EU Considering Travel Ban on US Citizens

[AlanF65]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:57 PM, Sir PMP said:

Why does Azar (a political appointee) contradict his bosses? That because at 40k cases a day, it is impossible to contact trace the disease in the hotspots.

Actually all they need to do is require installation of a Covid-19 app on anyone that has a smart phone, my phone already has covid-19 tracing if I install an app, the apps do 14 day anonymous data that can tell you if you have been in contact with any one that tested positive.

 

If you have an Android phone, its settings - Google and there it is Covid-19 notifications, for IOS its under health.

So they can trace anyone with a smart phone, they just need to overcome the minor civil liberties issues of tracking everyone in the country everywhere they go.

 

[HappyInVan]

The western hemisphere has finally overtaken Europe in terms of covid deaths per capita.

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200629-covid-19-sitrep-161.pdf?sfvrsn=74fde64e_2

 

 

While Europe is opening up after defeating the disease, the Americas is facing an unchecked pandemic. Not good for cruising or the cruise companies.

 

Here is the daily Florida DOH report...

 

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/action/report_archive/state/state_reports_latest.pdf

 

 

The bar charts (below) trace the changes in covid positive test rate from June 4 to 28. The

disease has become 4x more prevalent in 3 weeks.

 

Is it a matter of concern to the public? Yes, seniors (>65) in FL comprise 21% of the population. Is it a matter of concern to cruise pax? Definitely. Will cruise ships operate out of FL before summer 2021? IMO, unlikely.

 

Could you cruise out of New York city? Residents of a state being quarantined will have to isolate for 14 days after arrival.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/eight-states-added-to-new-york-governors-quarantine-order.html

 

Has NY defeated the disease? Looks like it. Their positive test rate is 1%. What does FL have to do to get their positive test rate to 1%? How long before the borders open again?

 

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Map?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by HappyInVan

[dockman]

Then according to the law Walmart should be cited for failing to enforce the executive order....

 

I never suggested a cop in every retail store .  There are more people daily in Walmart by far than any other place in my town.  Perhaps it is a bigger priority or less hassle for several local cops to sit on side of road to catch speeders who may well hurt someone else.  I personally would submit that a higher priority is the protection of public safety by enforcing the executive order that could well prevent multiple people from getting ill and hospitalized or worse.  

 

It is a shame that so many people just obviously don't give a hoot if they get infected or if they pass that infection on to grandma or grandpa or who knows who.  Hard to believe that with wall to wall news coverage that they are unaware of the executive order so ignorance is not an excuse.  Stupidity or trying to make some idiotic political statement seems more likely.

[Despegue]

39 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

Bolding is mine..

 

As in most sates and jurisdictions, law enforcement resources are limited, and I'm sure that the police in NC have bigger fish to fry than to actually station a cop at every retail outlet in the state to be a hall monitor with regard to mask wearing.

 

Here is an excerpt from the new NC Executive Order:

 

Under, Executive Order 147, businesses must have all workers wear face coverings. Retail businesses must also have all customers wear face coverings when they are inside the establishment and may be within six feet of another person, unless the customer comes under an exception identified in the order.

The order states that citations can be written to businesses or organizations that fail to enforce the requirement to wear face coverings. Law enforcement personnel cannot criminally enforce the face covering requirements of this Order against individual workers, customers, or patrons.

 

The wearing of seat belts is state law in NC and most other states, wearing of masks is not, so therefore is not illegal to not wear one.

Ok, but then you can not enter the store. Simple. If you enter then anyhow, you obviously ARE trespassing.

Also, does the USA not have an Emergency law where the Government can implement temporary measures that are law and must be adhered to or else be fined or prosecuted?

 

[npcl]

20 minutes ago, Despegue said:

Ok, but then you can not enter the store. Simple. If you enter then anyhow, you obviously ARE trespassing.

Also, does the USA not have an Emergency law where the Government can implement temporary measures that are law and must be adhered to or else be fined or prosecuted?

 

Depends upon how the order is written.  Some states have written those with fines and criminal enforcement.  However, just as things vary from state to state you have also had city level police departments, and country sheriff departments come out and state that they will not enforce the restrictions.

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, KroozNut said:

Under, Executive Order 147, businesses must have all workers wear face coverings. Retail businesses must also have all customers wear face coverings when they are inside the establishment.... Law enforcement personnel cannot criminally enforce the face covering requirements of this Order against individual workers, customers, or patrons.

 

 

 

What's the point of going half way? You might as well have no mitigation measures. You'll have herd immunity some time in 2025. Then, the borders can reopen.

 

In Arizona, they're reimposing some restrictions when their ICU beds are only at 89% capacity. They should wait until it's 100% capacity. 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/arizona-reports-record-spike-in-new-coronavirus-cases-and-deaths-ahead-of-pences-visit.html

 

Then, the medical staff can walk away...

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/im-health-care-worker-know-152320306.html

 

 

 

 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

41 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

The western hemisphere has finally overtaken Europe in terms of covid deaths per capita.

 

While Europe is opening up after defeating the disease, the Americas is facing an unchecked pandemic. Not good for cruising or the cruise companies.

 

Will cruise ships operate out of FL before summer 2021? IMO, unlikely.

 

 

 

If you check the current anchorages of the HAL fleet, NONE of their ships are in waters under US jurisdiction. 
Will any ships operate before summer 2021? Probably. Will they operate out of US ports, and will any of us from North America be allowed aboard? Quite possibly not.

[npcl]

31 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

If you check the current anchorages of the HAL fleet, NONE of their ships are in waters under US jurisdiction. 
Will any ships operate before summer 2021? Probably. Will they operate out of US ports, and will any of us from North America be allowed aboard? Quite possibly not.

However, no place else is currently allowing large cruise ships to operate.  The countries that seem to be the best at controlling the outbreak also tend to have the tightest restrictions against cruise ships.  New Zealand - banned, Australia - banned, Canada - banned.

 

You might see large cruise ships operate, but most likely within a single country or maybe in the EU with many restrictions.

 

 

[MTAK]

To say that anyone has defeated this virus is a huge overstatement IMO.  Countries need to be very careful as they ease travel restrictions or they may end up with spikes of their own.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

However, no place else is currently allowing large cruise ships to operate.  The countries that seem to be the best at controlling the outbreak also tend to have the tightest restrictions against cruise ships.  New Zealand - banned, Australia - banned, Canada - banned.

 

You might see large cruise ships operate, but most likely within a single country or maybe in the EU with many restrictions.

 

 

At the moment, of course. But when larger ships do operate again, the first stage will likely be in regional bubble zones without high COVID stats or laws that prevent cruises from operating in domestic waters only.
It would be strategically and financially irresponsible for a company not to use this time to position at least some clean, clear, already quarantined ships in a geographic location to take advantage of the earlier sailing opportunities.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, AlanF65 said:

Actually all they need to do is require installation of a Covid-19 app on anyone that has a smart phone, my phone already has covid-19 tracing if I install an app, the apps do 14 day anonymous data that can tell you if you have been in contact with any one that tested positive.

 

If you have an Android phone, its settings - Google and there it is Covid-19 notifications, for IOS its under health.

So they can trace anyone with a smart phone, they just need to overcome the minor civil liberties issues of tracking everyone in the country everywhere they go.

 

You cannot get people even to wear masks and at the same time write "the minor civil liberties issues of tracking everyone in the country everywhere they go." WOW!

 

And what about the luddites like me; I do not have a smart phone, in fact I do not even have a cell phone. (I do have masks.)

[npcl]

54 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

At the moment, of course. But when larger ships do operate again, the first stage will likely be in regional bubble zones without high COVID stats or laws that prevent cruises from operating in domestic waters only.
It would be strategically and financially irresponsible for a company not to use this time to position at least some clean, clear, already quarantined ships in a geographic location to take advantage of the earlier sailing opportunities.

But again the question is where?  The most logical would be Australia and New Zealand, but neither country seems to have any interest in allowing cruise ships to operate this year.

 

You have the EU, but a small Greek cruise line (one that operates mostly within Greece) just announced that they are not going to operate until at least March 2021.

 

MSC has talked about doing EU only cruises, but it is unclear if the EU will allow them, and if they will be able to start.

 

So as I said earlier the countries in the best position to allow cruises, also seem to be the same ones that have the tightest restrictions. 

 

So one could move ships, but without some information that cruises are going to be allowed, all they will be doing is burning fuel and then trying to figure out how to get crew in and out of those relatively COVID free countries.

[AlanF65]

45 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

You cannot get people even to wear masks and at the same time write "the minor civil liberties issues of tracking everyone in the country everywhere they go." WOW!

 

And what about the luddites like me; I do not have a smart phone, in fact I do not even have a cell phone. (I do have masks.)

They should supply you with a smart device so you can be tracked and traced. :=)

I have masks, more masks, and more masks along with sanitizer, more sanitizer and more sanitizer.

I saw a joke add yesterday 1 free roll of NEW TP with a case of Corona beer.

[kazu]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

You cannot get people even to wear masks and at the same time write "the minor civil liberties issues of tracking everyone in the country everywhere they go." WOW!

 

And that is the problem.  Everyone needs to come together (with physical distancing) to defeat this.  In Canada masks are not open to discussion.  We wear them and understand why.  

If you want to go to the hospital, physio, hair salon, barbershop (yes ours are open), dentist and many stores, masks are obligatory.  There is no option - wear it or don’t go in.  

It’s a pretty simple technique which seems to be working fairly well for us so far.  Everyone has come together to protect everyone here.  No partisanship or politics.  I’m sure the political parties will argue later as usual but right now they are galvanized to protect their citizens.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

And that is the problem.  Everyone needs to come together (with physical distancing) to defeat this.  In Canada masks are not open to discussion.  We wear them and understand why.  

If you want to go to the hospital, physio, hair salon, barbershop (yes ours are open), dentist and many stores, masks are obligatory.  There is no option - wear it or don’t go in.  

It’s a pretty simple technique which seems to be working fairly well for us so far.  Everyone has come together to protect everyone here.  No partisanship or politics.  I’m sure the political parties will argue later as usual but right now they are galvanized to protect their citizens.  

There really is a fundamental difference between Canadians and US citizens.

[cscurlock]

3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

And that is the problem.  Everyone needs to come together (with physical distancing) to defeat this.  In Canada masks are not open to discussion.  We wear them and understand why.  

If you want to go to the hospital, physio, hair salon, barbershop (yes ours are open), dentist and many stores, masks are obligatory.  There is no option - wear it or don’t go in.  

It’s a pretty simple technique which seems to be working fairly well for us so far.  Everyone has come together to protect everyone here.  No partisanship or politics.  I’m sure the political parties will argue later as usual but right now they are galvanized to protect their citizens.  

Someone just needs to bring this to the courts in a challenge and get shot down as most do when there is a public health emergency.  Once that happens then this talk of freedom and masks will just go away. 

[HappyInVan]

Here's useful details from CNBC...

 

"On June 11, the EU published a four-part checklist that set forth “objective criteria” to create a “common list” of countries to lift travel restrictions into the EU and Schengen Area countries."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/why-americans-wont-be-traveling-to-europe-anytime-soon.html

 

 

[iancal]

How the EU arrived at what countries would be allowed to enter:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/e-u-coronavirus-safe-list-why-u-s-was-nowhere-n1232741

[Horizon chaser 1957]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:53 PM, npcl said:

But again the question is where?  The most logical would be Australia and New Zealand, but neither country seems to have any interest in allowing cruise ships to operate this year.

 

So as I said earlier the countries in the best position to allow cruises, also seem to be the same ones that have the tightest restrictions. 

 

So one could move ships, but without some information that cruises are going to be allowed, all they will be doing is burning fuel and then trying to figure out how to get crew in and out of those relatively COVID free countries.

Norway resumed small ocean cruises of up to 11 days to domestic ports in mid June. The first ones have already come and gone. Residents of Norway, Finland and Iceland are allowed aboard. French Polynesia is allowing Paul Gauguin to resume cruising there later this month. There are heavy duty health checks and precautions involved. 
These are small ships,  but the 3600 passenger Explorer Dream is about to cruise out of Taiwan later in July. The crew has to undergo a 14 day quarantine on land before a maximum of 1800 passengers, Taiwan residents only, board and set sail. The itinerary is Taiwanese ports and islands only. 
Cruising is already starting up, in areas that have their act together. And I’m sure the major cruise companies have a lot more advance information than I can pull off Google.
 

 

[dockman]

I found this tip works well for me to keep my glasses from fogging up while wearing my mask.

 

Put a tissue inside the top of the mask: If you fold a tissue horizontally and put it between your face and the top of your mask—so it sits over the bridge of your nose— the moisture from your breath will be absorbed by the tissue instead of hitting your glasses lenses.

[puppycanducruise]

6 minutes ago, dockman said:

I found this tip works well for me to keep my glasses from fogging up while wearing my mask.

 

Put a tissue inside the top of the mask: If you fold a tissue horizontally and put it between your face and the top of your mask—so it sits over the bridge of your nose— the moisture from your breath will be absorbed by the tissue instead of hitting your glasses lenses.

Thanks for the tip.

[Vict0riann]

1 hour ago, dockman said:

I found this tip works well for me to keep my glasses from fogging up while wearing my mask.

 

Put a tissue inside the top of the mask: If you fold a tissue horizontally and put it between your face and the top of your mask—so it sits over the bridge of your nose— the moisture from your breath will be absorbed by the tissue instead of hitting your glasses lenses.

Good idea!  It is so annoying having your glasses fog up whenever you are trying to read something.

[npcl]

12 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

Norway resumed small ocean cruises of up to 11 days to domestic ports in mid June. The first ones have already come and gone. Residents of Norway, Finland and Iceland are allowed aboard. French Polynesia is allowing Paul Gauguin to resume cruising there later this month. There are heavy duty health checks and precautions involved. 
These are small ships,  but the 3600 passenger Explorer Dream is about to cruise out of Taiwan later in July. The crew has to undergo a 14 day quarantine on land before a maximum of 1800 passengers, Taiwan residents only, board and set sail. The itinerary is Taiwanese ports and islands only. 
Cruising is already starting up, in areas that have their act together. And I’m sure the major cruise companies have a lot more advance information than I can pull off Google.
 

 

Doubt much more than what is available publicly.  Hurtigrutin was doing ferry service during the outbreak, so not much change there.  A cruise out of Taiwan, solely for Taiwan citizens, only going to port in Taiwan, does not exactly represent a startup for the mainland cruise lines.

 

Expect EU to potentially start, but from the draft the restrictions may actually end up being more complex than the CDC.  While many of the topics in the EU document are the same as those that the CDC has requested the cruise lines to address, the EU document goes into considerable detail and includes a couple of areas the CDC did not include.

Edited July 3, 2020 by npcl

[tommui987]

If a  virus were a person, take away its passport and cancel its visa.

 

But a virus is a virus and it does not respect borders.

A country/state can try to minimize, but it is wishful thinking thinking closing its borders will stop the spread.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, tommui987 said:

But a virus is a virus and it does not respect borders.

A country/state can try to minimize, but it is wishful thinking thinking closing its borders will stop the spread.

 

I agree that the virus does not respect borders.  It doesn’t care as long as it can spread.

But, if borders are closed then I respectfully disagree since I think the closures do help.

If it’s semi under control in one country and running rampant in another country, if those citizens where it is not under control are not permitted in then it does help contain the virus.  that’s the reason so many borders are closed and IMO, it seems to be working.

Every country has it’s own problems right now containing and trying to control this thing.

If it can’t spread and can’t find hosts, it will dissipate.  

Wearing a mask when you are out and about protects everyone and can help stop the spread.