EU Releases Guidelines for Return to Cruising during Covid

[TeaBag]

Cruising is looking a bit iffy for us too.   I hope they get a vaccine soon.

[chipmaster]

Their  won't be cruising!  This is like crafting guidelines for how you'd have manage a football game with spectators.  Put all the guidelines in and they are so impractical you either say it is all for show and you ignore but pretend you are doing it and are willing to accept the consequences for the societal joy and economic benefit of allowing the activity.

[jpom18]

12 hours ago, caribill said:

Cruise ships will have to report as a possible Covid-29 case anybody with any Covid-19 symptom.

 

However, it seems that Covid-19 symptoms now include just about any illness symptom including:

"any person with at least one of the following symptoms: cough, fever, shortness of breath, sudden onset of anosmia, ageusia or dysgeusia. Additional less specific symptoms may include headache, chills, muscle pain, fatigue, vomiting and/or diarrhoea."

 

 

So the first passenger on a cruise that is ill for any reason might make the ship regarded as a plague ship just in case that person has Covid-19.

Ill? Hell I have Headache, Pain, and Fatigue every morning I get up and have to drag my sorry butt into work, funny thing is they all disappear when I'm on a cruise.  Go Figure.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, TeaBag said:

I hope they get a vaccine soon.

 

Yesterday the news had a report that they would consider approving a vaccine that was only 50% effective.

 

I would want one that is better than a 50/50 chance it would work.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

It will be interesting to see how these guidelines might change once a vaccine is easily accessible.

[azbirdmom]

11 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

It will be interesting to see how these guidelines might change once a vaccine is easily accessible.

 

Accessible and effective.  That is what we are waiting for as well!

[ontheweb]

16 hours ago, chipmaster said:

Their  won't be cruising!  This is like crafting guidelines for how you'd have manage a football game with spectators.  Put all the guidelines in and they are so impractical you either say it is all for show and you ignore but pretend you are doing it and are willing to accept the consequences for the societal joy and economic benefit of allowing the activity.

I don't even think you would need fans in the seats to make football impractical at this point in time. One NFL coach has already asked how do you social distance in a huddle. And that's even before blocking and tackling.

 

Dr. Fauci has praised the NBA"s model as creative, yet one player has found it baffling. He asked how do you ban playing doubles in ping pong and yet let us set screens in games.

[wowzz]

45 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I don't even think you would need fans in the seats to make football impractical at this point in time. One NFL coach has already asked how do you social distance in a huddle. And that's even before blocking and tackling.

 

Dr. Fauci has praised the NBA"s model as creative, yet one player has found it baffling. He asked how do you ban playing doubles in ping pong and yet let us set screens in games.

Football in Europe (soccer to Americans) has been played for a few weeks with no fans. As yet, there have been no instances of CV19 being spread between players, due to the protocols in place.

[HaveWeMetYet]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:54 AM, PrincessLuver said:

 

 

Well,  if you are American we can't go to Europe anyway because we are banned so it is a mute point.  I doubt the Europeans will have a problem following these guidelines but many Americans will just say they cannot do them for whatever reason....and then not do them!

Europeans will have a major issue with these guidelines and will not cruise in any substantial numbers with them.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I don't even think you would need fans in the seats to make football impractical at this point in time. One NFL coach has already asked how do you social distance in a huddle. And that's even before blocking and tackling.

 

Dr. Fauci has praised the NBA"s model as creative, yet one player has found it baffling. He asked how do you ban playing doubles in ping pong and yet let us set screens in games.

Several NBA and NFL players and even more college football players have been testing positive, and they have not even started yet! And actually when the NBA first shut down in March when one player on the Utah Jazz tested positive, IIRC, he did pass it on to teammates.

 

I was watching some Korean baseball on ESPN this morning. They have delayed allowing fans because South Korea had a spike, an additional 50 positives in a day. Then is was said that the population of S. Korea was about 1/7 of the USA, so that would translate into 350 for the USA. I think that now would be considered a huge improvement, not a spike.

 

[weberman]

I think we are seeing the slow demise of cruising. As we are both in our 70's we have decided to not cruise any longer vaccine or not. Peer reviews state that in this type of virus Inactivated vaccines like the Flu vaccine had about 65% efficacy. And especially as stated in the OP. Just a feeling but I think the Sept. 15th date will be extended with the current multi state outbreaks.

Edited July 3, 2020 by weberman
spell

[chipmaster]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

Football in Europe (soccer to Americans) has been played for a few weeks with no fans. As yet, there have been no instances of CV19 being spread between players, due to the protocols in place.

 

Clemson football team has 1/3 of the team testing positive, wonder how they field a team if a substantial number are postive.  Does the team have to field a fully negative team that has been isolated to make sure that those that are negative are truely negative before they play?

 

Same with NBA etc... all negative or let them all get positive

[voljeep]

12 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

Clemson football team has 1/3 of the team testing positive, wonder how they field a team if a substantial number are postive.  Does the team have to field a fully negative team that has been isolated to make sure that those that are negative are truely negative before they play?

 

Same with NBA etc... all negative or let them all get positive

it's been reported by sources ... that Clemson and other teams are deliberately exposing players to Covid-19 now, so they can become immune when the season actually starts ... 

[npcl]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:19 AM, caribill said:

Cruise ships will have to report as a possible Covid-29 case anybody with any Covid-19 symptom.

 

However, it seems that Covid-19 symptoms now include just about any illness symptom including:

"any person with at least one of the following symptoms: cough, fever, shortness of breath, sudden onset of anosmia, ageusia or dysgeusia. Additional less specific symptoms may include headache, chills, muscle pain, fatigue, vomiting and/or diarrhoea."

 

 

So the first passenger on a cruise that is ill for any reason might make the ship regarded as a plague ship just in case that person has Covid-19.

No, it does mean that they would end up having to actually test potential COVID cases, instead of just hiding behind "flu like symptoms" . If a passenger had similar symptoms it would require a test.  Then if positive require other actions.

[npcl]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:19 AM, caribill said:

Cruise ships will have to report as a possible Covid-29 case anybody with any Covid-19 symptom.

 

However, it seems that Covid-19 symptoms now include just about any illness symptom including:

"any person with at least one of the following symptoms: cough, fever, shortness of breath, sudden onset of anosmia, ageusia or dysgeusia. Additional less specific symptoms may include headache, chills, muscle pain, fatigue, vomiting and/or diarrhoea."

 

 

So the first passenger on a cruise that is ill for any reason might make the ship regarded as a plague ship just in case that person has Covid-19.

No, it does mean that they would end up having to actually test potential COVID cases, instead of just hiding behind "flu like symptoms" . If a passenger had similar symptoms it would require a test.  Then if positive require other actions.

[d9704011]

Another false flag thread title.  The EU has not yet made any decisions/recommendations.  Here is a footnote from the cover page of the document:

 

The EU HEALTHY GATEWAYS Joint Action has received funding from the European Union, in the framework of the Third Health Programme (2014-2020). The content of this document represents the views of the author only and is his/her sole responsibility; it cannot be considered to reflect the views of the European Commission and/or the Consumers, Health, Agriculture and Food Executive Agency (CHAFEA) or any other body of the European Union. The European Commission and the Agency do not accept any responsibility for use that may be made of the information it contains.

[chipmaster]

31 minutes ago, voljeep said:

it's been reported by sources ... that Clemson and other teams are deliberately exposing players to Covid-19 now, so they can become immune when the season actually starts ... 

 

If you consider the ethnic make up of teams and benefactors strangely borders on unethical exploitation 

[npcl]

19 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Another false flag thread title.  The EU has not yet made any decisions/recommendations.  Here is a footnote from the cover page of the document:

 

The EU HEALTHY GATEWAYS Joint Action has received funding from the European Union, in the framework of the Third Health Programme (2014-2020). The content of this document represents the views of the author only and is his/her sole responsibility; it cannot be considered to reflect the views of the European Commission and/or the Consumers, Health, Agriculture and Food Executive Agency (CHAFEA) or any other body of the European Union. The European Commission and the Agency do not accept any responsibility for use that may be made of the information it contains.

This is pretty much a standard disclaimer for anyone working on a project that received funding from the EU until the guidelines are approved.  The following is an extraction from an EU visibility guidelines document for projects for how to document and communicate project results.

 

”This publication is produced with the assistance of the European Union. The contents of this publication are the sole responsibility of <name of grant beneficiary and implementing partner > and may in no way be taken to reflect the views of the European Union“.

 

It just means that it is a draft and not a final approved document.

Edited July 3, 2020 by npcl

[chengkp75]

37 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Another false flag thread title.  The EU has not yet made any decisions/recommendations.  Here is a footnote from the cover page of the document:

 

21 minutes ago, npcl said:

This is pretty much a standard disclaimer for anyone working on a project that received funding from the EU until the guidelines are approved.  The following is an extraction from an EU visibility guidelines document for projects for how to document and communicate project results.

 

”This publication is produced with the assistance of the European Union. The contents of this publication are the sole responsibility of <name of grant beneficiary and implementing partner > and may in no way be taken to reflect the views of the European Union“.

 

It just means that it is a draft and not a final approved document.

Yes, EU terminology is a bit different than ours.  This document is from the "EU Healthy Gateways Joint Action", which would in the US have the word "Group" attached.  Looking into Healthy Gateways, I find that it is an amalgam of two previous EU programs:  "AirSan" and "ShipSan" (their equivalent to the USPH VSP in the US) their two transportation sanitation programs.  This paper is from a "working group" (i.e. the committee set up to promulgate programs) for the Healthy Gateways Group to decide on and pass to the EU Commission for enactment.  That is why it is an "interim guideline".

 

Since the EU health program mentioned in the paper as the "decision" they are operating under is an EU "decision", it falls on each member nation to determine how best to meet the requirements of the decision, so this document is to give guidance to each EU member nation.

Edited July 3, 2020 by chengkp75

[mnocket]

18 minutes ago, npcl said:

It just means that it is a draft and not a final approved document.

It's a draft from a working group.  It is way too early to get excited about its contents.  When the EU gets around to issuing its official policy, it may or may not look anything like this.  

[mnocket]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Since the EU health program mentioned in the paper as the "decision" they are operating under is an EU "decision", it falls on each member nation to determine how best to meet the requirements of the decision, so this document is to give guidance to each EU member nation.

I'm no expert on EU governance procedures, but it doesn't seem to me that this document could be what you've said it is.  Can a working group funded by the EU, but made of of university and government officials, issue such guidance - to be implemented by member states, without any member vote?

 

It seems more likely to me that this is one working group's proposal and there may be more to come.  It hasn't been acted upon by the EU member states, and has no official status.  It's just one group's proposal.  I suspect the EU will eventually approve an official policy that member states will be required to enforce - but this isn't it.

 

I may be completely wrong about this.  You seem to be much more knowledgeable about EU governance.  Could you explain how this "decision" empowered a working group to produce official policy?

[caribill]

34 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

 

It seems more likely to me that this is one working group's proposal and there may be more to come.  It hasn't been acted upon by the EU member states, and has no official status.  It's just one group's proposal.  I suspect the EU will eventually approve an official policy that member states will be required to enforce - but this isn't it.

 

 

 

Whether or not this is the only proposal to be considered, European cruising that touches more than one country will not resume until a proposal is actually approved and the individual countries figure out how to implement and get agreements with the cruise companies.

 

This will not happen very quickly.

[wowzz]

Lots of responses to the EU working group proposals and guidelines from our American friends.

The important thing to remember, is that no EU nation wants to be seen to be doing anything outside of any guidelines, official, or not.  

No EU president,  prime minister etc wants to stand accused of straying from EU guidelines.

So, the fact that the report is made up of proposals,  recommendations etc is irrelevant.  No one us going to object.

The other fact to remember is that,  whilst cruise lines contribute to some local economies, they pay very little in tax to the EU itself.

And the current president of the EU is Germany,  which is a very small  recipient of cruise lines  dollars, so not much sympathy from that quarter!

So, do not think this report will just disappear.

[Porky55]

So ...... how do the EU Guidelines or even CDC apply if a vaccine becomes available??  Thoughts? 🤔

[travelhound]

3 hours ago, Porky55 said:

So ...... how do the EU Guidelines or even CDC apply if a vaccine becomes available??  Thoughts? 🤔

Null and void 🙂