A promising vaccine on the horizon? Even Dr. Fauci is encouraged by the results so far

[sfaaa]

4 hours ago, ed01106 said:

.  China didn't shut down forever.  Germany didn't shut down forever. South Korea didn't shut down forever.  Nor New Zealand nor Australia nor any other country that got this under control.  We didn't reopenned too soon. 

These countries you mentioned are now dealing with a second wave. It's a vicious circle.

[lenquixote66]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Excellent point that many seem to forget.

 

We are too impatient by half; we are behaving like spoilt children who want their reward before they do their chore; who throw a tantrum when they are told they can't do something.

 

That is the nature of too many people in our society .

[JAMESCC]

I have a hard time seeing how this ends. It's just raging, people dying. Reports are by years end there could be a million dead worldwide. I mean we are at 675,000 now in August so it's easy to see. Sad stuff and forget about cruising from North America for God only knows how long.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Covepointcruiser]

Things are good in many states including ours, Maryland.    The news seems a bit negative regarding COVID.    Sure, there are problem areas, but that does not mean all areas of the U.S. have not controlled the outbreak.   Look at the CDC site and see the real numbers

[SelectSys]

22 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Yes we do have some Jalisco (PV) connections and the situation there is really bad at the moment.  COVID is a major problem in Mexico (underreported by the government) and Puerto Vallarta has more then its share.  There has been some talk (a few days ago) about the government moving back to some kind of shut down phase but the Mexicans are really against shut downs because of its impact on the economy.  Predictions are that the virus will peak in August, but who knows?  

 

Hank

 

I have family in  Baja California and the state of Veracruz along with friends in major cities like Monterrey and Mexico City.   You are right, it is totally messed up and not reported in the US news.  The old and poor are, as always, paying the highest price. I know of no one personally that has died or been very sick where I am in CA, but many in Mexico.  Totally sad.

 

6 hours ago, ed01106 said:

We can't.  But some very selfish people like yourself have needlessly prolonged this...

 

What do you know about me and my behavior during the pandemic?  How have I posted in such a way that you view me as acting selfish? Please.

 

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

We are too impatient by half; we are behaving like spoilt children who want their reward before they do their chore; who throw a tantrum when they are told they can't do something.

 

 

I call Baby Boomers of which I am a part of, America's weakest generation.  We have as a group been largely self-indulgent and narcissistic for our entire existence.  

Edited August 1, 2020 by SelectSys

[lenquixote66]

28 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

I have family in  Baja California and the state of Veracruz along with friends in major cities like Monterrey and Mexico City.   You are right, it is totally messed up and not reported in the US news.  The old and poor are, as always, paying the highest price. I know of no one personally that has died or been very sick where I am in CA, but many in Mexico.  Totally sad.

 

 

What do you know about me and my behavior during the pandemic?  How have I posted in such a way that you view me as acting selfish? Please.

 

 

I call Baby Boomers of which I am a part of, America's weakest generation.  We have as a group been largely self-indulgent and narcissistic for our entire existence.  

There is no classification for people my age other than old timers.

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

There is no classification for people my age other than old timers.

 

As you wish.  However, if you are curious about all the named generations of the last 100 or so years the following link provides definitions.

 

https://www.careerplanner.com/Career-Articles/Generations.cfm

 

[ed01106]

3 hours ago, sfaaa said:

These countries you mentioned are now dealing with a second wave. It's a vicious circle.

And they are managing it and containing thru contact tracing.  Combined those countries had less new cases yesterday than we had deaths yesterday.  

 

We need a hard shut down until the virus declines to the point that contact tracing is feasible.

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Things are good in many states including ours, Maryland.    The news seems a bit negative regarding COVID.    Sure, there are problem areas, but that does not mean all areas of the U.S. have not controlled the outbreak.   Look at the CDC site and see the real numbers

 

The problem or challenge is unlike the countries like Italy/ Spain US never shut down and curtailed travel with strict travel.  It was the totally lack of stringent shutdown and control of x-state travel that could have contained it.  The continued lack of any Federal/Nationally coordinated containment is where US infections will slosh back and forth in spikes far large than in even free Western Europe as even their democracy and governments put strict controls in.  

 

  US prides it's freedom/liberty to exercise those rights at the cost of deaths!

 

The places that are in control will blow up soon with out strict travel which hasn't been even attempted to be enforced, Ca and others were good for a while but density of population and such resulted in explosion.

 

NYC being dense is a case study to see.  People there probably on every street saw ambulances and hearse show no the cost of not being careful, the rest of the US think it is some remote thing "Hoax"   The young and irresponsible in almost every state see it as something that won't impact them and got to enjoy life,  those in the north east saw death up close, let's see if the remember it well and are trying to be safe, we'll see soon.

Edited August 1, 2020 by chipmaster

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I have family in  Baja California and the state of Veracruz along with friends in major cities like Monterrey and Mexico City.   You are right, it is totally messed up and not reported in the US news.  The old and poor are, as always, paying the highest price. I know of no one personally that has died or been very sick where I am in CA, but many in Mexico.  Totally sad.

 

 

What do you know about me and my behavior during the pandemic?  How have I posted in such a way that you view me as acting selfish? Please.

 

 

I call Baby Boomers of which I am a part of, America's weakest generation.  We have as a group been largely self-indulgent and narcissistic for our entire existence.  

 

Us are the most obese, unfit and supersized of the world - diabetic of the world.    There is a direct connection between that and a lot of US larger problems.   

 

Get out eat right, exercise and good things come from a lifetime of good habits.   And Yes one can indulge in buffets on cruises and still do well.    

 

Then you pile that on the freedom/liberty thing and history of that above any self sacrifice for the larger good of the state/community/nation that seems to be running rampant and viola you have the extreme situation here where nobody is willing to meet in the middle and compromise.  

 

Hopefully come next year we get a change of this, and we can go cruising again by end of 2021

Edited August 1, 2020 by chipmaster

[lenquixote66]

32 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

As you wish.  However, if you are curious about all the named generations of the last 100 or so years the following link provides definitions.

 

https://www.careerplanner.com/Career-Articles/Generations.cfm

 

Thanks.I am a member of the Silent Generation.

[clo]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

I call Baby Boomers of which I am a part of, America's weakest generation.  We have as a group been largely self-indulgent and narcissistic for our entire existence.  

Can you spell VIETNAM?

[SelectSys]

18 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

Us are the most obese, unfit and supersized of the world - diabetic of the world.    There is a direct connection between that and a lot of US larger problems.   

 

Get out eat right, exercise and good things come from a lifetime of good habits.   And Yes one can indulge in buffets on cruises and still do well.    

 

Then you pile that on the freedom/liberty thing and history of that above any self sacrifice for the larger good of the state/community/nation that seems to be running rampant and viola you have the extreme situation here where nobody is willing to meet in the middle and compromise.  

 

Hopefully come next year we get a change of this, and we can go cruising again by end of 2021

 

Actually, according to the International Diabetes Foundation,  the US is "only" #43 in terms of population adjusted diabetes.  Our Mexican neighbors to south come in at #20 which is another reason why COVID is wreaking such carnage there. 

 

I totally agree with you on exercise and healthy habits.  Too bad so many of our fellow residents and especially the young in the US get such poor examples everywhere they turn both in and out of the home.  The notion of learning values at home is simply another one of those quaint traditions being relegated to the dust bin.

 

I am actually not expecting too much change regardless of election outcome this year.  Both major parties are as corrupt as can be due to their entrenched duopoly on power for the last 180 years!  Remember, the last time a major party emerged in the US was in the 1830's when the Republicans replaced the Whigs although I doubt they cover that fact in History these days,   There is a reason why so many people in the US register as independents as most really have no party with which they truly identify.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SelectSys]

11 minutes ago, clo said:

Can you spell VIETNAM?

 

Of course.  Many thousands sacrificed there, but that one event actually did much more harm than good to the country and the Baby Boomer generation itself.  You also remember that many from those days ran from service as well via college deferments, medical exemptions and the like. Once again the poor took it on the chin and paid for the mistakes of others. 

 

Kennedy, and for sure Lyndon Johnson, should have shut it down early on rather than escalate.  Vietnam also set the stage for endless war we have today by creating the conditions to eliminate the draft.  Politicians, practically none of which serve in the military anymore,  want to make sure that wars could be largely kept out of the public eye.  

 

No worries agreeing to disagree.

[clo]

14 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

No worries agreeing to disagree.

I don't even disagree. I just don't want us portrayed as wimps :) You alluded to but didn't mention bone spurs. Best, Cath

[SRF]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:25 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Herd immunity is not the only goal.  If the vaccine is effective for 50% of the people who take it, that is a lot of people HAVE immunity. Nobody can force the “herd” to behave responsibly - but each individual can.  Your continually insisting that a measure is useless unless it is 100% effective is curious.

 

You are incorrect.

 

Herd immunity IS the goal.

 

A vaccine allows you to reach herd immunity without the health care costs of everyone getting sick and reduces the number of die to reach it.

 

A vaccine works by making enough people immune to make the person to person transmission rare, ie herd immunity.

[SRF]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:06 PM, chipmaster said:

 

Very different and easy/quick, every vaccine in trial that I'm aware of is a tweek, everyone went to their war chest and asked their best and brightest, what can we get out there fast that might work.  Everyone went and looked, and tweeked them for what they know and let's see what happens at WARP speed.

 

Something breakthru, that takes time, patience and sometimes luck, but to think that shows up at WARP speed is wishful as it'll just disappear one day.

 

There are a few out there using some newer methods of producing the vaccine, so not quite a tweek.

 

But many of them are the same basic vaccine production done for many other vaccines.

[SRF]

On 7/27/2020 at 3:37 PM, TheOldBear said:

 

There are veterinary coronavirus vaccines - but they not considered too effective for long term protection [see from 2004 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15742624/ ]

 

What looks interesting for the current vaccine development is the use of virus genetic sequencing and engineering - creating vaccines using messenger RNA. I was reading a bit this weekend [popped up on my phone news feed] saying that the mRNA vaccine has the advantage of providing an antibody template of the virus before it gets a chance to attack a cell. This is apparently very different than older techniques. I'll be quite interested in how effective this proves to be.

 

This method is very interesting.

 

And showing some real promise.

 

It and a couple of others were scheduled to start Phase 3 testing last week.

[SelectSys]

41 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

You are incorrect.

 

Herd immunity IS the goal.

 

A vaccine allows you to reach herd immunity without the health care costs of everyone getting sick and reduces the number of die to reach it.

 

A vaccine works by making enough people immune to make the person to person transmission rare, ie herd immunity.

 

I like this story on how the US is becoming the "accidental Sweden" -

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/15/covid19-accidental-sweden-fall-could-be-catastrophic/

 

These other stories suggest that after success, discipline is breaking down in Europe as well -

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-45-officers-injured-at-berlin-rally-against-coronavirus-curbs/a-54402885

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-cases-rise-in-europe-as-youth-hit-beach-and-bars-11596364200

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/30/global-report-france-records-highest-daily-rise-in-covid-19-cases-since-may

 

I sure hope one or more of these vaccines prove effective.  Otherwise, it seems that "herd" immunity will be reached by the disease running its course in most parts of the world.

[crzndeb]

My daughter, who is a Nurse Practitioner in San Diego sent me this article. It’s long, but very interesting. In the 3 offices they have in their group, there has only been 2 cases, out of the hundreds of patients they see. She has a patient now, who tested positive a month ago, and still keeps testing positive. Neither her husband, child, or elderly person she was a caregiver for, has ever tested positive.

 

My daughter has a friend who tested positive at one clinic (lab), went to another one and tested negative. Went back to same 2 labs 2 weeks later and got same results.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/health/gupta-coronavirus-t-cell-cross-reactivity-immunity-wellness/index.html

[chipmaster]

4 hours ago, SRF said:

 

You are incorrect.

 

Herd immunity IS the goal.

 

A vaccine allows you to reach herd immunity without the health care costs of everyone getting sick and reduces the number of die to reach it.

 

A vaccine works by making enough people immune to make the person to person transmission rare, ie herd immunity.

 

Still much to understand in all the phase3 trials

1) efficacy

2) how long for efficacy

 

Even with efficacy for people the question is are they still carriers and can continue to give it to others, even with antibodies.   There is a long list of so many what-ifs that aren't even yet known. 

 

As those with flu vaccine, some still get it, many get more immunity and some could/still get ill and die, how this all rolls out with the SARs-CoV-2 is still to be flushed and will take a year or more.

 

One reason I think the focus on vaccine instead of a larger strategy with vaccine as just one foundation is totally flawed in the US.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by chipmaster