Please refrain from doing chargebacks

[not-enough-cruising]

10 minutes ago, Cel_cruise said:

Disputes per my credit card company state that I should work with the vender first.  Royal has sent many emails stating they are working on my refunds and credits.   If you had a 6 month emergency fund which should generally be a pre-Req for going on a luxury vacation - you can wait another month for your $1300 payment in an unprecedented pandemic when there are thousands of payments that need to be made!! 
 

#We are all in this together!   
 

 

If we are all in this together why don’t you send them $1300? 
People need to keep their noses out of others financial business. If Royal has their finances in order like you claim all of us should have, then they could make the refunds in a timely manner, but they aren’t. 
My rule of thumb on this has been 60 days then I call AMEX. Have done it once and will be doing it again in about 12 days. 

[davekathy]

30 minutes ago, davekathy said:

We always book directly with the cruise line. Whether on the ship or not.  Then I use the 60 day timer to see if there is a TA that is motivated to add to our booking. If the TAs offer isn't worth it, I keep our booking with the cruise line. I do all the homework.  Whether it's the cruise lines agent or an independent agent I provide them with all the specifics and all they have to do is book it. 

90 day timer not 60 day timer. 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

5 minutes ago, davekathy said:

90 day timer not 60 day timer. 

 

Has that changed recently? It's been 60 days from date of booking to transfer a reservation to a TA. 

[davekathy]

5 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Has that changed recently? It's been 60 days from date of booking to transfer a reservation to a TA. 

No it hasn't changed. That's what I get for second guessing myself. In my defense It's been almost a year since the last time I transferred a booking. 🤣 Thanks for looking out for me. 🍷

Edited May 17, 2020 by davekathy

[cured]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

It's been documented many times across the CC boards that most use a travel agent only for the extra perks. Some claim that the travel agent will go to bat for you but I have read many examples of how that doesn't happen. Like you I enjoy finding the bargains and monitoring the price drops and get the adjustments without involving a middle man. However, I do believe that the TA's are probably more busy now with all of the cancellations and moving cruises around so I don't believe they should be losing commision just because someone does a chargeback. Chargebacks are for fraudulent transactions. I wonder if after the investigation and it's clear that the transaction isn't fraudulent and the bank sides with the cruise line, if the card gets charged again and the passenger has to wait again for the original refund? 

I absolutely agree the TAs with existing bookings should be paid for the work already completed.  

[mafig]

2 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

.  I get it...you want your money, but so do I AND I don't want to give it back or be on the hook for your cruise that you got refunded for.  

 

Do you own your own agency?

I hope so.

I hope your boss or the owner of your LARGE agency doesn't read this.  

 

Pathetic....

[suzyluvs2cruise]

Travel agent commissions are being protected for cancelled cruises by many cruise lines. Land based travel may be different. 

 

Travel Agent Commission Protected

[reallyitsmema]

4 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Travel agent commissions are being protected for cancelled cruises by many cruise lines. Land based travel may be different. 

 

Travel Agent Commission Protected

 

That is what I have seen all along too.  The chargebacks seem to be changing that but that is not the consumers fault, it is the cruise line's fault since they are processing things so slowly in their attempt to manage their cash flow.

[DebG53]

On 5/16/2020 at 1:43 PM, oceanlovinmama said:

Cruiselines have been doing the best they can.  They didn’t realize that they would be shut down for so long and the amount of refunds requested.  Most of their employees are working from home and because of the levels of security that need to be in place to deal with credit cards, most cruise lines have a skeleton crew.  Now with the country opening back up that will change.  BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

What exactly do agents have to pay back if they don't get paid until AFTER travel happens? If travel never happened,  you never got paid,  therefore you have nothing to repay. 

[reallyitsmema]

1 hour ago, Cel_cruise said:

Disputes per my credit card company state that I should work with the vender first.  Royal has sent many emails stating they are working on my refunds and credits.   If you had a 6 month emergency fund which should generally be a pre-Req for going on a luxury vacation - you can wait another month for your $1300 payment in an unprecedented pandemic when there are thousands of payments that need to be made!! 
 

#We are all in this together!   
 

 

 

Royal has sent us NO EMAILS concerning our refund.  Just because you might be getting emails does not mean others are too.

 

As far as your financial status, advice and pre-req for a vacation, that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.  

 

You can choose to allow the world into your house, even though you are at a stay at home order until the end of May, but many of us chose not to have all of us in this together in our houses because we are social distancing.  My contractor can start his work when it is safe for both him and my family.  My hairdresser does not have to come to my house and expose me an my family to all the germs of her other clients as she goes against the state rules of your state.  I can clean my own house and also take care of those who usually do.

 

Spin it how you want, but be very aware of the numbers that are just south of you in Massachusetts, where two of the three worse counties for COVID-19 are direct below your border.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

It's been documented many times across the CC boards that most use a travel agent only for the extra perks. Some claim that the travel agent will go to bat for you but I have read many examples of how that doesn't happen. Like you I enjoy finding the bargains and monitoring the price drops and get the adjustments without involving a middle man. However, I do believe that the TA's are probably more busy now with all of the cancellations and moving cruises around so I don't believe they should be losing commision just because someone does a chargeback. Chargebacks are for fraudulent transactions. I wonder if after the investigation and it's clear that the transaction isn't fraudulent and the bank sides with the cruise line, if the card gets charged again and the passenger has to wait again for the original refund? 

I just wanna say, our NEW TA got us a really super deal!!!

[Computer Nerd]

3 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

Seriously?  You do not know me and have no idea who I am.  I can tell you that most of my business is from referrals because I care about my clients and pride myself on my customer service.  I have worked more, for not a penny, in these past 2 month because of all the refunds, FCC's and lift and shifts, than I did before.  I'm 6th in my company countrywide in sales and have been a Million + sales rep for the past 2 years and was on my way to the best year ever when this hit.  All I was saying is to THINK about it IF you used a TA.  I get it...you want your money, but so do I AND I don't want to give it back or be on the hook for your cruise that you got refunded for.  It happens.  It happened this week to a rep with a land supplier.  Now they are coming after her for the deposit of $750.  Maybe in this case, where the cruises were actually cancelled, they wouldn't come after us for payment BUT they can...we act as a representative of you when we pay the supplier.  The supplier takes your credit card from me in good faith.   I have 2 cruises cancelled as well.  I get it.. but all I was asking was to have some patience for the cruise lines.  I want my clients to get their money in a timely fashion, but I do not want to have to give money back, IF I received my commission, and I do not want to be held accountable for the cost of your cruise, when you were refunded your money.

Sounds like a risk you knew about when you took the job.

[Computer Nerd]

1 hour ago, Cel_cruise said:

#We are all in this together!   
 

 

 

Please stop saying this.

 

We Are Not!!!

[rustycruzr]

On 5/16/2020 at 1:43 PM, oceanlovinmama said:

We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

 

And many cruisers have lost jobs and therefore have no income for the past two months...many of them won't work again, and if they do work, will take jobs making considerably less. With your post, everything is about you, you, and you. Please think about your customer!

 

Here's a suggestion: rather than post here asking us not to do a charge back to the cruise companies, you and other travel agents should get on the phone with the cruise companies and encourage them to do what is necessary to get everyone their refunds within the next 7 days. This action would put the refund issue behind them and allow them to prepare for the time when cruising will return. 

 

Doing that will be a lot more useful than bellyaching about how those of us doing charge backs are making life difficult for the likes of you.

 

And BTW, yes I'm doing a charge back...and have no regrets whatsoever about it.

[kastke]

3 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

..... I have worked more, for not a penny, in these past 2 month because of all the refunds, FCC's and lift and shifts, than I did before.... 

Actually, since the cruise line is protecting your commission, you are not working “for not a penny”.  You are just doing more work to earn your money. 
 

I was a salaried employee before I retired. My pay was the same, whether I worked 40 hours or 60 hours. Too many of those 60 hour weeks might have made it seem like I was working for nothing, but I was not. No different for sales reps/travel agents. Some commissions are easily earned, some you have to work your tail end off to earn. 

[Charles4515]

Chargebacks are for fraudulent transactions. I wonder if after the investigation and it's clear that the transaction isn't fraudulent and the bank sides with the cruise line, if the card gets charged again and the passenger has to wait again for the original refund? 

I have disputed a few charges because I did not receive what I was sold. I always tried to work with the vendor first. The last one was a mattress company that delivered the wrong size frame ($125) with a $5000 mattress that I bought for my mother and they would not make good. All we wanted was the right size frame. A run around they gave us on something easy to fix. Disputed the charge and they didn’t even respond to the credit card company. So we ended up with the $5000 and the mattress.......As I said only a few disputed transactions but not a single one did the seller respond to the credit card company. We got the charge backs by default even when all we wanted was the sellers to make good. But they didn’t care about making good. They figure most people won’t bother to dispute the charges so they will come out ahead. That I believe is what is happening with the cruise lines.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[John&LaLa]

17 hours ago, bbinz said:

Doesn’t sound like she’s much of a TA anyway. 

 

Lots of amateurs on here and on FB.😉

 

Most just do it to get access to Cruising Power.

It's ridiculous. 😇

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, deepcman said:

I was going to write the same thing and if they did offer perks, TA's would go the way of the dodo bird or Stockbrokers. 

 

That could be said for any commission based sales transaction

[livingonthebeach]

5 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

 I have 2 cruises cancelled as well.  I get it.. but all I was asking was to have some patience for the cruise lines.  I want my clients to get their money in a timely fashion, but I do not want to have to give money back, IF I received my commission, and I do not want to be held accountable for the cost of your cruise, when you were refunded your money.

 

It's impressive how much you cruise.  Out of curiosity, how do you service your clients when you are cruising?  Are you always on WIFI and working onboard or do you have a backup person on land you share commissions with?  I don't mean to pry - just curious how good communications and technology are on a ship on a different continent and if it is even doable or do you rely on a sales partner or office staff person? 

Edited May 17, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[xDisconnections]

4 hours ago, cured said:

Just another reason to file away to never use a TA. Too many things to worry about. Today's world has made it far too easy to handle everything yourself with a minimum of time and effort, especially if you have control issues like I do.  The extra credits you sometimes get are just not worth it to me.  

 

There are good ones out there as evidenced by a certain beach loving poster here, but knowing my luck, I would get the TA who made my booking and then never be available again.

 

Besides, self-monitoring the booking and finding deals is half the fun of the upcoming cruise . You just have to come here to find the latest and greatest the quickest, like the ability to lift and shift new bookings 🙂 

 

4 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

Always thought it was dumb of cruise lines not to offer a discount or percs to those who book direct.  If they did wonder how many would continue to use a TA.

Honestly, I’m surprised travel agencies are still a thing. It isn’t difficult to book or manage your own travel.

[Sunshine3601]

16 hours ago, OHCruisinDad said:

 

Commissions are paid after the cruise sails.  As part of the Cruise with Confidence program Royal is protecting the TA commission for cruises they cancel.  This means an agent will get paid by the cruise line for a cruise they booked but the cruise line canceled.  

I have worked a commission only job for 20+ years and if a client does not proceed with the transaction for whatever reason I dont get paid.  So consider yourself very lucky that rcl is protecting your commissions with the cwc program.  

There are millions of people with unemployed right now.  Lots of them  Not able to get unemployment for various reasons.  Everyone is entitled to the refund option  they selected.  I am fortunate that all of my refunds to date have been processed within 2 to 3 weeks but there are still many cruisers waiting for their refund since March.  They can do whatever it takes to get their money back.  For you to ask people not to do chargebacks so you dont have to pay back a commission that in most businesses you wouldn't even be getting right now is very selfish.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sunshine3601

[hapster85]

BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.

I'm totally confused by "the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment". Makes no sense at all. Booked direct, or via agent, fare charges have always been in the name of the cruise line, not the agent. So how could the cruise line possibly demand that payment back from the agent?

Regardless, I understand you wanting to protect your commission, but this isn't the way to do it. Your beef is with the cruise lines, not your customers. Probably not the best time to alienate those customers either. Just a thought.

[xDisconnections]

4 hours ago, Cel_cruise said:

Disputes per my credit card company state that I should work with the vender first.  Royal has sent many emails stating they are working on my refunds and credits.   If you had a 6 month emergency fund which should generally be a pre-Req for going on a luxury vacation - you can wait another month for your $1300 payment in an unprecedented pandemic when there are thousands of payments that need to be made!! 
 

#We are all in this together!   
 

 

Just because waiting an extra month is an option doesn’t mean it should. Many have already waited their unusually long quoted wait periods in good faith to be met without resolution. When pressing the cruise line, they are frustrated because there aren’t any answers except to wait another unacceptably long period.

The cruise line does not have your best interest in mind — they have theirs. The operating cash flow isn’t available to provide timely refunds to all who requested it because they still have expenses (labor, provisions, shoreside utilities, etc.). They are borrowing money from many places, have ships placed as collateral and trying to survive and remain solvent all while taking advantage of an interest free loan through payments for cruises that will not happen (looking at you, June sailings) or future deposits. Many of these people will be disappointed when their fate of being thrown into the refund pool comes forward.

 

Although many on Cruise Critic believe the cruise lines to be amazing companies and defend them as if it were their kids, the general public doesn’t care and right now, a lot are hoping the industry disappears. Although I’d hate to judge a company during an unprecedented pandemic, they do need to react better and work faster towards resolutions. When I was told 60 days on top of the 45 I waited, my bank and I agreed contacting them was the best option for my booking. If these refunds were being processed by bots as Laly Rodriguez stated, it would be automated and happen much quicker by technology without requiring the use of labor or man hours.

 

PS- Royal hasn’t sent me any emails regarding any unexpected delays. Although I can wait as your post suggests, it is not my intention to give them an unlimited timeframe like Princess (moving their quotes to “we don’t know”) is requesting. The cruise lines need to be held accountable and when operating from US homeports, similar protections to the airline industry should be in place by the DOT.

Edited May 17, 2020 by xDisconnections

[drakes2]

5 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Some claim that the travel agent will go to bat for you but I have read many examples of how that doesn't happen. Like you I enjoy finding the bargains and monitoring the price drops and get the adjustments without involving a middle man.

I always smile to myself when I hear statements like my TA will fight for me. No the only one doing the fighting will be yourself.  I too enjoy finding and monitoring price drops and a quick call to the cruiseline gets it resolved everytime. 

[livingonthebeach]

14 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

I always smile to myself when I hear statements like my TA will fight for me. No the only one doing the fighting will be yourself.  I too enjoy finding and monitoring price drops and a quick call to the cruiseline gets it resolved everytime. 

 

So true.  I've gone direct and also with a TA.  While you do get some extra perks with a TA, I found I can not always get a hold of the TA when I need to.  Once you've signed up with a TA the cruise line will simply ignore you -- not good if you have a time sensitive issue.  Depending on the issue, the extra OBC is sometimes not worth giving up your direct communication with the cruise line.  Just my experience.