where has the unneeded food gone?

[luckyinpa]

i realize when they first shut down the cruiselines gave stuff away. but as we know they have supply lines in place to feed thousands per ship per week. so every single one of those supply lines was shut down and didnt make it to a ship.  thats a heck of a lot of food the past few months not needed. has there been any reporting on what has happened with all that food? cant imagine being a farmer that relied on the ships to buy my crops. normally a very solid customer. and with few restaurants open you cannot sell it to them even and they have their own supply issues i'm sure. 

 

i downloaded a bunch of cruise shows and i'm watching them and started thinking about all this stuff and its nuts. 

[CruiserBruce]

There have been many stories in the media about surplus food in the supply chain being diverted to food banks. But it has also been mentioned a lot of food wasted due to inappropriate packaging, no transportation availability, initial lack of coordination with producers, transportation and food banks, and a number of other problems. It definitely wasn't a simple flip of a switch. 

[navybankerteacher]

14 minutes ago, luckyinpa said:

i realize when they first shut down the cruiselines gave stuff away. but as we know they have supply lines in place to feed thousands per ship per week. so every single one of those supply lines was shut down and didnt make it to a ship.  thats a heck of a lot of food the past few months not needed. has there been any reporting on what has happened with all that food? cant imagine being a farmer that relied on the ships to buy my crops. normally a very solid customer. and with few restaurants open you cannot sell it to them even and they have their own supply issues i'm sure. 

 

i downloaded a bunch of cruise shows and i'm watching them and started thinking about all this stuff and its nuts. 

There are a lot of middlemen between the farmer and the cruise ships.  The commodities markets generally contract for food long before it leaves the farm, and once it does, it goes through processors, wholesalers and finally the suppliers who deliver to the ships.  There are a numbers of links where the supply line can be diverted.

[CruiserBruce]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

There are a lot of middlemen between the farmer and the cruise ships.  The commodities markets generally contract for food long before it leaves the farm, and once it does, it goes through processors, wholesalers and finally the suppliers who deliver to the ships.  There are a numbers of links where the supply line can be diverted.

BUT....and it's very important, there has to be a demand, for the diverted product. Unfortunately, there really wasn't much added demand. A store will not stock 2 or 3 times it's normal amount of a product if it doesn't think it can sell that product at a profit.

[navybankerteacher]

11 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

BUT....and it's very important, there has to be a demand, for the diverted product. Unfortunately, there really wasn't much added demand. A store will not stock 2 or 3 times it's normal amount of a product if it doesn't think it can sell that product at a profit.

True - but a significant amount of food can be diverted once there is a decrease in regular demand.  Grain can be stored for longer or shorter periods, many fruits and vegetables can be diverted from fresh consumption to frozen/canned. Dairy and egg products are less easy to divert — but at the end of the day much of the food supplies not purchased by cruise lines will be purchased elsewhere — all the passengers who are not going to eat on cruise ships are still going to eat. (Probably somewhat less - once they are not dazzled by the infinite buffet - but much of the diverted demand will show up elsewhere.)

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[gooch47]

I have a friend who sells seed and stuff to farmers.  He is in danger of losing the business.  Farmers just aren't buying.  I'm sure cruise ships aren't ordering stuff as well as restaurants ordering much less, too.

[ilikeanswers]

I have been reading that because of all the travel restrictions farms have not been able to get the migrant workers in to help collect the crops so a lot of food around the world will just waste away on the farms🤔. 

[Philob]

Milk farmers are literally pouring everything down the drain.  Cows produce everyday, but demand is down because food processors are reducing production or shutting down.   Some farmers are actually "reducing" their herd.

[SelectSys]

2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

BUT....and it's very important, there has to be a demand, for the diverted product. Unfortunately, there really wasn't much added demand. A store will not stock 2 or 3 times it's normal amount of a product if it doesn't think it can sell that product at a profit.

 

I am not sure about other areas, but our local supermarket is carrying many different brands that are completely unfamiliar to me that I never saw before the start of COVID.  This makes me think the supply chain is adapting and redirecting food and other items where demand exists and supply is available.

 

17 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

I have been reading that because of all the travel restrictions farms have not been able to get the migrant workers in to help collect the crops so a lot of food around the world will just waste away on the farms🤔. 

 

Maybe you are right in the short run.  I have also seen stories like the one below that companies are also investing in automation to help lower worker counts:

 

https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33297815/tyson-robots-cutting-meat-automation-report/

 

Not good for the low skilled workers.  More changes that are likely accelerated due to COVID.

[Schoifmom]

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

Edited July 23, 2020 by Schoifmom

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

I have been reading that because of all the travel restrictions farms have not been able to get the migrant workers in to help collect the crops so a lot of food around the world will just waste away on the farms🤔. 

Exceptions are being made for migrant workers to enter the US

[SelectSys]

54 minutes ago, Schoifmom said:

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

 

Your statement seems to support what I have been seeing at my local store.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Schoifmom said:

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

What people aren't thinking of is tourism. Not all the people on cruise ships are US residents...many are tourists. Same for restaurants. And tourism came to a full stop. It was estimated 2 million people came to the US from Europe in February alone. That is also food not consumed.

 

I saw reports of literally hundreds of thousands of pounds of potatoes being donated to food banks because there was no market for them.

[Joebucks]

The first few rounds of purchased food were likely donated.

 

They aren't still buying the food though. Lots of businesses are hurting as the demand has fallen.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Philob said:

Milk farmers are literally pouring everything down the drain.  Cows produce everyday, but demand is down because food processors are reducing production or shutting down.   Some farmers are actually "reducing" their herd.

 

The videos of milk being dumped because the dairy farmer has no place to sell it hurts my soul knowing that there are thousands and thousands of children in our country and millions more worldwide that would benefit from having milk to drink.  Our government has failed us and the nations that have looked to the United States for aid and compassion in the past.  

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

The first few rounds of purchased food were likely donated.

 

They aren't still buying the food though. Lots of businesses are hurting as the demand has fallen.

Agree. Just on the news a few minutes ago....Florida's annual fruit and vegetable shipping is down almost 50% this year, so far.

[John Bull]

4 hours ago, Schoifmom said:

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

 

Much the same in the UK.

People still eat - if not on cruise ships or restaurants or other food service outlets, then they eat at home.

Wastages mentioned by other posters are almost-all down to logistics (pickers, drivers, processors) compromised by Covid-19, not to reduced demand.

 

Pubs and restaurants re-opened a couple of weeks back. Limited capacity due to social distancing hasn't been a problem in most establishments, because folk are still wary about dining / drinking out.

To kick-start the normalising, tax on catering is down from 20% to 5%. And for August the govt is subsidising 50% of the check - the customer pays 50%, the establishment gets the other 50% from the govt. Sadly that doesn't include alcohol sales  

 

JB 

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The videos of milk being dumped because the dairy farmer has no place to sell it hurts my soul knowing that there are thousands and thousands of children in our country and millions more worldwide that would benefit from having milk to drink.  Our government has failed us and the nations that have looked to the United States for aid and compassion in the past.  

 

Overproduction and waste by dairy industry has been an issue for many many years.   It certainly has been heightened during this crises, but it isn't anything like a new issue.  

[chengkp75]

17 hours ago, Schoifmom said:

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

This is the main difficulty in the food chain.  Farmers sell to food manufacturers/packagers/wholesalers who have long term contracts with their customers.  When those customers shut down, like a cruise line or restaurant, they don't have any contracts with grocery stores, who are needing increased supplies, so this takes time to redirect the food from where it isn't needed to where it is.  Secondly, those who supply the cruise lines and hospitality industry, do so with generic packaging, most all marked "not for retail sale", so those wholesalers have to switch their packaging lines, from food service to retail, and this can take time and money.  I believe this is why you see "rolling" shortages (here one week, gone the next, but the next item down the aisle is now available), as producers/wholesalers juggle switching their production lines, to meet not only varying demand but also varying supply.

 

The longer this goes on, the more chaotic the supply chain for everything will become.  I spoke to my contractor yesterday, and he says that building materials are starting to show short supplies.  First there was the closure of the Canadian border to forestry products until recently, and now the southern US is shutting back down, and this impacts the supply of southern yellow pine (PT lumber).  Since PT decking is no longer available, the demand for composite decking has increased, and this is now starting to become scarce.  So, the rolling, cascading, and chaotic swings in the supply chain for everything used in life will continue for some time.

[SRF]

On 7/23/2020 at 1:17 PM, Schoifmom said:

I work for a food manufacturer that has products for both retail sale and food service (such as to restaurants and cruise ships).  Our food service business drastically fell (obviously) and a good deal of product was donated; however, the raw materials in the supply chain were diverted to retail production, which has been significantly higher since people are eating more at home.  

 

This what I suspect.

 

The thousands not on the cruise ship are home, and are still eating.  Same for restaurants.

 

X people eat Y amount of food, no matter where they are eating it.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

This what I suspect.

 

The thousands not on the cruise ship are home, and are still eating.  Same for restaurants.

 

X people eat Y amount of food, no matter where they are eating it.

The problem is that it not easy to quickly adapt from food service to retail.

For example,  here in the UK, where most people buy free range eggs, unlike the US, the problem was getting the right packaging for all the "surplus" eggs. Food service want units of 48 eggs,  retail wants 12.

The same with flour.  If you wanted to buy   a 10kg bag of flour, no problem. If you wanted to buy  a 1kg bag, that was problematic.

Interesting to see that the  discounters, like Aldi, were astute enough to buy and sell artisan cheeses that would otherwise have gone to waste. Probably not much profit for the cheesemaker,  but better than  dumping  the cheese.

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Interesting to see that the  discounters, like Aldi, were astute enough to buy and sell artisan cheeses that would otherwise have gone to waste. Probably not much profit for the cheesemaker,  but better than  dumping  the cheese.

 

When restaurants had to shut down in Australia, artisanal cheesemakers didn't know what to do with their cheese so this website that sells cheese packs offered to sell their cheese in similar style packs but as special artisanal packs. The cheesemakers thought they might make some money and at least use some of their product. After two weeks online their cheese storages were emptied and they ended up making more money than selling to restaurants. Turns out in lock down we like to eat a lot of cheese and we are willing to spend money on the good stuff😂.

[whogo]

A meat salesman friend of mine is having a banner year, grocery stores are buying like crazy, he's working by phone instead of traveling, his expenses are down, sales are way up and his company paid a midyear bonus for the first time ever, all this despite a couple of meat packing plant closures.

 

Another food salesman said his business was down 95%. He sells to restaurants. While he managed to convert to a bit of grocery store business, it seems that shoppers don't want to buy 10 pound bags of mozzarella.

[SRF]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:59 PM, wowzz said:

The problem is that it not easy to quickly adapt from food service to retail.

For example,  here in the UK, where most people buy free range eggs, unlike the US, the problem was getting the right packaging for all the "surplus" eggs. Food service want units of 48 eggs,  retail wants 12.

The same with flour.  If you wanted to buy   a 10kg bag of flour, no problem. If you wanted to buy  a 1kg bag, that was problematic.

Interesting to see that the  discounters, like Aldi, were astute enough to buy and sell artisan cheeses that would otherwise have gone to waste. Probably not much profit for the cheesemaker,  but better than  dumping  the cheese.

 

Agreed that there was some issues switching packaging.

 

In the US, in some cases they just put the larger packages on the shelves and people bought them.