Please refrain from doing chargebacks

[jknc]

Repost:

 

Its how deceitful and painfully slow cruise lines have been to refund that’s causing people to get so angry.

 

 

[Iamcruzin]

6 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

Cruiselines have been doing the best they can.  They didn’t realize that they would be shut down for so long and the amount of refunds requested.  Most of their employees are working from home and because of the levels of security that need to be in place to deal with credit cards, most cruise lines have a skeleton crew.  Now with the country opening back up that will change.  BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

Did you post this on the "Are we the only ones who haven't received a refund thread"?   I think that was the thread that everyone was suggesting to do chargebacks.  I never thought that was a good idea because it wasn't a fraudulent purchase and the bank shouldn't have to waste time processing it plus it ties up another Royal Caribbean person who has to address it.

[Mapleleafforever]

Fun to read......

[A&L_Ont]

I think I want to do a chargeback just to aggravate the OP.    

[Computer Nerd]

I didn't think TAs were allowed to post that they are a TA here on CC? That's why we can't share PVP information on the Carnival board.

[davekathy]

8 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

I didn't think TAs were allowed to post that they are a TA here on CC? That's why we can't share PVP information on the Carnival board.

Nothing in the CC guidelines not allowing a TA to say they are a TA or even provide/share/information.  The TA can't provide their business name or email. No soliciting or advertising. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by davekathy

[reallyitsmema]

11 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

I didn't think TAs were allowed to post that they are a TA here on CC? That's why we can't share PVP information on the Carnival board.

 

A TA can say they are a TA, they aren't supposed to have any contact information, like their email, in their signature or profile.

[Sunshine3601]

7 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

  BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  

I'm confused. If you only get paid your commission after we cruise then why would have to pay back money on cancelled cruises?  

[Jimbo]

2 hours ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

The bogus (your words) cruises for June, July and some in August that cruisers recently purchased require full payment....and not just a deposit. More cash coming in for RCI. Many who booked those dates did so at lower rates to then "Life & Shift" the booking to next year. Win-win for RCI. 

Not true booked a August 23 2020 cruise and only paid deposit, then lift and shifted it to September 23 2021,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,final payment date was also changed until 2021.

[CruisingHogFan]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

I think I want to do a chargeback just to aggravate the OP.    

Doesn’t sound like she’s much of a TA anyway. 

[The_Big_M]

How sad that the OP's only real justification for this is she wants people to think of TAs as a charity that a consumer needs to make a donation for.

 

If no purchase was completed, then it is reasonable for the consumer to get their money back. The TA is not entitled to it, except as a benevolent gesture from the cruise operators. That's not something she should be trying to guilt consumers about.

[mugtech]

9 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

So you will not be paid for the service you did not provide, means the cruise line will have more money for refunds.  Glad I don't use a TA.

[mugtech]

2 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I'm confused. If you only get paid your commission after we cruise then why would have to pay back money on cancelled cruises?  

Could be they get paid when the cruise was scheduled to travel, like the way NCL passengers are getting their loyalty points after the cruise was scheduled to travel but was cancelled by NCL.  Perhaps the TA spends the commissions before they are actually earned, like the way the cruise lines spend deposits and other liabilities before the service is provided. 

[OHCruisinDad]

3 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I'm confused. If you only get paid your commission after we cruise then why would have to pay back money on cancelled cruises?  

 

Commissions are paid after the cruise sails.  As part of the Cruise with Confidence program Royal is protecting the TA commission for cruises they cancel.  This means an agent will get paid by the cruise line for a cruise they booked but the cruise line canceled.  The commission will be on the part of the fare paid up to the cancellation date.

 

Refunds are processed based on the payment purpose.  There is separate accounting for cruise fares, cruise planner purchases and taxes/port fees.  When you cancel a cruise it will remain in your cruse history until all components of the total fare are processed for refunds or FCC's.

 

Refunds used to occur when cruises were canceled before final payment, with penalties applied for cancellations after final payment date.  Now that you can cancel up to 48 hours before sailing and with all the uncertainty, you have an accounting group that may have handled a couple of hundred cancellations/refunds in a week now having to deal with a tsunami of thousands of cancellations per week.  In addition, much staff is working remotely which further aggravates and slows down the process. 

 

Put yourself in their shoes .  You normally pay 3 or 4 utility bills each month.  Suddenly you have to pay the utility bills for your entire town of 5,000 or 10,000.  How quickly could you do it?  Just making a point that things are not normal right now.  Processing a credit card charge back will most likely muddy the water even more and further slow down the refund process.  

[deepcman]

7 hours ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

A TA can say they are a TA, they aren't supposed to have any contact information, like their email, in their signature or profile.

In this case I wish the OP had contact information. Selfish people like this shouldn't be in business. She's being blasted on all boards where she posted the same rant. Fun reading. 

[soloadventurer]

17 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

Cruiselines have been doing the best they can.  They didn’t realize that they would be shut down for so long and the amount of refunds requested.  Most of their employees are working from home and because of the levels of security that need to be in place to deal with credit cards, most cruise lines have a skeleton crew.  Now with the country opening back up that will change.  BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

 

Simple solution you speak to Royal top brass and ask them to speed up refunds that would solve the problem of charge backs.

 

 

[Biker19]

From the RCCL SEC filing last week:

 

We also have agreements with two credit card processors that transact advance customer ticket deposits and onboard transactions related to our cruise voyages. These agreements allow the credit card processors to require under certain circumstances, including the existence of a material adverse change, excessive chargebacks and other triggering events, that we maintain a reserve which could be satisfied by posting collateral. The maximum reserve requirement under the agreements with the credit card processors is in aggregate $300 million. As of May 12, 2020, we were not required to post collateral under these agreements.

[Cel_cruise]

13 hours ago, skywonder said:

Give me a break! Sorry but this is a selfish post and request!

Well - I am going to go out on a limb here and defend the OP.  My cruise was cancelled in March for a sailing in April.  In the year leading up to this - my travel agent helped me numerous times with booking or adjustments or questions the past year.  They are not responsible for our cancelled cruise and Royal IS doing the right thing by paying them their commissions which I think is very important.    Infact - I firmly believe this is why my agent keeps helping me when we had trouble with our FCC amount and such. 
 

OP - Thank you for reminding everyone of the relationship between a charge back action and travel agent pay.   Ironically - In a sense - a chargeback actually helps Royals bottom line by saving that TA payment Vs their current plan.   
 

The COVID Motto is “We are All In This Together”.   That means we need to act as one and help the greater good of people get by.  For those of you demanding your refunds via chargebacks and feeling that your agents should not get paid, that the credit card company reps and cruise line reps should stop working on EVERYONES refund and focus solely on yours may be just as selfish as what you are claiming the OP is doing. 
 

I understand there *may* be some people on this board living paycheck to paycheck. But I believe most that cruise are more financially stable than that - they have 6 month emergency funds, they have mortgages (that could be deferred for 3 months penalty free right now), if they are out of work, *many* are eligible for unemployment or stimulus payments, etc.    People just trying to pad your bank account with a refund on your non-refundable cruise fare need to just be patient.    if you really can’t make ends meet - speak to your bank and speak to your TA and have them call Royal on your behalf and see what they can do, and hopefully the next time you book a cruise or expensive family trip you remember to have that emergency fund in place first.  We are on month 2 of 6...not month 6 of 6.
 

Everyone in the world is impacted by COVID.   Everyone in the world needs to be more patient, stop panicking, and work together on solutions to get this WORLD moving again.
 

I firmly believe that if folks followed the rules for wearing masks, washing hands frequently and social distancing - many of us would be back to experiencing our new normal now.   The fact that in the USA, we have people getting shot for asking that these rules be followed is NOT helping  anyone get back to the new normal.   The scientific data suggests that those are incredibly powerful tools to stopping the spread of the virus.    I also firmly believe that in many areas - particularly mine - are not able to progress to these later phases of ‘new normal’ because people are too selfish and impatient to follow these protocols.  DO THE RIGHT THING!  Wear the freakin mask, respect the distance and don’t fight about it!   The news stories I have read and things I have witnessed while shopping or doing food pick up about how folks are behaving or careless is what’s going to get us in trouble.   This week I had several contractors working at my house - Plumbers, roofers, pool guys, lawn guys, basketball court sales reps, cleaning ladies, a hair stylist and cleaning ladies.   The amount of careless decisions made by some of them were absurd!      I cannot even begin to explain how much I used in cleaning products after the plumber was here - they even went to shoot hoops with my kids rack of basketballs!!!   I’m convinced that this type of thoughtless behavior  is a huge part of the spread and delaying our opening.    I hope that they and everyone around them can stay healthy!!   Gotta give props to the pool guys, hair dresser and cleaning crew though - they all used great care to keep everyone COVID-safe.  
 

I hope you (and I) all get our refunds and FCCs processed soon.  It’s truly and unprecedented time.  I’m sure that if your credit card information was handled improperly you would be upset about that too so it has to be handled by the right crew with the right encryption and tools.  Royal has created plenty of liquidity over the past few months to pay you back (your non-refundable Payment’s) so be patient and don’t screw your agent out of their hard work unless you REALLY need that money ASAP. 

[bouhunter]

29 minutes ago, Cel_cruise said:

Well - I am going to go out on a limb here and defend the OP.  My cruise was cancelled in March for a sailing in April.  In the year leading up to this - my travel agent helped me numerous times with booking or adjustments or questions the past year.  They are not responsible for our cancelled cruise and Royal IS doing the right thing by paying them their commissions which I think is very important.    Infact - I firmly believe this is why my agent keeps helping me when we had trouble with our FCC amount and such. 
 

OP - Thank you for reminding everyone of the relationship between a charge back action and travel agent pay.   Ironically - In a sense - a chargeback actually helps Royals bottom line by saving that TA payment Vs their current plan.   
 

The COVID Motto is “We are All In This Together”.   That means we need to act as one and help the greater good of people get by.  For those of you demanding your refunds via chargebacks and feeling that your agents should not get paid, that the credit card company reps and cruise line reps should stop working on EVERYONES refund and focus solely on yours may be just as selfish as what you are claiming the OP is doing. 
 

I understand there *may* be some people on this board living paycheck to paycheck. But I believe most that cruise are more financially stable than that - they have 6 month emergency funds, they have mortgages (that could be deferred for 3 months penalty free right now), if they are out of work, *many* are eligible for unemployment or stimulus payments, etc.    People just trying to pad your bank account with a refund on your non-refundable cruise fare need to just be patient.    if you really can’t make ends meet - speak to your bank and speak to your TA and have them call Royal on your behalf and see what they can do, and hopefully the next time you book a cruise or expensive family trip you remember to have that emergency fund in place first.  We are on month 2 of 6...not month 6 of 6.
 

Everyone in the world is impacted by COVID.   Everyone in the world needs to be more patient, stop panicking, and work together on solutions to get this WORLD moving again.
 

I firmly believe that if folks followed the rules for wearing masks, washing hands frequently and social distancing - many of us would be back to experiencing our new normal now.   The fact that in the USA, we have people getting shot for asking that these rules be followed is NOT helping  anyone get back to the new normal.   The scientific data suggests that those are incredibly powerful tools to stopping the spread of the virus.    I also firmly believe that in many areas - particularly mine - are not able to progress to these later phases of ‘new normal’ because people are too selfish and impatient to follow these protocols.  DO THE RIGHT THING!  Wear the freakin mask, respect the distance and don’t fight about it!   The news stories I have read and things I have witnessed while shopping or doing food pick up about how folks are behaving or careless is what’s going to get us in trouble.   This week I had several contractors working at my house - Plumbers, roofers, pool guys, lawn guys, basketball court sales reps, cleaning ladies, a hair stylist and cleaning ladies.   The amount of careless decisions made by some of them were absurd!      I cannot even begin to explain how much I used in cleaning products after the plumber was here - they even went to shoot hoops with my kids rack of basketballs!!!   I’m convinced that this type of thoughtless behavior  is a huge part of the spread and delaying our opening.    I hope that they and everyone around them can stay healthy!!   Gotta give props to the pool guys, hair dresser and cleaning crew though - they all used great care to keep everyone COVID-safe.  
 

I hope you (and I) all get our refunds and FCCs processed soon.  It’s truly and unprecedented time.  I’m sure that if your credit card information was handled improperly you would be upset about that too so it has to be handled by the right crew with the right encryption and tools.  Royal has created plenty of liquidity over the past few months to pay you back (your non-refundable Payment’s) so be patient and don’t screw your agent out of their hard work unless you REALLY need that money ASAP. 

Trying to spin a refund thread into a long winded lecture on social distancing?  Wow...……….

[Milwaukee Eight]

11 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

I think I want to do a chargeback just to aggravate the OP.    

I had a good chuckle 😇

[ATC cruiser]

1 hour ago, Cel_cruise said:

Plumbers, roofers, pool guys, lawn guys, basketball court sales reps, cleaning ladies, a hair stylist and cleaning ladies.

That’s more contractors than I have at my house in an entire year. 

[Cel_cruise]

34 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

Trying to spin a refund thread into a long winded lecture on social distancing?  Wow...……….

The reason everyone says they want their money back is because of the economy.   For that to return - everyone needs to do their part whether they like it or not.    This is something that every mother and in many cases every parent already knows - sometimes you have to put your own feelings and opinions aside and do what’s right for your kids even if it isn’t what you want.   Now we just have to expand that and suck it up so we can all get back to ‘normal’ and get back to cruising and get back to life without needing refunds!!

[Cel_cruise]

9 minutes ago, ATC cruiser said:

That’s more contractors than I have at my house in an entire year. 

Generally mine too!!! But we are using this forced time at home to take care of lots of neglected things...like the septic tank pumping and roof repairs....can’t control the fact that the hot water heater leaked or that a toilet leak was found...and some projects that were on the horizon that are much easier to do while we are home (basketball court and kitchen remodel).

 

the pool guys, lawn guys and cleaning ladies are regulars though - we would never enjoy any downtime or the nice features of our house otherwise.   Our kids are at the ages where pre-COVID they play multiple sports and needed rides for entire days of shuffling and games and practices...so we are usually out of the house 11-12 hours a day, 6 days a week...and 6-8 hrs on that last 7th day...Trying to get things done while we have this year at home and to help these local contractors out who have had a lot if cancelations. It’s a win-win.

[reallyitsmema]

30 minutes ago, ATC cruiser said:

That’s more contractors than I have at my house in an entire year. 

 

No kidding!  How can one go on and on about social distancing and then invite the whole world into their house to do projects?  I am all for supporting the local businesses and do so daily but no one is coming into my house until these social distancing guidelines allow it.  If we have a plumbing emergency, that is one thing, but my hair can wait!

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, Cel_cruise said:

 This week I had several contractors working at my house - Plumbers, roofers, pool guys, lawn guys, basketball court sales reps, cleaning ladies, a hair stylist and cleaning ladies.   

You're funny!  You lecture everyone about social distancing but yet you have a hair stylist and cleaning ladies in your home.    Where I live salons remain closed and probably wont be open til later this summer and hair or nail girls are Not allowed to come to your house.  Did you break the rules set for social distancing to stop the spread?  Your rant is so off topic.....