Carnival CL sells 18 ships

[dabear]

I just heard on television news that Carnival Cruise Lines sold 18 ships (besides it's prior sale of older ships)from their various cruise lines and is looking to sell more. Looking to find more information. Can RCCL be far behind?

[dabear]

The internet reports that Carnival's 3rd quarter earnings report recently issued, discloses they are planning to sell 18 ships .

[bikerunner]

Go on the assumption at this point everything is on the table.  Question would be who would be buying these ships needs to be answered?  Can understand the less efficient and older ships maybe, but more likely I think orders might be cxled on newer ships or indefinitely put on hold.  No one knows when and how demand will be after all this. Europe ones are barely open, US does not have a timeline etc.  To many unknowns out there.  

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, dabear said:

The internet reports that Carnival's 3rd quarter earnings report recently issued, discloses they are planning to sell 18 ships .

Have you noticed their stock prices over the last 6 months? Or NCL's? Unfortunately this was inevitable.

All the cruise line holding corporations will end up selling off/restructuring their businesses. They need to stay afloat, no pun intended.

 

[jelayne]

I don’t think these are all Carnival ships.  I believe some of these ships are from the other lines owned by Carnival Corp.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, bikerunner said:

Go on the assumption at this point everything is on the table.  Question would be who would be buying these ships needs to be answered?  Can understand the less efficient and older ships maybe, but more likely I think orders might be cxled on newer ships or indefinitely put on hold.  No one knows when and how demand will be after all this. Europe ones are barely open, US does not have a timeline etc.  To many unknowns out there.  

Not all will be sold. Some older ships have already gone, or will go, to the Aliaga ship breaking yard. Some will be moved to other subsidiaries under each cruise line's Holding Corporation. And I've read that some will be sold to new owners looking to start a new cruise line. New builds are definitely on hold. X's next E-class ship Beyond, whose Keel has already been cut, has had her construction delayed but she will be finished and delivered in 2022.

[C-Dragons]

4 minutes ago, jelayne said:

I don’t think these are all Carnival ships.  I believe some of these ships are from the other lines owned by Carnival Corp.

Yes, Carnival is the Corporate Holding company. They own Carnival Cruise Line, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Seabourn, P&O Cruises (Australia), Costa Cruises, AIDA Cruises, P&O Cruises (UK) and Cunard.

[dabear]

1 hour ago, jelayne said:

I don’t think these are all Carnival ships.  I believe some of these ships are from the other lines owned by Carnival Corp.

The article indicates HAL and Princess ships were included

[1025cruise]

Since the news can't differentiate between cruise line and corporation, the ships being sold are across the corporation, not just a single line.

[hcat]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

Yes, Carnival is the Corporate Holding company. They own Carnival Cruise Line, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Seabourn, P&O Cruises (Australia), Costa Cruises, AIDA Cruises, P&O Cruises (UK) and Cunard.

Very big  umbrella. Quite a variety.

 

So is the  holding co the final decision maker or each indiviual cruise line ?

 

In the past, Celeb was very much indep of Royal but now just a " puppet" brand

Not sure where Azamara fits in???.

 

[Baron Barracuda]

30 minutes ago, hcat said:

Very big  umbrella. Quite a variety.

 

So is the  holding co the final decision maker or each indiviual cruise line ?

 

In the past, Celeb was very much indep of Royal but now just a " puppet" brand

Not sure where Azamara fits in???.

 

Puppet?  X is not an independent company just an operating division of RCL.   Any autonomy LLP enjoys is at the discretion of Fain.  If RCL decides to follow CCL's lead and shrink their fleet the fate of M class will be in Fain's hands, not LLP's

 

 

 

[C-Dragons]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Very big  umbrella. Quite a variety.

 

So is the  holding co the final decision maker or each indiviual cruise line ?

 

In the past, Celeb was very much indep of Royal but now just a " puppet" brand

Not sure where Azamara fits in???.

 

X is not independent of RCG, they are a subsidiary, Azamara is too.

RCG owns:

• Royal Caribbean International.
• Celebrity Cruises.
• Silversea Cruises.
• Azamara.
• TUI Cruises.
• Hapag-Lloyd Cruises

Yes, RCG is the final decision maker regarding their subsidiaries.

[Saab4444]

5 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

X is not independent of RCG, they are a subsidiary, Azamara is too.

RCG owns:

• Royal Caribbean International.
• Celebrity Cruises.
• Silversea Cruises.
• Azamara.
• TUI Cruises.
• Hapag-Lloyd Cruises

Yes, RCG is the final decision maker regarding their subsidiaries.

Royal does not own TUI Cruises and Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, it is a 50:50 joint venture with TUI AG Germany where sales and marketing is mainly in the responsibility of TUI and ship management is mainly in the responsibility of Royal.

[C-Dragons]

4 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

Royal does not own TUI Cruises and Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, it is a 50:50 joint venture with TUI AG Germany where sales and marketing is mainly in the responsibility of TUI and ship management is mainly in the responsibility of Royal.

Yes, you are correct, sorry I didn’t break it down it to the nth degree.

[Cruise a holic]

I think Royal and other lines might find this a good opportunity to sell off older ships.  But who knows.  Some need major renovations and it might not pay for the line to invest in them at this time.

[Banjo]

I always noticed when I pay for my Celebrity Cruise that it is listed as Royal Caribbean on my credit card bill.

[Baron Barracuda]

I find it disturbing that CCL is off loading so many ships.  Yes they are older, but six months ago all were considered serviceable.  Doubt they would do this if they thought a vaccine in '21 would quickly lead to recovery for cruise lines.  Instead indicates CCL doesn't believe cruising will recover for a very, very long time.

[hcat]

21 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Puppet?  X is not an independent company just an operating division of RCL.   Any autonomy LLP enjoys is at the discretion of Fain.  If RCL decides to follow CCL's lead and shrink their fleet the fate of M class will be in Fain's hands, not LLP's

 

 

 

Thanks for the  reply.

So X is just a division...forgot what happened when Royal took over.  I used the word "puppet" because  X has  become more and more like Royal over past few years..,systems, programs etc. " Royalization"  was a downgrade of the X experience but guess it works business wise...Hope they do not sell off favorite ships  esp those in  S Class

[Baron Barracuda]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

Thanks for the  reply.

So X is just a division...forgot what happened when Royal took over.  I used the word "puppet" because  X has  become more and more like Royal over past few years..,systems, programs etc. " Royalization"  was a downgrade of the X experience but guess it works business wise...Hope they do not sell off favorite ships  esp those in  S Class

Both X and Royal's IT departments have been widely disparaged on these boards for years.  It only makes sense when they finally got around to upgrading they would develop a single system across all their brands.  Can you give some examples of "Royalization".  Always personally felt the two lines have very different look and feel.  

Edited September 19, 2020 by Baron Barracuda

[Cruise Raider]

4 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

I find it disturbing that CCL is off loading so many ships.  Yes they are older, but six months ago all were considered serviceable.  Doubt they would do this if they thought a vaccine in '21 would quickly lead to recovery for cruise lines.  Instead indicates CCL doesn't believe cruising will recover for a very, very long time.

 

It probably won't recover fully for a really long time.  However, I think they may be selling off the smaller ships that don't have the capacity or even a supply of balconies like their newer ships.  When they first start sailing again, I've read that they MAY reduce their capacity by up to 50% so, it just makes more sense to not use those smaller older ships that really aren't that efficient and require even more maintenance.  They probably have older ventilation systems that aren't that easy or cheap to replace.  They will most likely have to reduce their scheduled cruises and even though there are a lot of people that are ready to cruise right now, I still think there are so many that are nervous about any kind of travel.  

 

[Arizona Wildcat]

5 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

I find it disturbing that CCL is off loading so many ships.  Yes they are older, but six months ago all were considered serviceable.  Doubt they would do this if they thought a vaccine in '21 would quickly lead to recovery for cruise lines.  Instead indicates CCL doesn't believe cruising will recover for a very, very long time.

The article said the ships were sold.  No clarity as if some were sold to subsidiaries or other cruise lines or how many to the breakers.

There have been a large number of new builds in recent years.  Selling older ships that cost more to operate and maintain is good business sense.  RCL corporate has sold off several ships over the last couple years and more lately.  Just not so many at one time.

[Host Anne]

We had so much fun on some of these ships (Sun Princess, HAL Veendam, the Regal Princess sister ship, Crown).  Great cruising memories....same for Celebrity Mercury & Zenith and RCCL Monarch (our first cruise). Would happily go back to those days of cruising.

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

The article said the ships were sold.  No clarity as if some were sold to subsidiaries or other cruise lines or how many to the breakers.

There have been a large number of new builds in recent years.  Selling older ships that cost more to operate and maintain is good business sense.  RCL corporate has sold off several ships over the last couple years and more lately.  Just not so many at one time.

What article?  If Carnival or RCG discloses that they want to sell ships that does not mean buyers with deep pockets and high risk tolerance are out there.  Perhaps a few might step forward after a return to cruising seems possible.

[Arizona Wildcat]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

What article?  If Carnival or RCG discloses that they want to sell ships that does not mean buyers with deep pockets and high risk tolerance are out there.  Perhaps a few might step forward after a return to cruising seems possible.

Here is part the article.  We continue to take aggressive action to emerge a leaner more efficient company. We are accelerating the exit of 18 less efficient ships from our fleet," Carnival Corp. CEO Arnold Donald said in a preliminary filing to the Security and Exchange Commission on Tuesday. "This will generate a 12% reduction in capacity and a structurally lower cost base, while retaining the most cash generative assets in our portfolio."

Not all the ship's have been identified.  One that was mentioned is the Sun Princess.  Built 1990s and recently refurbished.  There certainly will be a shuffling of ships.  Top tier lines to secondary and secondary to the breakers.

The part of the quote that caught my attention was that 18 ships was only 12% of ships for Carnival.  Actually not a huge percentage.

[TeeRick]

26 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Here is part the article.  We continue to take aggressive action to emerge a leaner more efficient company. We are accelerating the exit of 18 less efficient ships from our fleet," Carnival Corp. CEO Arnold Donald said in a preliminary filing to the Security and Exchange Commission on Tuesday. "This will generate a 12% reduction in capacity and a structurally lower cost base, while retaining the most cash generative assets in our portfolio."

Not all the ship's have been identified.  One that was mentioned is the Sun Princess.  Built 1990s and recently refurbished.  There certainly will be a shuffling of ships.  Top tier lines to secondary and secondary to the breakers.

The part of the quote that caught my attention was that 18 ships was only 12% of ships for Carnival.  Actually not a huge percentage.

Thank you.