but not for embarkation of new crew.

Edited May 11, 2020 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

11 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

They can't get the crew off the ship because the United States won't let them disembark the crew under reasonable terms. Charter flights were all set up and the crew had quarantined for the flights. But the US won't let them off. 

 

The cruise lines are preparing to restart NCL Plans

 

1 hour ago, jingle5616 said:

Or, NCL is to dollar conscious to pay to get their crews home.

Not true. Both NCL and other cruise lines have received permission from the CDC for the repatriation of crew under the CDC's new guidelines. It may just be taking a bit of time to arrange the logistics for all of this to be carried out.

 

The CDC publishes a list that is updated daily of approved crew disembarkation detailing which ships will be repatriating crew to which countries. The first approval was granted April 23, the same day the CDC published its new crew disembarkation approval process. Here's the new attestation form:  https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Attestation-for-Non-Commercial-Travel-Pre-Approval-of-NSO-Response-Plan_042320_final_fillable-p.pdf

 

 

 You can find the list of approvals here:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/cruise-ship-member-disembarkations.html

Edited May 11, 2020 by njhorseman

[Markanddonna]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

My point goes way beyond cruise ships.  Overdue crew changes from merchant ships are accumulating at the rate of 100,000 each month that countries don't allow crew changes.  

I appreciate this information.  It should teach us that it won't be easy to reassemble a competent crew when the companies do receive the go ahead.  Although jobs are probably scarce in second and third world countries, I wonder how many of the experienced crew are willing to go back to live onboard a cruise ship.  I also wonder if the first passengers onboard will be realistic in their expectations.  I'm sort of doubting that.

 

[njkate]

2 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Situation with the crew, global pandemic, port closures, quarantine, safety measures, cruising's new normal, refund status, FCC usage, ...none of it will stop me from talking about cruising.  Talking and doing, of course are two different things.  Everything will get worked out...eventually.  Until then, talking about cruising is all we've got.

Exactly!! People should be able to dream without getting chastised for it

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

As regards cruise ships, I wouldn't use the term "crew changes" because the only plans the CDC have approved are for crew disembarkation . Until there are procedures in place that allow the embarkation of crew the cruise lines can't complete any cruise changes, they can only disembark crew.

Note: the cruise lines can receive approval for the transfer of crew from one ship to another, but not for embarkation of new crew.

Actually, this is not correct.  In the original "no sail order", the CDC defined "embarking crew" as one of the operations that could be accomplished if the defined criteria was met.  So, for cruise ship crew, they would have to join using charter flights, and private ground transportation, but of course, there are other travel restrictions placed on travel from many of the crews' home countries.

 

However, with no operations for the ships, there is little need to embark crew, except for the technical crew who will remain onboard during lay up.

Edited May 11, 2020 by chengkp75

[njhorseman]

38 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, this is not correct.  In the original "no sail order", the CDC defined "embarking crew" as one of the operations that could be accomplished if the defined criteria was met.  So, for cruise ship crew, they would have to join using charter flights, and private ground transportation, but of course, there are other travel restrictions placed on travel from many of the crews' home countries.

 

However, with no operations for the ships, there is little need to embark crew, except for the technical crew who will remain onboard during lay up.

I can find no evidence that there were at any time approved plans in place for embarking new crew since the original No Sail Order was implemented in March. What you're citing appears to be the requirements for disembarking crew. Do you have a reference ? If so I will stand corrected. For that matter even if there were approved plans then, the CDC can still require revisions prior to lift the current No Sail Order.

 

Under the new order:

"Consequently, it remains ordered:

...3. Cruise ship operators shall not embark any new passengers or crew, except as approved by USCG, or other Federal authorities as appropriate, in consultation with HHS/CDC personnel."

 

As there are apparently no current approved plans for the embarkation of either passengers and crew they can't be embarked. The only approved plans currently in place are for disembarkation of passengers ( which has already been completed) and crew...which will take place as soon as the charter flights and other logistical arrangements have been completed. 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by njhorseman

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I can find no evidence that there were at any time approved plans in place for embarking new crew since the original No Sail Order was implemented in March. What you're citing appears to be the requirements for disembarking crew. Do you have a reference ? If so I will stand corrected. For that matter even if there were approved plans then, the CDC can still require revisions prior to lift the current No Sail Order.

 

Under the new order:

"Consequently, it remains ordered:

...3. Cruise ship operators shall not embark any new passengers or crew, except as approved by USCG, or other Federal authorities as appropriate, in consultation with HHS/CDC personnel."

 

As there are apparently no current approved plans for the embarkation of either passengers and crew they can't be embarked. The only approved plans currently in place are for disembarkation of passengers ( which has already been completed) and crew...which will take place as soon as the charter flights and other logistical arrangements have been completed. 

 

You are correct that the plans have not been submitted or approved, but the CDC would allow crew to embark if an acceptable plan were presented.  This is in stark contrast to most ports around the world that blanket do not allow crew changes at all.

[mking8288]

If and when the repatriated crews get home, hopefully they won't need to go thru another 14 days of "stay-home" order or notice, like what they are doing in Singapore's Changi Int'l Airport - 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/few-flights-but-checks-stepped-up-for-returnees

 

This morning, most of us have the comfort and luxury of doing what we want, what we need and choice of following the rules or not, freedom is priceless - reading the news about death at sea.  Updated info, numbers & where some of the almost repatriated ships and their crews are in the article. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nightmare-sea-ends-death-cruise-095851490.html

 

As always, thank you to the Chief for being a voice ... including the merchant ship crews.  Moving forward, bringing onboard for a fresh crew change to keep these vessels running isn't going to be as easy as it has been, I think. 

 

[chengkp75]

50 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

If and when the repatriated crews get home, hopefully they won't need to go thru another 14 days of "stay-home" order or notice, like what they are doing in Singapore's Changi Int'l Airport - 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/few-flights-but-checks-stepped-up-for-returnees

 

This morning, most of us have the comfort and luxury of doing what we want, what we need and choice of following the rules or not, freedom is priceless - reading the news about death at sea.  Updated info, numbers & where some of the almost repatriated ships and their crews are in the article. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nightmare-sea-ends-death-cruise-095851490.html

 

As always, thank you to the Chief for being a voice ... including the merchant ship crews.  Moving forward, bringing onboard for a fresh crew change to keep these vessels running isn't going to be as easy as it has been, I think. 

 

Well, it may be just as expensive, but if the disembark plan is acceptable, then the embark plan should be acceptable, at least for travel, and then perhaps some additional quarantine for the arriving crew onboard.  Given a slow start up, they may institute a form of what the CDC wanted for operations to resume, a "quarantine" ship, so that all arriving crew quarantine on this ship for 14 days, then get moved to their permanent ships, rinse and repeat, with groups arriving maybe every 10-14 days, and color coded masks for each group so the "caretaker crew" know when a group is coming out of quarantine and can be moved.  This is much like what we are doing on our ship, we have the "general population" (taking a prison term) who don't have any restrictions as to eating in mess halls or wearing masks, who have been onboard at least 14 days without symptoms, and then each arriving crew must distance themselves at all times during work, wear masks outside their cabins, eat in their cabins, etc, for 14 days before joining "gen pop".

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/nightmare-at-sea-ends-in-death-for-some-cruise-ship-workers

The cruise line execs continue failing.

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/nightmare-at-sea-ends-in-death-for-some-cruise-ship-workers

The cruise line execs continue failing.

Give it a rest, already.  This is not limited to cruise ships, and for the most part is not the fault of the cruise line executives, as cruise lines have spent quite a lot of money sailing their ships to crews' home countries, and yet the home country still does not allow them to leave the ship, as noted in your link.  And, as I will repeat every time you bring this up, while the numbers of cruise ship crew "stranded" on their ships is decreasing as ships and charter planes are used to take them home, the number of other merchant mariners who don't have the benefit of the media spotlight, increases at a rate of 100,000 every month.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Your level of concern about the ongoing suicides is .... well, pretty much as we'd expect.

 

When I want your opinion, I'll call. Sit by the phone tonite - if it doesn't ring, that'll be me.

Edited May 12, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[graphicguy]

Any time a suicide happens, I feel badly for the person who committed the suicide, but also understand there was something not wired quite right in their brains for them to do what they did.  You can make a correlation to anyone who is mentally disturbed enough to commit suicide.  Because it is a crew member of a cruise line is irrelevant.  Suicides happen in all age groups, all walks of life, all professions.

 

Let's not make a broad brush stroke that cruise crew members are more likely to commit suicide as that's simply untrue.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Your level of concern about the ongoing suicides is .... well, pretty much as we'd expect.

 

When I want your opinion, I'll call. Sit by the phone tonite - if it doesn't ring, that'll be me.

Let's be honest, your level of concern for the suicides is bogus, it could be anything that paints the cruise lines as greedy and uncaring.  And, glad to know that you value your opinion as the only one that counts.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

53 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's be honest, your level of concern for the suicides is bogus, it could be anything that paints the cruise lines as greedy and uncaring.  And, glad to know that you value your opinion as the only one that counts.

Blame the cruise executives for the paint job. They chose the colors.
 

And you're wrong yet again; I value many opinions. But not yours.

Edited May 12, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[seaman11]

having enough crew is the least of the worries, many workers will be able to fly in and work , once the ports and airports are fully operational. As the other poster said, they will only be running a few ships the first month and at limited pax capacity , they will not need full crews onboard. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Any time a suicide happens, I feel badly for the person who committed the suicide, but also understand there was something not wired quite right in their brains for them to do what they did.  You can make a correlation to anyone who is mentally disturbed enough to commit suicide.  Because it is a crew member of a cruise line is irrelevant.  Suicides happen in all age groups, all walks of life, all professions.

 

Let's not make a broad brush stroke that cruise crew members are more likely to commit suicide as that's simply untrue.

Graphicguy -

     Let's be sure you're following the context: Three crew suicides in less than a week.
     All while stranded on cruise ships.
     
     https://crew-center.com/deaths
 

     And yes, while some people on CC would duck, dodge and obfuscate on behalf of the cruise lines, I'll tell you the executives hold an awful lot of the culpability for this mess. They also get most of the blame for the list of crew COVID-19 deaths that you'll also find on that site.