CDC requested to reinstate NSO

[time4u2go]

6 hours ago, nelblu said:

Not to joke about people dying, but hundreds were dying prior to Covid.  Does anyone know what the average mortality rate in the US prior and during Covid. 

Here is some information about that.  Basically, as of early October (when these writeups were released), about 200,000 - 300,000 more people in the U. S. had died in 2020 than would normally be expected:

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771761

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm?s_cid=mm6942e2_w

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Edited November 14, 2020 by time4u2go

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

If the number was one, why would they require a number of cabins for isolation of infected people and a number of cabins for quarantine to be set aside?  If they wanted to say it would be one case, they could easily have said that, and left off a whole lot of verbiage.  Just like they do for the VSP, they are setting out a incremental response.

As to the number of cabins, as a ship with 53 passengers proved when 7 had the virus before the ship made it back to port, imagine what a ship of 1,000 passengers could have.  Using the same percentage that’s 132 passengers in just a few days.

 

What do you think you think a ship with CV onboard will do, continue the cruise?

Edited November 14, 2020 by KirkNC

[yogimax]

3 hours ago, atgood said:

 

I think some would like the CV to drag out for at least another year.  

 

That's crazy!  Maybe a political statement?

[Ashland]

5 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

I don't know much about the California congress woman behind this but I do know what drives the Connecticut senator.  

 

Richard Blumenthal, the CT senator hails from the same town as George Smith, who went overboard while on the Brilliance of The Seas in the Mediterranean on his honeymoon.  The way Royal handled the case did not sit well with Smith's family.  The senator joined George Smith's family in a crusade in Congress to require ships to implement additional safety measures. 

 

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/blumenthal-family-of-george-smith-iv-urge-federal-action-to-require-cruise-ships-to-implement-life-saving-technology-critical-passenger-protections

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_George_Smith

Nothing would sit well with Smith's family and their loss...but to assume/suggest a senator would hold a grudge against an entire cruise industry is just over the top !!!!

Come on...you have more to contribute than this conspiracy theory !!!!

[yogimax]

1 hour ago, mworkman said:

Well based on this article along with sources documented, there's been no increase of deaths as the medial would like you to believe.

 

The United States is back up to over 1000 deaths a day.

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

As to the number of cabins, as a ship with 53 passengers proved when 7 had the virus before the ship made it back to port, imagine what a ship of 1,000 passengers could have.  Using the same percentage that’s 132 passengers in just a few days.

 

What do you think you think a ship with CV onboard will do, continue the cruise?

Well, what was the response when the first person reported illness, or tested positive?  What was the contact tracing, how soon did they quarantine?  How soon did they quarantine those who had close contact with these people?  Without knowing any of these facts, nor what the exact protocols onboard were, extrapolating from a small data set (and one which had an even smaller data set, those who traveled together and were infected) to a larger data set can lead to very serious flaws in logic.

 

As the CDC says, cases presenting symptoms, or testing positive need to be isolated, and those who have had close contact need to be quarantined, and then you continue to monitor the situation, and if it evolves where you reach a "trigger number", then you shut the whole thing down.  This is like saying that if there is one case in your town, you need to lock the whole town down.  Is there something about cruising, other than prolonged close contact, that makes it different from any other activity?  Is there nothing in the CDC requirements (and were those the ones followed on this ship?  I don't think so, if there were no masks or social distancing) that might mitigate the close contact aspect of cruising?

 

Would I cruise now?  No.  Would I if the CDC requirements are all met?  That would depend on the results of the mock cruises.  And, make no mistake, there will not be one mock cruise per ship, there will be several for each ship, to generate a data base, and to provide training, and the ability to modify requirements as problems are found in the mock cruises.  But, is it the CDC's intention to quarantine an entire ship over one case?  No, or they would have simply said so, and dropped all the talk of "adequate onboard health care facilities", etc, etc.

[livingonthebeach]

9 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Nothing would sit well with Smith's family and their loss...but to assume/suggest a senator would hold a grudge against an entire cruise industry is just over the top !!!!

Come on...you have more to contribute than this conspiracy theory !!!!

There are no conspiracy theories in what I posted.  Just google Senator Blumenthal and cruise safety legislation regarding Smith family.

 

I happened to be living in that same town in CT when this occurred and have met all parties involved so I do have first hand knowledge.  
 

There is no need for snarky comments.  

[nelblu]

1 hour ago, mworkman said:

Here is just a quick link showing daily mortality rate in the US...with Covid & influenza...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109281/covid-19-daily-deaths-compared-to-all-causes/

Unless I'm missing something, it's not telling me anything.  Someone was referring to some statistics that the average weekly deaths are lower as compared to 2019.  A reason is the possibility of lower deaths by auto, etc. due to less driving.  Also, of interest the lower number of cancer and other disease deaths because of Covid.

 

Also, there's another link posted by NOCL that compares data to an expected amount.  That is like comparing not to the previous year, but to a pre-determined or budgeted amount.  And you know how right budgets are.

 

To confuse the issue, I googled and found this article:

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/covid_problems_cdcs_method_of_estimating_expected_deaths_and_excess_deaths_is_misleading.html

 

Please don't flame me out.

1 hour ago, nocl said:

here is an example that references aan academic study. will try and find the actual study tomorrow. you can find a number just do google search US death rate 2019 vs 2020

 

https://www.hcplive.com/view/excess-deaths-us-increased-covid-19

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by nelblu

[Ashland]

Just now, livingonthebeach said:

There are no conspiracy theories in what I posted.  Just google Senator Blumenthal and cruise safety legislation regarding Smith family.

 

I happened to be living in that same town in CT when this occurred and have met all parties involved so I do have first hand knowledge.  
 

There is no need for snarky comments.  

There was no need to post this at all...What good did you think it would accomplish in adding to the conversation? Of course the senator would have done what he could for his constituents. But to assume that would carry over as grudge is far fetched.

[livingonthebeach]

9 minutes ago, Ashland said:

There was no need to post this at all...What good did you think it would accomplish in adding to the conversation? Of course the senator would have done what he could for his constituents. But to assume that would carry over as grudge is far fetched.

There is a big difference between carrying a grudge and using an event to advance a political agenda.  Anyone who has studied politics understands this.  
 

The thread is about two politicians urging the CDC to reinstate the NSO.  History of prior legislative attempts does provide valuable insights as to the motivations of those involved. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, latserrof said:

The pandemic has been politicized from the outset, from the highest level. And the science clearly says "don't cruise."

I don't know that the science says that.  If it were a cruise of only healthy folks under the age of 40 on a cruise to nowhere or to private islands I think those would be supported by the science.  The science does not support the odd inclusion of cruise ships under 250 sailing, that the science doesn't support yet they are allowed to sail. It all depends on what you think  public health administration is supposed accomplish and that is a political question.  Is it complete prevention or is it to maintain the integrity of the health care infrastructure? A question I am only asking rhetorically.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Mary229

[time4u2go]

35 minutes ago, nelblu said:

To confuse the issue, I googled and found this article:

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/covid_problems_cdcs_method_of_estimating_expected_deaths_and_excess_deaths_is_misleading.html

I'm not sure that American Thinker is exactly an impartial source.

[ptod]

24 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Of course the senator would have done what he could for his constituents. But to assume that would carry over as grudge is far fetched.

 

Had you lived in CT while Blumenthal was attorney general, you may have another take on the man.

[voyager70]

10 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I'm not sure that American Thinker is exactly an impartial source.

 

Nor is any "news" network in the US 

[A&L_Ont]

5 hours ago, atgood said:

The people we know who’ve had it recovered in a week (or less), and stayed home for another week as a precaution.

I know people that have recovered with no issues, one who is still having cognitive issues from July and another person who died from it. It effects everyone differently.

 

Quote

I think some would like the CV to drag out for at least another year.  

I am certainly not one of those.  I take responsibility for myself but I sure wish a few others would do the same for themselves. If not this could last another year. 

 

3 hours ago, travelhound said:

Thankfully, with a successful vaccine to be distributed soon, we can start to flatten the fear 🙂 

I like that expression.  I’m going to borrow it.

Edited November 14, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[Ashland]

54 minutes ago, ptod said:

 

Had you lived in CT while Blumenthal was attorney general, you may have another take on the man.

And had you lived in CA you might have another view of Matsui and her views...No grudge holding there.

[travelhound]

11 minutes ago, Ashland said:

And had you lived in CA you might have another view of Matsui and her views...No grudge holding there.

I think everyone is tired of the political hyperbole.  After the vaccine starts distribution, all of this political rhetoric will be meaningless.  

[Ashland]

6 minutes ago, travelhound said:

I think everyone is tired of the political hyperbole.  After the vaccine starts distribution, all of this political rhetoric will be meaningless.  

Agree...some just seem to bring it into every conversation in some way. But the reference to and bringing up the Smith case was not necessary at all.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[livingonthebeach]

In case anyone is interested, here is the press release that includes the letter to the CDC.  It also contains a link to the bicameral, bipartisan legislation cosponsored by U.S. Senator Edward J. Markey (D-MA) in the Senate and U.S. Representatives Jeff Fortenberry (R-NE), Anna Eshoo (D-CA), and John Garamendi (D-CA) in the House.

 

https://matsui.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2017

 

[udamom]

10 hours ago, nelblu said:

Not to joke about people dying, but hundreds were dying prior to Covid.  Does anyone know what the average mortality rate in the US prior and during Covid. 

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771761

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

 

From the AMA and CDC

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

For those interested in history and legislative efforts, despite the fact that a few do not deem this information "necessary", both Matsui and Blumenthal got involved in cruise safety legislation due to one of their constituents experiencing a mishap on a cruise ship.  

 

 

[travelhound]

1 hour ago, Ashland said:

Agree...some just seem to bring it into every conversation in some way. But the reference to and bringing up the Smith case was not necessary at all.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yup, just to be clear, I was not referring to you, I was referring to the politicians that are trying to politicize the virus, like Blumenthal and Matsui.   

[Tippyton]

4 hours ago, Ashland said:

Nothing would sit well with Smith's family and their loss...but to assume/suggest a senator would hold a grudge against an entire cruise industry is just over the top !!!!

Come on...you have more to contribute than this conspiracy theory !!!!

Yes they would hold a grudge.  They are  the epitome of self-indulgence.

[Tippyton]

6 hours ago, howiefrommd said:

Interesting to read your post. Was just talking to a colleague who is an ICU Intensivist (I knew him as a resident) and he is in Arlington, Texas (which I think is by Dallas) and he said that what he is experiencing in the ICUs (with COVID patients) made his time in Vietnam look like a joke.  
 

The death, desperation, lack of physicians and nurses is terrifying to him. He said in a few more weeks, they will need morgue trailers. 

Masks work and we need more government involvement in our lives..../s.

 

I am a COVID survivor in an elevated risk group, no issues.  The virus is taking those who are sick, some who don't even realize it.  Our dependence on fast food, artificial food additives, and high fructose corn syrup is coming back to haunt us.  Notice they don't tell you who is dying...

 

Don't let government cripple yet another industry for "the greater good".

[HaveWeMetYet]

11 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Masks work and we need more government involvement in our lives..../s.

 

I am a COVID survivor in an elevated risk group, no issues.  The virus is taking those who are sick, some who don't even realize it.  Our dependence on fast food, artificial food additives, and high fructose corn syrup is coming back to haunt us.  Notice they don't tell you who is dying...

 

Don't let government cripple yet another industry for "the greater good".

Here is New Mexico Covid deaths on Friday. 22 set a record I believe, and their health backgrounds.

Notice a trend?

 

The Department of Health on Friday reported twenty-two additional deaths in New Mexico related to COVID-19:

• A female in her 60s from Bernalillo County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 70s from Bernalillo County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A second female in her 70s from Bernalillo County. The individual had underlying conditions and was a resident of The Rio Las Estancias in Albuquerque.
•  A female in her 80s from Bernalillo County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A second female in her 80s from Bernalillo County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A male in his 60s from Bernalillo County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 80s from Chaves County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 50s from Cibola County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A male in his 40s from Cibola County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A male in his 50s in Cibola County. The individual was hospitalized and was an inmate at Northwest New Mexico Correctional Center in Cibola County.
• A female in her 40s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 50s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 80s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 90s from Doña Ana County. The individual had underlying conditions was a resident of Calibre Sagecrest Nursing and Rehabilitation Center in Las Cruces facility.
• A male in his 80s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions. The individual was a resident of the The Arbors of Del Rey in Las Cruces facility.
• A second male in his 80s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions. The individual was a resident of the The Arbors of Del Rey in Las Cruces facility.
• A male in his 90s from Doña Ana County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A male in his 60s from Eddy County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A male in his 90s from Eddy County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 50s from Otero County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A second female in her 50s from Otero County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.
• A female in her 40s from Socorro County. The individual was hospitalized and had underlying conditions.