Say goodbye to the older ships.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, UPNYGuy said:

it is way too soon to speculate, but I am assuming the S's and R's would go. I also think Pacific Princess (Renaissance ship) would likely get the boot, as well as the fantasy class from Carnival. 

That would be very sad and pretty much close the book on HAL for us.

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, KirkNC said:

Agreed, our last cruise on the Maasdam was our worst HAL cruise. Soooooo much deferred maintenance, it was sad.

We have had only 2 of our cruises on HAL; the other was much better.

 

We did enjoy the ports, and Montreal afterwards. And of course meeting you two  (The entire roll call was you guys and us.). This was 2 summers ago. We did an escorted land tour in Peru last year instead of a cruise. This year we were booked to do a Norwegian fjords cruise on Princess.

 

I truly hope the 2018 Maasdam cruise will not be our last cruise ever.

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

That would be very sad and pretty much close the book on HAL for us.

 

Well, the article says only 6 ships and one we already know: Costa Victoria.

 

I cannot imagine ALL of the remaining will come only from HAL. Remember Carnival Corp includes a lot of brands.

 

Carnival Fantasy and Ecstasy, although larger, are both older than Maasdam, for example.

[Cusebarman]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

It was the last ship we sailed on, but we would not buy it even if the price was considerably less than that.

I just got my refund (after 100 days!) for my Maasdam 3/15 Papeete to San Diego sailing.  I know it is not a new ship, hence the bargain price I paid.  But HAL does a decent job maintaining their ships.  What did you find problematic?

[UPNYGuy]

2 hours ago, Cusebarman said:

Maasdam has been on the market for a long while.  120 million.  You can find it on Yachtworld,  

Pacific Princess has been as well too. Frank DelRio took a look at it for Oceania and turned it down. Said too much work was needed for the price being asked. 

[TriumphGuy]

"Never let a good crisis go to waste". Cruise lines might be looking at this as an opportunity to divest themselves of older, less efficient assets, rather than out of desperation. I'm not an accountant but there may be financial incentives to do this now rather than later?
 

[Copper10-8]

4 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

The Amsterdam will go straight to India to be scrapped, including your luggage..😷

 

[thyme2go]

This situation will cause some ships to be sold........no two ways about it.   But it is also causing some of us to rethink everything about cruising.   We have had cruises that were wonderful, and some that were far less than that.   One of our best was on the Ocean Princess before she was sold.............(French Polynesia Dec. 2013).   The crew, the ship, everything about it was wonderful.......and if I can count on that kind of experience I'd hold out again.    But honestly.......it will take time to sort through all the layers of Covid and international relations.   Time will tell but even  medium to large ships > 2000 people are not our cup of tea........I guess we'll get back in the kayak!

[dockman]

7 hours ago, ski ww said:

Who's in the market to buy old ships with every thing going on right now in the cruising world.

 

China?

[KirkNC]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Well, the article says only 6 ships and one we already know: Costa Victoria.

 

I cannot imagine ALL of the remaining will come only from HAL. Remember Carnival Corp includes a lot of brands.

 

Carnival Fantasy and Ecstasy, although larger, are both older than Maasdam, for example.

True, I didn't mean to imply they would sell all the HAL smaller ships but I would think the S class being the oldest would be the first to go.  In addition to the six mentioned in the filing they also said they were exploring additional sales.  I think there is a real chance of some major realignment which could include multiple HAL ships, just a guess on my part.  

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, TriumphGuy said:

"Never let a good crisis go to waste". Cruise lines might be looking at this as an opportunity to divest themselves of older, less efficient assets, rather than out of desperation. I'm not an accountant but there may be financial incentives to do this now rather than later?
 

They own these depreciated assets, they have obligations to pay for ships being built.  

[KirkNC]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

They own these depreciated assets, they have obligations to pay for ships being built.  

Actually they are in negotiations with the ship yards to delay ships being built.

[Hlitner]

Small ships are absolutely fine in the luxury cruise market.  But the older smaller HAL ships do not make it in any market except with a few of we older HAL folks that overlook all those ship shortcomings.  For example, we are now in the world when folks want balconies and most of the HAL older vessels lack a lot of balconies,.....in normal cabins.  After the issues with COVID-19 quarantines many more folks will avoid cabins where they do not have a balcony.  And then there is the matter of HAL's deferred maintenance which is a polite term for lousy maintenance.  When I go on a MSC vessel I cannot find any rust or corrosion.  For a relatively low cost line all of their ships are immaculate.  When I go on HAL I have had to walk around buckets (catching leaks from above), see peeling paint on my balcony and on deck,  routinely find elevators out of order (or constantly down for maintenance, etc.  I do like HAL (we are 5 Star Mariners) but that often means we overlook the problems.  

 

We only have one HAL cruise (30 days on the Noordam) booked and will likely not book any more HAL cruises until we see what kind of product it will be post COVID-19.  Recently we booked our first Oceania cruise since we think the size and amenities of their newer ships (which means not a "R" ship) should serve us well.

 

Hank 

[KirkNC]

Hank you are exactly right.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Cusebarman said:

I just got my refund (after 100 days!) for my Maasdam 3/15 Papeete to San Diego sailing.  I know it is not a new ship, hence the bargain price I paid.  But HAL does a decent job maintaining their ships.  What did you find problematic?

I was not the one who commented on the maintenance.

 

What we found problematic was the lack of activities. DW especially was disappointed with the lack of opportunities to dance or have dance lessons.

[UPNYGuy]

17 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Small ships are absolutely fine in the luxury cruise market.  But the older smaller HAL ships do not make it in any market except with a few of we older HAL folks that overlook all those ship shortcomings.  For example, we are now in the world when folks want balconies and most of the HAL older vessels lack a lot of balconies,.....in normal cabins.  After the issues with COVID-19 quarantines many more folks will avoid cabins where they do not have a balcony.  And then there is the matter of HAL's deferred maintenance which is a polite term for lousy maintenance.  When I go on a MSC vessel I cannot find any rust or corrosion.  For a relatively low cost line all of their ships are immaculate.  When I go on HAL I have had to walk around buckets (catching leaks from above), see peeling paint on my balcony and on deck,  routinely find elevators out of order (or constantly down for maintenance, etc.  I do like HAL (we are 5 Star Mariners) but that often means we overlook the problems.  

 

We only have one HAL cruise (30 days on the Noordam) booked and will likely not book any more HAL cruises until we see what kind of product it will be post COVID-19.  Recently we booked our first Oceania cruise since we think the size and amenities of their newer ships (which means not a "R" ship) should serve us well.

 

Hank 

I really like the R ships, but you run into the same issues you do with Holland America, overlooking issues. While the R ships are impeccably maintained, they are quite a bit older at this point and there’s only so much you could do with them without gutting them completely. 
 

I agree with MSC. I’ve been sailing with them quite a bit lately. And never thought I would say this, but I have been sailing with Carnival quite a bit too. The Spirit class ships are quite similar to the Vistas. I have had great service, and had good experiences with them. 
 

I would suggest at least trying an R ship if you can. They are quite special and unique. Just expect an outdated and small bathroom unless you book a suite. 

[Hlitner]

11 minutes ago, UPNYGuy said:

I really like the R ships, but you run into the same issues you do with Holland America, overlooking issues. While the R ships are impeccably maintained, they are quite a bit older at this point and there’s only so much you could do with them without gutting them completely. 
 

I agree with MSC. I’ve been sailing with them quite a bit lately. And never thought I would say this, but I have been sailing with Carnival quite a bit too. The Spirit class ships are quite similar to the Vistas. I have had great service, and had good experiences with them. 
 

I would suggest at least trying an R ship if you can. They are quite special and unique. Just expect an outdated and small bathroom unless you book a suite. 

We do agree about Carnival.  Many of Carnival's most vocal critics have never been on one of their ships.  It has been a few years since our last Carnival cruise but, at the time, we thought their Lido Buffet was superior to what we get on HAL.  As to the R ships, we loved them in the days of Renaissance.  But now they are primarily being used by Azamara and Oceania which are both priced somewhat higher then mass market lines.  If I am going to pay near-luxury line prices I do not want a regular size cabin.  "O" put much larger cabins on all their new builds but still use the "R" ships are price them at prices where one would expect a much larger cabin/bath.  Speaking of Carnival, another thing we liked about Carnival (and like about MSC where we cruise in their Yacht Club) is the nice variety of live entertainment/bands.  On our last MSC cruise DW and I could walk around the ship at 10:30 and find 4 or 5 venues with live music including country, rock, blues, etc.   On HAL at 10:30 it can be very sad depending on the vessel.

 

Hank

[UPNYGuy]

18 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We do agree about Carnival.  Many of Carnival's most vocal critics have never been on one of their ships.  It has been a few years since our last Carnival cruise but, at the time, we thought their Lido Buffet was superior to what we get on HAL.  As to the R ships, we loved them in the days of Renaissance.  But now they are primarily being used by Azamara and Oceania which are both priced somewhat higher then mass market lines.  If I am going to pay near-luxury line prices I do not want a regular size cabin.  "O" put much larger cabins on all their new builds but still use the "R" ships are price them at prices where one would expect a much larger cabin/bath.  Speaking of Carnival, another thing we liked about Carnival (and like about MSC where we cruise in their Yacht Club) is the nice variety of live entertainment/bands.  On our last MSC cruise DW and I could walk around the ship at 10:30 and find 4 or 5 venues with live music including country, rock, blues, etc.   On HAL at 10:30 it can be very sad depending on the vessel.

 

Hank

we were on Carnival Pride in February. The steakhouse was -bar none- the best steakhouse we have ever been to, on any ship, including Oceania. 

[Cruisin Kay D]

We were on Maasdam last summer, late June 2019, for the 21 day round-trip Alaska from San Francisco, and we found NOTHING at all wrong with the ship, except smoking odors wafting from the Casino into Explorers area and Mix.   But that's going to be the case on the R & S class as long as there are no doors on the Casino area and as long as smoking is allowed there.  I wish the Casino would have several No-Smoking days/nights at the Casino.

[MMDown Under]

7 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Agreed, our last cruise on the Maasdam was our worst HAL cruise. Soooooo much deferred maintenance, it was sad.

I would have loved to have done a Maasdam cruise in the South Pacific/NZ/Australia, but the ship needed maintenance.  Would be wonderful if someone bought it, with the intention to maintain it, and cruised it in the South Pacific/NZ/Australia region.  There is a market in Australia for small ship cruising throughout the whole year, for the Aussie/NZ market.  Pacific Princess would be a great fit for the region also.  I think the Aussie/NZ market has matured enough to have cruises tailored to the local market, instead of an offshoot of the Northern Hemisphere market.  Americans can't understand why we don't have cruises in the Northern summer.  I tell them why!!

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Actually they are in negotiations with the ship yards to delay ships being built.

They still owe the money.  I think it is wise to not neglect your future and sell off assets that are fully depreciated 

[boze9999]

Keep in mind the older ships have less flexibility if required to accommodate to today's new standards for retrofitting for Covid-19 requirements. And with the reality of sailing at diminished capacities, refurbishing ships to meet new world requirements and sailing only partial ships in the fleets, the CCL Corp decision is fairly black and white. 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by boze9999

[slidergirl]

9 hours ago, KirkNC said:

LOL, someone there will be wearing my boxers!

Take it all off on your tax returns as charitable donations!!!!

[Himself]

11 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

Having sailed many of the HAL ships - and of the bigger ones, the Nieuw Amsterdam is my favourite - I have come back to an appreciation of the smaller ships.  I really hope HAL keeps some of them.

NA and Eurodam are my favorite of the larger ships.  I have sailed all the HAL ships which are currently sailing for HAL

[Sue from Canada]

13 hours ago, UPNYGuy said:

it is way too soon to speculate, but I am assuming the S's and R's would go. I also think Pacific Princess (Renaissance ship) would likely get the boot, as well as the fantasy class from Carnival. 

Nooooo.  The S and R ships are my favourite.  I don't like the bigger ships.  Maybe Bill Gates can buy one for me (LOL).