Another possible CDC no-sail extension?

[JAMESCC]

Keep in mind these people are Captains, and I imagine they have unlimited Masters  license's. If you open the Marine Traffic web site and zoom out on the map of the world.  Every red and green ship symbol represents a vessel that requires a person with that license.  The same holds true for the chief engineer and their staff.
 Now, the hotel staff is a whole different situation.

No, that's definitely true but for Carnival to be losing talent like that is bad. They are losing experienced personnel when new ships are coming.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Lionesss]

1 hour ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

12-15 would be my guess.

 

 

Happy Birthday to me

 

😁

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, JAMESCC said:

Man captains and staff captains, this is scary stuff. They are hanging on by a thread it seems. When you have to lay off Captains and Staff Captains I'd imagine that is last resort and a very bad sign.
The CDC has effectively killed the industry. I know there is a pandemic, I don't deny that and I take it seriously. As I write this I am wearing a face covering but the CDC has killed this industry. If this continues much longer when even the big lines may not exist.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Right off the bat, the CDC isn't killing the cruise industry, the pandemic is. Hopefully the CDC has taken the emotion out of the equation, and basing their decisions on the only thing that matters, public health. The cruise lines aren't the only business hurting, the whole country is, just watch tv or read the papers and magazines. The problem is, as of now there is not set way to treat it or prevent it. I don't see that changing a whole lot until a effective vaccine, or medical breakthrough shows up. Maybe this would be enough to allow the world to get back to some sort of normalcy, including cruising.

In the meantime there are two choices, either wear your mask, wash your hands and social distance. The other choice is to whine, ignore the steps in the last sentence, and watch the whole industry crash and burn.

 

[JAMESCC]

Right off the bat, the CDC isn't killing the cruise industry, the pandemic is. Hopefully the CDC has taken the emotion out of the equation, and basing their decisions on the only thing that matters, public health. The cruise lines aren't the only business hurting, the whole country is, just watch tv or read the papers and magazines. The problem is, as of now there is not set way to treat it or prevent it. I don't see that changing a whole lot until a effective vaccine, or medical breakthrough shows up. Maybe this would be enough to allow the world to get back to some sort of normalcy, including cruising.

In the meantime there are two choices, either wear your mask, wash your hands and social distance. The other choice is to whine, ignore the steps in the last sentence, and watch the whole industry crash and burn.

 

Gee, yet somehow Europe and in particular Germany has limited cruises sailing. The CDC is doing everything it can to kill this industry. They, in my estimation have not worked at all with the cruise lines to do anything. They are leaving these companies hanging in the wind and out to dry. CLIA and the big lines have already signaled that this is the case.

I'm not saying start up tomorrow, 400 ships on the move but this BS with input from anyone and how too start cruises safely in the CDC website is just lost time and and waste of time. To me it'smore dragging their feet.

Are you telling me cruise lines couldn't by now be sailing 50% capacity just to private islands right now? They couldn't do that safety from Florida? At least work out bugs in the system? Work on procedures, see what works, see what doesn't, see what needs work? I mean this is as blatant as it gets what they are doing.

 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Baron Barracuda]

Even if sailing was expected to resume tomorrow believe these layoffs would still take place.  CCL is divesting 18 ships and postponing delivery of new builds.  This leaves them with an excess of ships officers.  So unless quite a few are expected to retire soon layoffs are a logical consequence.

[Milwaukee Eight]

deleted 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[JAMESCC]

No. COVID19 is killing the Cruise industry. 
 
M8

I disagree and agree. Yes, the overall issue here is Covid-19. But are telling me cruise lines couldn't be sailing to private islands right now on short 4-5 day cruises? How is that Germany can and other European cities can?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, JAMESCC said:

I disagree and agree. Yes, the overall issue here is Covid-19. But are telling me cruise lines couldn't be sailing to private islands right now on short 4-5 day cruises? How is that Germany can and other European cities can?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

I deleted that post as I misread the post I quoted but I will accept 50% agreement on my blunder. 😁

 

M8

[time4u2go]

12 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

I disagree and agree. Yes, the overall issue here is Covid-19. But are telling me cruise lines couldn't be sailing to private islands right now on short 4-5 day cruises? How is that Germany can and other European cities can?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Are the private islands allowing visitors from the US right now?

[JAMESCC]

Are the private islands allowing visitors from the US right now?

I'm sure there bahamas would allow cruises to the private islands. The point is this is the perfect time to test out all these protocols. See what works and what doesn't. See what needs work and learn about what to do going forward.
3-5 night cause 50-70% capacity can be done. The CDC in my opinion is dragging their feet and in my opinion deliberately killing this industry.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[BND]

1 minute ago, JAMESCC said:

I'm sure there bahamas would allow cruises to the private islands. The point is this is the perfect time to test out all these protocols. See what works and what doesn't. See what needs work and learn about what to do going forward.
3-5 night cause 50-70% capacity can be done. The CDC in my opinion is dragging their feet and in my opinion deliberately killing this industry.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Not sure about the private islands/beaches.  RCI employees locals to help staff the private islands so the local gov would have to be onboard with their locals being possibly exposed too.  

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, BND said:

Not sure about the private islands/beaches.  RCI employees locals to help staff the private islands so the local gov would have to be onboard with their locals being possibly exposed too.  

Good point.  Currently, Bahamas is requiring a 14-day quarantine for international visitors.

[A&L_Ont]

21 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

I'm sure there bahamas would allow cruises to the private islands. The point is this is the perfect time to test out all these protocols. See what works and what doesn't. See what needs work and learn about what to do going forward.
3-5 night cause 50-70% capacity can be done. The CDC in my opinion is dragging their feet and in my opinion deliberately killing this industry.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Currently the Bahamas is closed so it is a non-issue.
 

As for the protocols put forth by RC and NCL, they have yet to be approved as they just went forward today.  The lines also know that they are not getting approval in a quick fashion. They have prepared for it as best they can by selling ships, and keeping ships staffed as low as possible. 
 

The CDC doesn’t care if it is killing the cruise industry.  They also don’t care about economic or emotional impacts of the industry being shutdown. The CDC really is to protect the citizens of the US. One can dislike their approach but it isn’t going to change a thing. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

12-15 would be my guess.

 

I'm with you. Gotta save Christmas 

[livingonthebeach]

Not sure of the accuracy of the following article and I certainly don't agree with the way these groups are trying to sink the cruise industry by using Covid-19 to further their agenda.  If true that 50,000 people are telling the CDC to extend the no-sail order it certainly can't be good for a Nov 1st restart. 

 

"50,000+ People Tell CDC to Extend No-Sail Order for Cruise Ships

Stand.earth, Friends of the Earth US submit petition during U.S. federal agency’s comment period.

 

WASHINGTON - More than 50,000 people have signed a petition led by environmental advocacy organizations Stand.earth and Friends of the Earth US calling for the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to extend its no-sail order for cruise ships, due to the risk that resumed operations would pose to public health and the environment. The organizations submitted the petition signed by just over 28,400 supporters from Stand.earth and 23,400 from Friends of the Earth US to the CDC on Monday, September 21, 2020, which is the closing date for the federal agency’s comment period on whether cruise lines can safely operate in the COVID-19 era.

 

Over the weekend, the cruise industry caught wind of the organizing efforts by advocacy organizations and community groups, with Royal Caribbean CEO Michael Bayley posting on his Facebook page urging cruise fans to submit comments after an “anti-cruise group has lobbied their supporters to comment.”

“For decades, the foreign-owned cruise industry has put its bottom line before the health of people and the planet. Its recent failure to cease operations when it was clear that its vessels posed a serious risk to public health contributed to the spread of the COVID-19 virus around the world, and placed an enormous burden on the CDC and the Coast Guard to respond to onboard outbreaks. As recent outbreaks on board Norwegian Cruise Line vessels demonstrate, there is no such thing as safe cruising during a pandemic," said Kendra Ulrich, Shipping Campaigns Director at Stand.earth.

 

“The cruise industry has known for years that viruses spread easily on board their ships, just as they know how much pollution they generate. As long as the cruise industry refuses to implement changes needed to protect its passengers, our environment, and local communities, the industry should not restart cruising,” said Marcie Keever, Oceans & Vessels Program Director at Friends of the Earth US.

A cohort of environmental nonprofits and community organizations also submitted a 12-page technical letter to the CDC outlining multiple concerns regarding cruise ships and COVID-19. Read the letter here.

The letter is signed by advocacy organizations and community groups Stand.earth, Friends of the Earth US, Pacific Environment, International Cruise Victims, Global Cruise Activist Network, reEarth (Bahamas), Seattle Cruise Control (Washington), Alliance for Responsible Tourism (Maine), Charleston Communities for Cruise Control (South Carolina), and Protect our Future (Cayman Islands). Their concerns include:

• The COVID-19 pandemic is not the first event in which cruise ships have been a vector of disease, with dozens of norovirus and other outbreaks documented over the past two decades.
• Cruise ships are conduits for pandemic due to the confined spaces on board, high population densities, and unsanitary environments. Multiple studies have also shown that on-board air conditioning systems played a role in the spread of COVID-19.
• Cruise ships burn dirty fuel that contributes to air pollution, which in addition to the climate implications, is now even more salient given that studies have shown that exposure to air pollution increases the risk of severe respiratory illness.
• Cruise companies’ irresponsible choice to continue to sail during the pandemic, which played an active role in the global spread COVID-19, is just the latest example in a long history of refusing to take the actions necessary to protect public health.
• Cruise companies have shown they do not have effective protocols in place to repatriate crew members, which would subject cruise staff to further risks if another COVID-19 outbreak occurs.
• On-board infections can spread COVID-19 to port communities and overwhelm local health infrastructure in port cities.
• Cruise companies flag vessels in foreign countries in order to take advantage of weak public health, environment, and labor laws. The sector’s global lobbying efforts to reopen during the COVID-19 pandemic is just another example of their goal to continue operating in a regulatory environment with minimal oversight.
• Cruise companies have a track record of breaking environmental laws even when held to higher standards, as demonstrated by Carnival Corporation’s multiple felony convictions.
• Cruise companies have historically been highly profitable worldwide, and the industry’s business model demonstrates that irresponsible corporate actors maximize profit over public health.

In addition to submitting the technical letter and petition, Stand.earth also organized 2,039 of its supporters to submit comments to the CDC encouraging an extension of the no-sail order. 

 

“Our small town of Hoonah, Alaska, has no respirators, and is only a small clinic, staffed with elders, mothers with infants, and grandmothers. If an emergency arises and we are in need of a hospital or critical care, we have to take a helicopter or an emergency plane ride out of the village, IF the weather allows. ... If a cruise ship came into our town and potentially had COVID-19, our town of 800 would suffer just like our Alaska Native people did when westward expansion reached Alaska, dying of diseases and illnesses in which they had no cure, and were never exposed to because of the remoteness. I demand that the CDC extends its no sail order until after this pandemic because cruise ships are a vector for disease, not only COVID-19, but many other illnesses,” wrote Rebekah Sawers, an Alaskan Native Yupik living with her family in Hoonah, Alaska. 

Hoonah is a largely Tlingit community located near Glacier Bay National Park, where in 2018 Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line committed a felony when it illegally dumped untreated greywater and failed to report it to the Coast Guard.

"Until the pandemic is actually under control, traveling via cruise ship will be extremely hazardous. The people on the ship — staff and customers alike — will be at severe risk. ... As a retired Public Health Nurse, I am encouraging the strictest measures to protect us all rather than encourage the spread of this virus,” wrote another commenter.

"Cruise ships are already hazardous to the environment and need tighter regulations. They pollute everywhere they sail. Sailing in the midst of a pandemic is not responsible behavior. It is the behavior of greedy people who worship money," wrote another commenter.

"Dead people make lousy customers," wrote another commenter.

As of 12:00 p.m. PT Monday, September 21, only 3,584 of the 10,539 commentssubmitted were approved and posted on the CDC’s comment portal. There appears to be a lag between when the CDC receives and posts comments — in some cases up to two weeks — so it is unknown how many additional comments the CDC will publish after the deadline."

[Sunshine3601]

29 minutes ago, BND said:

Not sure about the private islands/beaches.  RCI employees locals to help staff the private islands so the local gov would have to be onboard with their locals being possibly exposed too.  

IMO they cannot have the locals working at the private islands as they go back and forth by ferries, etc. 

If the plan is to cruise to private islands only, then the workers should only be the crew that has been thru their quarantine and testing periods with no issues.      Cannot have locals go back and forth everyday have contact passengers if they want to keep us in a "bubble".

Based on the health plan they prepared, I don't see anything about that.    We just don't know yet. 

[JAMESCC]

Currently the Bahamas is closed so it is a non-issue.
 
As for the protocols put forth by RC and NCL, they have yet to be approved as they just went forward today.  The lines also know that they are not getting approval in a quick fashion. They have prepared for it as best they can by selling ships, and keeping ships staffed as low as possible. 
 
The CDC doesn’t care if it is killing the cruise industry.  They also don’t care about economic or emotional impacts of the industry being shutdown. The CDC really is to protect the citizens of the US. One can dislike their approach but it isn’t going to change a thing. 

In normal times yes I would agree the CDC is there to protect people. Look at what is going on over there? They are being overruled by political figures right now. They just published something that was then taken back because of politics.
Also these protocols could have been put forth months ago and have been worked out. What is going on is total BS. Planes are flying all over the place with no restrictions whatsoever. Middle seat, no distancing, and I don't even think face coverings are mandated. The airlines are doing that on their own.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[A&L_Ont]

23 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

In normal times yes I would agree the CDC is there to protect people. Look at what is going on over there? They are being overruled by political figures right now. They just published something that was then taken back because of politics.
Also these protocols could have been put forth months ago and have been worked out. What is going on is total BS.
 

How are they not protecting the people, even though politicians are meddling?  As for protocols the Chief said there must/has to be a window for the public to respond.  That can not be skipped is what he said. The CDC also has to review the submissions before they can make their decision.  
 

The lines will not staff ships in advance of getting the go ahead. They are watching their funds and will not going to waste money getting crew back until they know they can sail. This will not be a quick process. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[JAMESCC]

How are they not protecting the people, even though politicians are meddling?  As for protocols the Chief said there must/has to be a window for the public to respond.  That can not be skipped is what he said. The CDC also has to review the submissions before they can make their decision.  
 
The lines will not staff ships in advance of getting the go ahead. They are watching their funds and will not going to waste money getting crew back until they know they can sail. This will not be a quick process. 

The CDC has been overruled time and time again lately. Guidelines for schools to reopen, testing, this latest fiasco just yesterday. I do not trust anything coming from the CDC nor the FDA right now and I do not know when I ever will again. Politics has invaded the CDC and that could not be more dangerous.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[A&L_Ont]

The CDC has not been overruled in their decisions regarding cruises though. In fact the POM and the cruise industry would be very happy if the politicians overruled the CDC and allowed them to set sail.  Would you approve of this, if it happened?
 

I’m curious, will you never fly or cruise again because of this loss of faith in the powers that oversee both industries?

[JAMESCC]

The CDC has not been overruled in their decisions regarding cruises though. In fact the POM and the cruise industry would be very happy if the politicians overruled the CDC and allowed them to set sail.  Would you approve of this, if it happened?
 
I’m curious, will you never fly or cruise again because of this loss of faith in the powers that oversee both industries?

I have never flown before, severe fear of flying. I would sail tomorrow but not because the CDC said we could or it was safe. I'd sail because these cruise lines do not want to screw things up worse things already are.
The CDC at the moment is a joke. The FDA even worse. Stunts like the BS "plasma" treatment are ruining people's faith in something that is very dangerous for people to lose faith in.
The little stunt saying get ready for a vaccine just 2 days before the election is ruining my faith in the FDA.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[A&L_Ont]

17 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

The little stunt saying get ready for a vaccine just 2 days before the election is ruining my faith in the FDA.

I saw the head of CDC say under oath, that a vaccine for the masses would not be available until the 2021 Q2/Q3. I have seen someone else say the CDC was mistaken, but they were not under oath. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[JAMESCC]

I saw the head of CDC say under oath, that a vaccine for the masses would not be available until the 2021 Q2. I have seen someone else say the CDC was mistaken, but I they were not under oath. 

The FDA told states to "be ready for a vaccine on November 2nd". That's a joke, that is pure politics, plain and simple and period.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[A&L_Ont]

1 minute ago, JAMESCC said:

The FDA told states to "be ready for a vaccine on November 2nd". That's a joke, that is pure politics, plain and simple and period.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

100% agree. Those who believe it are just hearing what they want to.  Politics are involved in everything.  That was the main issue for the POM, and the cruise industry when they held their video conference.  They were hoping to get political traction and they did. 
 

All we can hope for is the industry put forward their best plan, and it gets approved in a timely manner. 

[firefly333]

4 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

The FDA told states to "be ready for a vaccine on November 2nd". That's a joke, that is pure politics, plain and simple and period.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Do you work for the FDA?  How do you know when it will be approved?  Esp? Please let me in on your secret source. I sure would like to know when it will be approved. I have elderly parents I want to protect. 

 

If you actually have information, please post it. I'm really wanting to know.