Social Distancing during Embarkation

[iancal]

Our local health authority has been encouraging seniors to remain isolated as long as possible.   Their warning is simple. 

 

If you are a senior who becomes hospitalized due to covid, statistics/experience indicate your chances of a successful outcome are reduced often significantly) if you have one or more of these issues:

 

-overweight or obese

-a smoker

-have one or more underlying health issues

 

 

My guess is that this should make any senior cruiser think twice about considering a cruise.....social distancing or no social distancing.

[donaldsc]

Simple although harsh solution to the boarding problem.  Everyone has an exact defined time to board.  You could even give the people the opportunity to pick their boarding time when they book their cruise.  If you are not there within 15 minutes of your defined time either early or late, you do not get to board and there is no refund.  The important thing is that the cruise companies need to enforce the rules which they won't have the guts to do.

 

There are a number of companies out there who give you a suggested boarding time but they then end up letting everyone board whenever they want. 

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Simple although harsh solution to the boarding problem.  Everyone has an exact defined time to board.  You could even give the people the opportunity to pick their boarding time when they book their cruise.  If you are not there within 15 minutes of your defined time either early or late, you do not get to board and there is no refund.  The important thing is that the cruise companies need to enforce the rules which they won't have the guts to do.

 

There are a number of companies out there who give you a suggested boarding time but they then end up letting everyone board whenever they want. 

 

DON

Good points.  The cruise lines’ efforts to maintain order in the past were rather pathetic. That history, taken with their to-date lack of information on what they plan to do differently, does not build confidence.  The general bland comments regarding “cleaning” and “safety precautions” do not generate confidence among those who want to THINK about restarting cruising (as opposed to those who seem simply determined to cruise as soon as possible, regardless).

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, donaldsc said:

Simple although harsh solution to the boarding problem.  Everyone has an exact defined time to board.  You could even give the people the opportunity to pick their boarding time when they book their cruise.  If you are not there within 15 minutes of your defined time either early or late, you do not get to board and there is no refund.  The important thing is that the cruise companies need to enforce the rules which they won't have the guts to do.

 

There are a number of companies out there who give you a suggested boarding time but they then end up letting everyone board whenever they want. 

 

DON

So if your plane is a little bit late or traffic is bad from the airport but you still have plenty of time to board but now cannot make your 15 minute window, you do not get to cruise and lose your fare. Yes, just a wonderful solution.

[donaldsc]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

So if your plane is a little bit late or traffic is bad from the airport but you still have plenty of time to board but now cannot make your 15 minute window, you do not get to cruise and lose your fare. Yes, just a wonderful solution.

 

If you plan your airplane arrival that closely, my answer would be that you should have made better travel arrangements.  How many posts have we seen on CC where a person posts that they are arriving at the airport at 1:00 when their ship departs at 4:30  which means that final boarding is 2:30 and they are asking if they  might have a problem.  People need to plan ahead with regard to arrival at their cruise port and many of them do not.  

 

I always arrive 1 day early but I understand that some people feel that they can't do it.  If they insist on arriving on the day of the cruise, they should make flight arrangements that get them early in the morning.

 

DON

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

If you plan your airplane arrival that closely, my answer would be that you should have made better travel arrangements.  How many posts have we seen on CC where a person posts that they are arriving at the airport at 1:00 when their ship departs at 4:30  which means that final boarding is 2:30 and they are asking if they  might have a problem.  People need to plan ahead with regard to arrival at their cruise port and many of them do not.  

 

I always arrive 1 day early but I understand that some people feel that they can't do it.  If they insist on arriving on the day of the cruise, they should make flight arrangements that get them early in the morning.

 

DON

Good for you that you can always get there at least a day early. And I suppose you can also make sure there is not a traffic accident on your way to the port. 

 

And if you miss your 15 minute window by a minute or two due to no fault of your own you do not cruise and lose your fare. Sorry, that just does not work. And of course you now have to get a hotel for however long the cruise is as your next flight is a week or more away. And if the flight home is in a different port, you have even more of a problem. Sorry, that does not work for me.

Edited May 30, 2020 by ontheweb

[SRF]

On 5/29/2020 at 9:04 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

Then that is another thing that is different in Sweden. The number of cases reported here are cases confirmed from laboratories. Not guesses based on different symptoms. 

 

Hmm, you think so?

 

Then how did the report any cases before the tests became readily available?

 

And BTW, European countries were doing more testing before the US did, due to need to have the tests approved.

[SRF]

So, you have a 15 minute time block.

 

If you miss it, you wait until the end of the scheduled boarding, and there is a window for those who missed their slot.

 

So, if you are concerned about being able to arrive on time, pick a late slot, and if you get there early, you can sit in your car and read or play games on your phone.

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

39 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

Hmm, you think so?

 

Then how did the report any cases before the tests became readily available?

 

And BTW, European countries were doing more testing before the US did, due to need to have the tests approved.

 

The Public Health Agency of Sweden say that the reported cases are confirmed cases from laboratories. 

 

You can read more about Corona in Sweden on folkhalsomyndigheten.se.

 

It's a Swedish site but in the upper right corner you can choose In English and get most of the information in English. In Swedish they say that the reported cases are confirmed from laboratories but in English I have only found that they say confirmed cases.   

 

I just looked and saw that WHO say: "reported laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 cases". 

Edited June 1, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[sverigecruiser]

20 minutes ago, SRF said:

So, you have a 15 minute time block.

 

If you miss it, you wait until the end of the scheduled boarding, and there is a window for those who missed their slot.

 

So, if you are concerned about being able to arrive on time, pick a late slot, and if you get there early, you can sit in your car and read or play games on your phone.

 

 

 

The problem with enforced check-in times is that lots of people might wait outside the terminal for their time.

[2wheelin]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:55 AM, SRF said:

 

Wrong, cases are counted based on symptoms also.  Not just testing.

 

Which really inflates the numbers. I have a friend who was in the ER for a broken rib. He responded to the question, “yes, I have trouble breathing because I have a broken rib”. Well, then we have to mark you as Covid. “OK where do I get tested?” You don’t need a test and you can go back to work.

Mind boggling. And this is a well known leading edge medical institution—-going by the rules, letter by letter.

[Gwendy]

Not much social distancing going on in the US at the moment.  Boarding a cruise ship seems a no brainer.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Gwendy said:

Not much social distancing going on in the US at the moment.  Boarding a cruise ship seems a no brainer.

Are you suggesting that those who want to board a cruise ship at the moment - when there is no social distancing - have no brains?  Sounds right.

[RocketMan275]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:42 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

The problem with enforced check-in times is that lots of people might wait outside the terminal for their time.

That is exactly what would happen.

The second thing would be complaints from a multitude of CC posters.

[Roger88]

Just imagine a crew of a thousand people trying to keep those1.5 meters away from each other. Its insane. I think they will make this procedure in several steps. Maybe it will take like whole day to put everyone on board. We dont know. We will see to it but I hope all the limitations will be put down by that time

[SRF]

On 6/1/2020 at 9:42 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

The problem with enforced check-in times is that lots of people might wait outside the terminal for their time.

 

But outside you have good ventilation and you social or greater distance.  Or stay in your vehicle.

 

 

[ldubs]

OK, sorry to be the wet blanket.   If social distancing is still a need during a cruise, then staying separated during embarkation is the least of your worries.   I know there are all kinds of posts about how to achieve a "socially distanced" cruise ship, but in reality I wonder really how practical that will be.  

 

 

 

[ontheweb]

35 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

But outside you have good ventilation and you social or greater distance.  Or stay in your vehicle.

 

 

Since you flew in, how do you stay in your vehicle.?

 

And if it is either beastly hot or possibly raining outside, don't you think everyone will want to get inside and then there is a crowd?

[sverigecruiser]

41 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

But outside you have good ventilation and you social or greater distance.  Or stay in your vehicle.

 

 

 

I agree with you that it's better with a crowd outside than inside. I think that  enforced check-in times is a good idea as long as it's possible to choose a time when booking the cruise.

 

Two problems:

Shall people who miss their time be denied to board?

What happens if the earlier cruise is delayed and everybody will have to embark late?  

[navybankerteacher]

36 minutes ago, ldubs said:

OK, sorry to be the wet blanket.   If social distancing is still a need during a cruise, then staying separated during embarkation is the least of your worries.   I know there are all kinds of posts about how to achieve a "socially distanced" cruise ship, but in reality I wonder really how practical that will be.  

 

 

 

Sometimes a wet blanket is needed - to put out a flare-up of silliness.  If the cruise line cannot come up with a way of ensuring distancing during the boarding process, they sure as hell won’t be able to do it for a week or two on a ship.

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I agree with you that it's better with a crowd outside than inside. I think that  enforced check-in times is a good idea as long as it's possible to choose a time when booking the cruise.

 

Two problems:

Shall people who miss their time be denied to board?

What happens if the earlier cruise is delayed and everybody will have to embark late?  

Obviously everyone cannot choose the same time - so the line will have to assign times;  perhaps after applying a fee for people who want to have some selection -  this is already done with “Faster to the Fun”.

 

If they do not arrive in time to be processed, of course they should be denied boarding.  

 

Lots of times a late-arriving earlier itinerary has resulted in delayed boarding, and delayed departure.

[KnowTheScore]

It's patently obvious imho that it is not possible to maintain social distance measures on a cruise ship and for that matter in many other scenarios.

 

It should therefore be equally obvious that at some point in the future the government and world health authorities are going to have to do a complete U-Turn on the social distancing ethos just as they did with wearing masks.   They blatantly lied to the public about the benefits of wearing masks in public, because they didn't want the public buying PPE needed for the NHS due to the chronic shortages.  When it later suited them, they reversed totally their previous statements and now say that it IS beneficial for the public to wear masks when out and about.   It's a total scandal that this happened as the UK populace should have been instructed to wear masks in public from Day 1.

 

I guarantee that the government will do a similar U-Turn on the issue of keeping 2m from other people.  It's simply not practicable or even possible in certain environments and a cruise ship is one of them.  So cruise lines are simply waiting for the point at which the global authorities do that U-Turn and let things go on as before.

 

Carnival's news release today states:

 

"As a business our operational focus is not "when can we resume sailing?" but is instead "how can we develop a comprehensive restart protocol that will keep everyone on board, our crew and guests, safe and well and still give our guests an amazing holiday?"

"We are working with government and industry bodies at the highest possible level, such as Public Health England (PHE) and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), to review every aspect of a holiday with us and establish a framework of policies and procedures. Our aspiration is to be adopting best practice in managing COVID-19 within the travel industry. 

"Unfortunately, as the world continues to adapt to this global crisis, we have made the decision, difficult as it is, to extend our pause in operations for all sailings up to and including October 15, 2020. We are so sorry for the disappointment this will cause to so many of our guests."

 

 

Patently clear that there is still a long way to go before these fundamental issues are resolved and that the cruise lines are still totally beholden to the world health authoritative powers like the CDC.  They hold the aces, they pull the strings and will be able to make the cruise lines dance to their tune.   The greatest problem cruise lines face is still the protocols they will be mandated to follow if someone on board presents with COVID-19.  Everything else is frankly superficial.   If the protocols remain that EVERY passenger must be confined to cabin for 2 weeks then it's game over for the cruise industry imho.  

 

So the wait continues.

 

It's simply a game of cat and mouse between big global powers and the cruise line fat cats.  Until they jointly reach agreements no-one is cruising anywhere. 

 

The 2m social distance measure is utterly facile and meaningless.   Always has been.  It's a public pacifier.  The germs from coughs and sneezes travel 8m and further and this has been known from the outset.  In addition the germs remain floating in the air for up to 3 hours so keeping 2m from anyone is utterly futile because you're in an environment where you can't avoid the germs.

 

I can guarantee that the 2m social distance nonsense will be eradicated in the near future.  It simply has to be.   Will be interesting to see how the government spins that U-Turn when it happens.

 

Meanwhile I would concentrate on the bigger show stopping issue of how will they deal with COVID-19 cases on-board.

 

.

Edited June 2, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[sverigecruiser]

20 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Obviously everyone cannot choose the same time - so the line will have to assign times;  perhaps after applying a fee for people who want to have some selection -  this is already done with “Faster to the Fun”.

 

If they do not arrive in time to be processed, of course they should be denied boarding.  

 

Lots of times a late-arriving earlier itinerary has resulted in delayed boarding, and delayed departure.

 

They can let people choose among the available times when they book so someone booking early can have a better chance to choose the time they want. I'm not interested in booking a cruise and later be assigned a late check-in time so if the times shall be enforced I must be able to choose when I book. 

 

If social distancing is needed during the check-in it's a problem if the earlier cruise is delayed and everybody with assigned times between 10 am and noon are waiting outside the terminal.

[navybankerteacher]

Just because a workable precaution is not 100% effective, it does not make sense to abandon it.  This approach taken to its absurd (but “logical”) limit would mean abandoning flu vaccines because they are sometimes only 50% effective - or even measles vaccine because the fact that there is not 100% compliance means that measles has not been eradicated.

[KnowTheScore]

There are numerous scenarios that would frustrate any attempts to keep passenger embarkation to specific time slots.  Traffic jams in any given art of the country, adverse weather conditions outside, delays at the kiosks, delays with CPS staff taking cars away and so on and so forth.  It would never work.

 

Similarly at the other end of the vacation, what would you think will happen when people disembark and go hunting for their suitcases in the luggage hall?   It would take many many hours to get people off the ship as you'd have to limit the numbers in the hall and keep them all 2m apart.  Just never gonna happen.

 

People aren't thinking along the right lines.   Social distancing is a nonsense and always has been.  It has to be abolished and it will be I guarantee it.

 

.