Key West Votes to Ban Mega Ships

[RJB]

3 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Exactly.  It is like Barcelona.  They want you to stay for a week at an expensive hotel, dine at their good restaurants,  and shop their luxury stores. Quality of guests over quantity.  I have always wanted to explore Key West, so I might have to do it by getting an hotel room instead.  

We have done it both ways and each has its good points and some not so good.  In Key West mostly good both ways. 

[Hawaiidan]

I strongly suspect that land travelers are by far a larger economic plus than cruise passengers and that they spend far more  per person.   Ships are in for maybe 8 hours... Land passengers are in for 24  way more revenue  potential..... Besides , a land visitor  will probably stay a minimum of 2 or more days

[Shawnino]

21 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Exactly.  It is like Barcelona.  They want you to stay for a week at an expensive hotel, dine at their good restaurants,  and shop their luxury stores. Quality of guests over quantity.  I have always wanted to explore Key West, so I might have to do it by getting an hotel room instead.  

 

Barcelona pays ships to homeport there. Many cities do. (People fly in early, etc.)

The last time I was there (2019) they were also still paying ships to call there. I have no idea if this will be the case going forward but I haven't heard of a change..

 

The media is what it is (generally lousy). They can always find some Grumpy Gus locals who don't want tourists (and not just in Catalunya). The city and regional government seem to still be all-in on cruise ships, despite the odd dissenting voice. The separatist minority is particularly hard core about tourism being the way forward, in all its forms.  

 

[ORV]

5 hours ago, Shawnino said:

 

Barcelona pays ships to homeport there. Many cities do. (People fly in early, etc.)

The last time I was there (2019) they were also still paying ships to call there.

Not that I doubt you, but do you have a source for this information? Or are you just repeating something you've heard?

[clo]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:18 AM, Shawnino said:

 

Barcelona pays ships to homeport there. Many cities do. (People fly in early, etc.)

The last time I was there (2019) they were also still paying ships to call there. I have no idea if this will be the case going forward but I haven't heard of a change..

 

The media is what it is (generally lousy). They can always find some Grumpy Gus locals who don't want tourists (and not just in Catalunya). The city and regional government seem to still be all-in on cruise ships, despite the odd dissenting voice. The separatist minority is particularly hard core about tourism being the way forward, in all its forms.  

 

And Barcelona is way bigger with far more things to do than KW. Or, say, Dubrovnik.

[CintiPam]

I have read that the Barcelona tourism people really have promoted the homeport option in the last five years to get some of that major pre-and post-cruise tourist money. But I do not know precisely what incentives it has supplied to cruise companies. 

[RJB]

18 minutes ago, CintiPam said:

I have read that the Barcelona tourism people really have promoted the homeport option in the last five years to get some of that major pre-and post-cruise tourist money. But I do not know precisely what incentives it has supplied to cruise companies. 

Key West can never be a home port so this answer makes no sense at all.  Key West is just another shopping street.  Like it a lot but if we miss it no big deal.  Better to stay a few days.  

[CintiPam]

4 hours ago, RJB said:

Key West can never be a home port so this answer makes no sense at all.  Key West is just another shopping street.  Like it a lot but if we miss it no big deal.  Better to stay a few days.  

RJB, I simply was responding to the last three postings regarding Barcelona becoming more of a home port.

 

Regarding Key West, I only have visited for one port day, but I am a history buff and found both the Truman White House snd Hemingway’s home fascinating places to visit. Not just another shopping street in my opinion. But certainly no Barcelona, where I have stayed for several weeks and not yet run out of places to visit! 😉

Edited November 16, 2020 by CintiPam

[RJB]

15 hours ago, CintiPam said:

RJB, I simply was responding to the last three postings regarding Barcelona becoming more of a home port.

 

Regarding Key West, I only have visited for one port day, but I am a history buff and found both the Truman White House snd Hemingway’s home fascinating places to visit. Not just another shopping street in my opinion. But certainly no Barcelona, where I have stayed for several weeks and not yet run out of places to visit! 😉

Not saying anything bad about Key West but after an hour or so in Truman's winter white house just shopping.  Hemingway's house in Cuba much better if we ever get the chance to see it again.

[Hlitner]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:10 PM, RJB said:

Not saying anything bad about Key West but after an hour or so in Truman's winter white house just shopping.  Hemingway's house in Cuba much better if we ever get the chance to see it again.

Those of us who  vacation in KW do not routinely visit places like Truman's house or Hemingway's House.  I did see those places over twenty years ago, but have been going back to KW year after year because we simply enjoy the town, the local boutiques, the atmosphere, restaurants and even one particular night club/bar/restaurant generally not known to cruisers.  I have posted a lot about this KW issue (with ships) because it is a port with which I am very familiar as both a frequent cruiser and also a land visitor.  We can say the same about Venice, Italy and also Puerto Vallarta, Mexico....all places we know well as both cruisers and land travelers.  We will again be in KW in a few days and will not even go near the Truman House and may not even shop :).  And perhaps that says a lot about the difference between those who visit during a daytime port visit and those who spend days and nights in the town.   It also makes it very easy for me to understand why an overwhelming majority of local voters did not support the idea of large cruise ships.

 

What is funny about this KW issue is that just today we were looking at the itinerary of an Oceania cruise we have booked for late in 2021 and noticed, for the first time, that it stops at KW.  Both DW and I had a good laugh and wondered if we would even bother getting off the ship in that port.  And yet, in a few days we will fly to Florida, rent a car, drive hours down to the Keys, and spend several days in KW.  Go figure.  But suffice it to say that what one experiences as a cruiser is quite different then what experiences as a multi-day (or multi-week) visitor.

 

Hank

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Those of us who  vacation in KW do not routinely visit places like Truman's house or Hemingway's House.  I did see those places over twenty years ago, but have been going back to KW year after year because we simply enjoy the town, the local boutiques, the atmosphere, restaurants and even one particular night club/bar/restaurant generally not known to cruisers.  I have posted a lot about this KW issue (with ships) because it is a port with which I am very familiar as both a frequent cruiser and also a land visitor.  We can say the same about Venice, Italy and also Puerto Vallarta, Mexico....all places we know well as both cruisers and land travelers.  We will again be in KW in a few days and will not even go near the Truman House and may not even shop :).  And perhaps that says a lot about the difference between those who visit during a daytime port visit and those who spend days and nights in the town.   It also makes it very easy for me to understand why an overwhelming majority of local voters did not support the idea of large cruise ships.

 

What is funny about this KW issue is that just today we were looking at the itinerary of an Oceania cruise we have booked for late in 2021 and noticed, for the first time, that it stops at KW.  Both DW and I had a good laugh and wondered if we would even bother getting off the ship in that port.  And yet, in a few days we will fly to Florida, rent a car, drive hours down to the Keys, and spend several days in KW.  Go figure.  But suffice it to say that what one experiences as a cruiser is quite different then what experiences as a multi-day (or multi-week) visitor.

 

Hank

When I go to a buffet, I like to put a bite of various entrees being offered on my plate.  After tasting them, I decide which entrée I want and go back to the buffet for a full portion of that entrée.  I do cruises and bus tours with the same approach.  I prefer to have a local tour guide introduce me to a number of localities and I get to see which ones I want to return to and spend more time.  On a cruise I saw enough of Pompeii, Rome, Pisa, Monte Carlo, and Cannes, but I definitely want to return to Provence and Florence for a longer stay. 

 

I think Key West voters are being short sighted, but the locals are acting consistently with most other tourism spots,  They like the dollars but hate the tourists, and that doesn't matter whether they came on a ship or a bus or a car or plane. If you're not a local, they smile with their hand out but distain your presence.  Unfortunately, that's human nature.

[clo]

13 hours ago, Hlitner said:

But suffice it to say that what one experiences as a cruiser is quite different then what experiences as a multi-day (or multi-week) visitor.

 

I'm sure you know that you're not unique. At all. I would guess most of us feel/think that way about one or more places. For us it would be San Francisco and to a lesser extent Seattle and lesser than that NYC. Having lived more than 20 years in SF I shudder to think that people actually visit some of those touristy places...that pretty much only accommodate and exist for tourists.

[pinotlover]

Words have meanings! I think the interesting conjecture here lies within the title. Key West bans “ Mega” Ships! Interesting how overall small of ships were now defined as mega! 
 

 

[Daniel A]

17 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Words have meanings! I think the interesting conjecture here lies within the title. Key West bans “ Mega” Ships! Interesting how overall small of ships were now defined as mega! 

Unfortunately, words no longer have meanings.  Nowadays people assign whatever meaning they want to words.  The misappropriation of words to concepts that bear no resemblance to the original meanings of words has been going on for years.

[Classiccruiser777]

On 11/10/2020 at 8:16 PM, pinotlover said:

Any other US ports not want visitors? Please speak up before we finalize reservations.

Many in Seattle don’t want cruise ships even though the cruise industry contributes approximately $500,000,000 per year to the local economy. Seattle seems to be engaged in a massive economic suicide movement. Very sad.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Many in Seattle don’t want cruise ships even though the cruise industry contributes approximately $500,000,000 per year to the local economy. Seattle seems to be engaged in a massive economic suicide movement. Very sad.

But IMO Seattle is different than, say, Key West. KW is a multi-hour stop whereas Seattle is a beginning/ending port. I'd think there's not even remotely a comparison.

[KirkNC]

Plus there are some cruise lines with lots of Seattle employees.  I know Holland America is there.

[RJB]

12 hours ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Many in Seattle don’t want cruise ships even though the cruise industry contributes approximately $500,000,000 per year to the local economy. Seattle seems to be engaged in a massive economic suicide movement. Very sad.

It is their problem.  Plenty of other places to go.  Will not miss it at all. 

[Dwtlion]

Bar Harbor, ME is making noises about limiting cruise day trippers after seeing what happened in KW.

[pinotlover]

One cannot forget the other major economic contributor besides the passengers. Docking fees!

 

A couple of years back during his noon briefing, Captain Max gave us a long laundry list of docking fees for all of the cities we were visiting. Then what it costs to visit some of the larger ports! The numbers he gave us was for the Nautica, a R ship. Fees are far higher as ship sizes increase. The numbers are huge!

 

These towns and cities are making a lot of money off the cruise industry whether the passengers spend a dime or not! I have no problem bypassing towns that don’t want visitors. 
 

I used to spend a couple days every 2-3 months in Aspen on business. After work, particularly during mud season, I’d go into the Cantina for drinks and appetizers. There was always an assortment of locals there constantly complaining about the tourists and how they were screwing everything up. Almost everyone of their jobs and livelihood depended upon the tourist industry! Those clowns needed a year without tourists to clean out them out!

[jagoffee]

The residents of Key West have the right to make this decision.  No doubt that multiple large cruise ships change the downtown area dynamics during the day.  The residents will need to make up the lost tax revenue and they are likely to see a drop in community services.  They will just need to operate with less and pay more.  I would guess that some local activists assured them that this would not be the case.

 

 I am not convinced that they had all the necessary facts, but neither do I. 

I suspect in five years, they may realize that they made the wrong decision.  
 

I have visited with the Navy, on several cruises, a couple of driving day trips from Miami, and a week long stay.  Interesting place, but I do not think I will ever return.  I just hope that Federal Dollars are not spent to support them, when things get bad.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, jagoffee said:

The residents of Key West have the right to make this decision.  

I’m not convinced that the residents of one municipality have to right to block US citizens from entering the municipality.  I’m not a lawyer but it seems to me that it would be a violation of the Interstate Commerce Clause of the US Constitution.  

 

“Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3, of the Constitution empowers Congress "to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among several States, and with the Indian Tribes." The term commerce as used in the Constitution means business or commercial exchanges in any and all of its forms between citizens of different states, including purely social communications between citizens of different states by telegraph, telephone, or radio, and the mere passage of persons from one state to another for either business or pleasure”

 

Interstate commerce clause legal definition of Interstate commerce clause (thefreedictionary.com)

 

Unfortunately, the new charter amendments in Key West probably cannot be challenged in court until somebody is harmed by the change.  With The CDC blocking any cruises to anywhere, it will be a while before any US citizens are blocked from entering the City of Key West.  I think that’s when it will end up in court.

 

As I said, I’m not a lawyer,  maybe one or two might want to address this with more expertise.

 

Sorry about the formatting, for some reason, I can't get the quote to format properly.☹️

Edited November 25, 2020 by Daniel A

[Hawaiidan]

On 11/23/2020 at 5:28 AM, Daniel A said:

When I go to a buffet, I like to put a bite of various entrees being offered on my plate.  After tasting them, I decide which entrée I want and go back to the buffet for a full portion of that entrée.  I do cruises and bus tours with the same approach.  I prefer to have a local tour guide introduce me to a number of localities and I get to see which ones I want to return to and spend more time.  On a cruise I saw enough of Pompeii, Rome, Pisa, Monte Carlo, and Cannes, but I definitely want to return to Provence and Florence for a longer stay. 

 

I think Key West voters are being short sighted, but the locals are acting consistently with most other tourism spots,  They like the dollars but hate the tourists, and that doesn't matter whether they came on a ship or a bus or a car or plane. If you're not a local, they smile with their hand out but distain your presence.  Unfortunately, that's human nature.

Same  deal in Hawaii.... where Aloha is only  practiced by Time Share salesmen Bar Tenders and front desk clerks......     The real Hawaii  is not a fan of anyone but themselves....  Sad but true of many places

[Silver Sweethearts]

27 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Same  deal in Hawaii.... where Aloha is only  practiced by Time Share salesmen Bar Tenders and front desk clerks.

Since you are not a time share salesman, bartender or front desk clerk, then how would you know what Aloha is?

[pinotlover]

50 minutes ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

Since you are not a time share salesman, bartender or front desk clerk, then how would you know what Aloha is?

I believe he lived in Hawaii for quite awhile.