Key West Votes to Ban Mega Ships

[clo]

50 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

That was the city council vote and the Mayor...   Crime is between 186% and 128% above national norms  according to Seattle Police  Dept as of 11-25-2020 at 5 pm....The Police Chief resigned saying the future was impossible...   Maybe you should  get informed to the extent you always claim others are misinformed.

This is what you wrote:

"they are trying to get rid of the police it will be fun. ...  not me"

 

Transferring funding to groups other than law enforcement who are better trained to work on certain problems is what they and other cities are talking about. And btw it's mostly you that doesn't hesitate to distort what's actually happened.

 

And that's the last I have to say on this subject.

[Aloha 1]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:43 PM, Hawaiidan said:

Same  deal in Hawaii.... where Aloha is only  practiced by Time Share salesmen Bar Tenders and front desk clerks......     The real Hawaii  is not a fan of anyone but themselves....  Sad but true of many places

You're right Dan. The culture started changing in the mid 2000's with the "haoli out" movement. Having lived on Maui for a number of years I saw it first hand. Sad to say many of the wonderful people who make their living from tourism are out of work and money. Many of the restaurants and businesses we used to frequent are either out of business or close to it. Moral: Be careful what you wish for, KW.

[Tranquility Base]

I must admit that I have a different view than  some of the posters on this thread.

 

Not having several thousand day trippers into a relatively small location would make it more likely I would visit on a longer land vacation.

 

Does this mean I am a hypocrite on this matter ? 

Yes, but I can live with that.

 

I must admit to breathing a sigh of relief,  rounding the lighthouse and seeing the anchorage at Portofino empty of another cruise ship.

You already know it will be busy with other visitors, let alone adding 2 cruise ships.

 

On a couple of Alaskan cruises I have had flexibility on dates.

I certainly do check on the ports schedule to help decide which one to take.

2 ships in port verses 4 ships is one of the  factors for me.

 

I would expect this 2020 & 2021 pause in travel will allow a number of destinations to reassess the type of tourism they wish to promote.

I don't begrudge them for doing so.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Tranquility Base

[clo]

59 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

I don't begrudge them for doing so.

 

Nor do I. There seem to be more than a few people whining/pouting but it's not in their backyard. When we were in Dubrovnik (not on a cruise) the crowds ruined it for us and others. UNESCO had even threatened to revoke their heritage status. (I understand changes have been made.) And as others have pointed out, the merchants get little. MAYBE lunch although I wouldn't be surprised if people went back to the ship. A drink perhaps. A magnet or something similar. Compare that to hotel, three meals a day, bars, shopping, etc.

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

When we were in Dubrovnik (not on a cruise) the crowds ruined it for us and others. 

Were you a permanent resident of Dubrovnik or one of the crowds of tourists ruining life for the residents of Dubrovnik?  If I objected to tourists, I'd be more likely to be objecting to the people who stay for days and buy up all of the eggs and milk or evening restaurant tables that I need rather than tourists who come in for a few hours and leave.  You know what they say about visitors and fish...

[clo]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Were you a permanent resident of Dubrovnik or one of the crowds of tourists ruining life for the residents of Dubrovnik?  If I objected to tourists, I'd be more likely to be objecting to the people who stay for days and buy up all of the eggs and milk or evening restaurant tables that I need rather than tourists who come in for a few hours and leave.  You know what they say about visitors and fish...

Yes, dear.

[Smokeyham]

Interesting reading the comments here.   I wonder if this might be a beneficial move in the long run.  Here are some possibilities.

 

1. Smaller ships docking will bring in fewer passengers, but the individual passengers might be a bit wealthier (given that they are passengers on smaller ships, that typically cost more) and so will want to use higher end services so local tours and activities can charge more and provide a more personalized experience.
2. The improved experience of passengers might tempt them to return for a land-based vacation in the future.
3. Docking fees might be increased to offset revenue losses from larger ships not being able to dock.  Combine this with decreased costs for less garbage collection, and other infrastructure impacts and  it might be a wash.

From the cruise lines' perspective they can promote their access to Key West as a positive for traveling on their smaller ships, and also promote the better experience that passengers will have as a result of fewer visitors.  

[ORV]

A year ago today I was in Key West on a stop on a Riviera cruise. It was the third time I've been there. The first time was on my very first cruise back in 97 or so. The stop last year was, at this point, my last cruise. Hmm?

 

I drove down from Miami after another cruise I was on a few years ago for a couple of days. I'd always heard people say that taking the drive down from Miami to KW is something everyone should do. Once was enough for me, if I ever go back it'll be either by flying(doubtful) or on a cruise. 

[Kate-AHF]

13 minutes ago, ORV said:

I'd always heard people say that taking the drive down from Miami to KW is something everyone should do. Once was enough for me, if I ever go back it'll be either by flying(doubtful) or on a cruise. 

 

I'd heard the same thing, which is why we did it.  Once was more than enough.  I was bored to tears during that drive.

[pinotlover]

12 minutes ago, Kate-AHF said:

 

I'd heard the same thing, which is why we did it.  Once was more than enough.  I was bored to tears during that drive.

Get caught behind an accident or breakdown on one of the long bridges and sit for hours. The aura of that drive disappears quickly. 🥵

[Daniel A]

Bye Bye Conch Republic, you're on your own (which is what you always wanted anyway.)

[RJB]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:37 PM, Kate-AHF said:

 

I'd heard the same thing, which is why we did it.  Once was more than enough.  I was bored to tears during that drive.

It was a wonderful drive over the ocean and the keys.  They say one of the top drives in the country.  Sorry you did not like it. Top down, just great.  

[ORV]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

It was a wonderful drive over the ocean and the keys.  They say one of the top drives in the country.  Sorry you did not like it. Top down, just great.  

I love the ocean and looking at it, but I'm with Kate, bored real fast. I did enjoy our couple of days in Key West though. Blue Heaven for breakfast was fantastic. 

[Daniel A]

Key West’s recently enacted Cruise Ship ban may be in Jeopardy if Florida legislation passes. 

 

“Republican Sen. Jim Boyd from the state’s west coast on Jan. 5 had filed Senate Bill 426, which, . . .  if passed, would void Key West’s voter-approved changes to the city charter requiring the city to significantly reduce the size and capacity of cruise ships that visit the island.”

 

The bills state, in part, “a local government may not restrict or regulate commerce in the seaports of this state … including, but not limited to, regulating or restricting a vessel’s type or size, source or type of cargo, or number, origin or nationality of passengers. All such matters are expressly preempted to the state. … Any provision of a county or municipal charter, ordinance, resolution, regulation, or policy that is preempted by this act and that existed before, on, or after the effective date of this act is void.”

 

There are matching bills in Florida’s House and Senate.  The bill becomes law if it passes both houses of the Florida legislature.

[jagoffee]

18 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Key West’s recently enacted Cruise Ship ban may be in Jeopardy if Florida legislation passes. 

 

“Republican Sen. Jim Boyd from the state’s west coast on Jan. 5 had filed Senate Bill 426, which, . . .  if passed, would void Key West’s voter-approved changes to the city charter requiring the city to significantly reduce the size and capacity of cruise ships that visit the island.”

 

The bills state, in part, “a local government may not restrict or regulate commerce in the seaports of this state … including, but not limited to, regulating or restricting a vessel’s type or size, source or type of cargo, or number, origin or nationality of passengers. All such matters are expressly preempted to the state. … Any provision of a county or municipal charter, ordinance, resolution, regulation, or policy that is preempted by this act and that existed before, on, or after the effective date of this act is void.”

 

There are matching bills in Florida’s House and Senate.  The bill becomes law if it passes both houses of the Florida legislature.

Interesting.  It does not need to be approved by the Governor as well?  I did read the article that you posted and it does mention the Governor’s approval being required.

Edited January 25, 2021 by jagoffee

[Daniel A]

51 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Interesting.  It does not need to be approved by the Governor as well?  I did read the article that you posted and it does mention the Governor’s approval being required.

I only saw where the article only mentioned about both houses of the legislature but you're probably correct.  

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Interesting.  It does not need to be approved by the Governor as well?  I did read the article that you posted and it does mention the Governor’s approval being required.

You got me interested so I looked it up.  Here is what I discovered:  In Florida, the bill does not require the signature of the governor.  If he signs it, it becomes law.  If he doesn't sign it and allows it to sit on his desk, it becomes law.  If he actively vetoes the bill then it goes back to both houses for a 2/3 override in each house.  In the Federal System and probably other states, when the chief executive (president or governor) allows the bill to sit on his desk without a signature, it becomes a 'pocket veto.'  Apparently under Florida's system the opposite happens and the unsigned bill becomes law.

[marieps]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

You got me interested so I looked it up.  Here is what I discovered:  In Florida, the bill does not require the signature of the governor.  If he signs it, it becomes law.  If he doesn't sign it and allows it to sit on his desk, it becomes law.  If he actively vetoes the bill then it goes back to both houses for a 2/3 override in each house.  In the Federal System and probably other states, when the chief executive (president or governor) allows the bill to sit on his desk without a signature, it becomes a 'pocket veto.'  Apparently under Florida's system the opposite happens and the unsigned bill becomes law.

That's very interesting.  I have KW as a stop on a cruise in 2022.  It's not a big deal to go there,  but I would be happy to spend a few dollars and get out of the locals' hair. 

[bbwex]

A lot of the comments on this thread are interesting, but I have to agree with those that feel that a small town has the right to limit sudden influxes of visitors.  Much as we all spend a good bit to go on a cruise, the truth is that cruise passengers spend very little when visiting towns -- generally less than $20 if my memory serves.  On the other hand, bus passengers spend much more money.  We spend our summers in southern Maine, and while ships coming into Portland may send 25 or 30 buses to our small town square, they just make the  place congested and don't add to the economy -- if they pay port fees those go to Portland. 

 

While I was in the Navy, I wondered why we never visited American Samoa, while we visited many foreign ports.  After I got out, and saw on a television show that they have about 3,000 visitors a year in Pago Pago, and we would have dumped almost that many in an instant.  We might have spent money, and I think sailors on liberty might spend more than cruise passengers, but we would have totally swamped the place.

 

Let's not get all impressed with some inalienable rights, when people in towns have some rights too.  They have made a decision, they think it is right, and let's leave them be.  The big cruise ships are not going to anchor just to block their view!  Everyone relax a tad.

[Daniel A]

27 minutes ago, bbwex said:

A lot of the comments on this thread are interesting, but I have to agree with those that feel that a small town has the right to limit sudden influxes of visitors. 

So, then you wouldn't mind if you drove the 225 miles to Gettysburg with your kids only to be told you can't come in because there are already 500 tourists who got there before you?  Does it work any better for the family taking the trip from Duluth to Gettysburg?

 

Part of the problem is that they're not limiting the number of tourists in KW, they're limiting the type of tourists.  Time will tell what will happen.

 

Does Pittsburgh have the right to limit the number of students allowed in? 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Daniel A

[clo]

1 hour ago, bbwex said:

Let's not get all impressed with some inalienable rights, when people in towns have some rights too.  They have made a decision, they think it is right, and let's leave them be.  The big cruise ships are not going to anchor just to block their view!  Everyone relax a tad.

THIS^

[clo]

54 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Part of the problem is that they're not limiting the number of tourists in KW, they're limiting the type of tourists. 

They're limiting the type of SHIPS!

[pinotlover]

Actually it’s a bit more complicated. Who built and paid for the port? The City or State ? Was the port built to increase tourism dollars for the entire area, not just the town itself?

 

Unless there is a by pass, towns aren’t allowed to ban semi trailers on State roads through the middle of town. 
 

I believe in local control, but the capacity of a town to shut down economic activity for all areas around it is bigger than the town. 

[pinotlover]

From the Port of Key West’s website:

 

“The Port of Key West is a major economic engine for the City and local businesses, resulting in an economic impact of $85 million per year. The port provides 1250 direct and indirect jobs to 25,000 citizens, while contributing 15 percent of the City’s total revenue.

 

These passengers are introduced to the unique charm of Key West, without contributing vehicular traffic to the overburdened US-1 corridor. “

 

How many of those 1250 people with direct jobs or 25,000 indirect got to vote in that election? 
 

Are those citizens prepared to make up most of that $85 million in lost revenue in new taxes? 
 

Perhaps the State is trying to protect a lot of affected citizens that don’t live within the City limits. 

[nocl]

4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

So, then you wouldn't mind if you drove the 225 miles to Gettysburg with your kids only to be told you can't come in because there are already 500 tourists who got there before you?  Does it work any better for the family taking the trip from Duluth to Gettysburg?

 

Part of the problem is that they're not limiting the number of tourists in KW, they're limiting the type of tourists.  Time will tell what will happen.

 

Does Pittsburgh have the right to limit the number of students allowed in? 

There are quite a few places that do limit the number of visitors or the type of transport.  Several of the national parks do not allow you to drive in for example, others have quotas.  If you hike in many areas in the west there are quotas on the trails.

 

Not uncommon to have some limits on the number of people or type of transport to preserve an area.  In Key West there is concern over the impact of cruise ships on the waters around the island.

 

Also the limits in Key West is not on people, but a limit on the type of transportation that can visit an area.  For example there is no restriction if the cruise line wants to bus people from Miami to Key West, only on the size and type of ship that can dock at the city.