CDC requested to reinstate NSO

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, Tippyton said:

 

 

"Associative ties only justify a government's giving some priority to its own citizens, not absolute priority," Emanuel wrote with his co-authors."

 

I didnt see who wrote previous comments but yes one of the new committee formed by new president elect has published giving it away to other countries before we are vaccinated. Had me scratching my head. Let's get us safe before we worry about giving it away. 

 

Hopefully they will keep enough for us to get vaccinated. But I read that as well. 

[atgood]

13 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I didnt see who wrote previous comments but yes one of the new committee formed by new president elect has published giving it away to other countries before we are vaccinated. Had me scratching my head. Let's get us safe before we worry about giving it away. 

 

Hopefully they will keep enough for us to get vaccinated. But I read that as well. 

The same person also said in summary, if you’re over 75, you already lived your useful life.  

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, atgood said:

The same person also said in summary, if you’re over 75, you already lived your useful life.  

Oh yea I forgot about that. Yes. Lol I think he is 63. 

 

No reason to vaccinate those over 75. Lololol. My parents need to suck it up, they lived long and useful lives, time for them to just go away peacefully. 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Oh yea I forgot about that. Yes. Lol I think he is 63. 

 

No reason to vaccinate those over 75. Lololol. My parents need to suck it up, they lived long and useful lives, time for them to just go away peacefully. 

 

I find it interesting that a lot of the same crew who screamed that having universal health care would lead to "death panels" are now, in effect, setting up death panels all on their own. 

[voyager70]

I see politics are alive and well on CC.  Sadly

 

[cruisemom42]

16 hours ago, Heymarco said:

480,000 deaths in US from smoking last year, yet we still provide freedom to do so. Why are we being so much much more restrictive with Covid? Everyone has the freedom to stay home. Just saying!

 

You do realize that what you've posted are reverse examples, right?

 

Smoking is only allowed in places where it will not impact anyone other than the smoker -- there is practically no restaurant, bar, office building, government building or hotel (or cruise ship) that allows smoking at will. The government doesn't tell non-smoking citizens to stay at home and let others smoke at will.

 

So how could the same be instituted for COVID? Hmmm....it wouldn't be those who safely abide by the rules (wear masks, avoid social gatherings) who would be told to stay home.

 

Like second-hand smoke, risky health behaviors that impact others and should be limited.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

I didnt see who wrote previous comments but yes one of the new committee formed by new president elect has published giving it away to other countries before we are vaccinated. Had me scratching my head. Let's get us safe before we worry about giving it away. 

 

Hopefully they will keep enough for us to get vaccinated. But I read that as well. 

Global World Order. Lol

[yogimax]

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

Us freedom lovers let the individual determine his/her own risk tolerance.  Which is why we dont like the government stifling the industry which we all love.

So, in your mind, if you accept the risk of driving at 100 mph while texting and drinking a fifth of bourbon, does that make it fine?  Or does the government you seem to hate so much have a responsibility to stop such behavior to protect your life as well as the lives of others?

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, yogimax said:

So, in your mind, if you accept the risk of driving at 100 mph while texting and drinking a fifth of bourbon, does that make it fine?  Or does the government you seem to hate so much have a responsibility to stop such behavior to protect your life as well as the lives of others?

Conflating again.  Going on a cruise isn't against the law.  Not wearing a mask isn't against the law.  Getting sick with ANY communicable disease isn't against the law.  Going to the store when you have the flu isn't against the law.  Giving somebody the flu isnt against the law. 

 

All of these are being treated otherwise.  CDC get out of the way.

[Ashland]

3 hours ago, voyager70 said:

I see politics are alive and well on CC.  Sadly

 

Some are so distraught and have to interject it anyway they can.

Time to move on and work together.

[zalusky]

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

Conflating again.  Going on a cruise isn't against the law.  Not wearing a mask isn't against the law.  Getting sick with ANY communicable disease isn't against the law.  Going to the store when you have the flu isn't against the law.  Giving somebody the flu isnt against the law. 

 

All of these are being treated otherwise.  CDC get out of the way.

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-it-a-crime-to-intentionally-get-someone-sick.html

[What We Found Travelling]

Just out of curiosity.... as my previous posts have somehow vanished, what side of politics are the two politicians from?  I couldn’t be bothered reading this entire thread again.

[firefly333]

4 hours ago, RKHOOKER said:

Just out of curiosity.... as my previous posts have somehow vanished, what side of politics are the two politicians from?  I couldn’t be bothered reading this entire thread again.

Lol probably the same sides as you have, uk or many countries.. known as liberal or conservative.

 

Some of us just want to be allowed to cruise but cdc is in charge. Supposedly neutral. It's the cdc I object to, putting up lots of hoops to jump thru for cruiselines to start again. Some here say they are just protecting us, others like me say let people choose. I'm planning on getting vaccine before I cruise. I plan to cruise safely. First doses might start coming out by the end of december and maybe end this crazy talk. Lol I wouldnt drive drunk 100 mph, but I hope to cruise. 

 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Some here say they are just protecting us, others like me say let people choose.

The hoops that the cruise lines have to jump through are not to protect you, but to protect others who you may contact after the cruise.  You can choose to cruise or not, those who you may contact, and may infect, don't get to choose.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The hoops that the cruise lines have to jump through are not to protect you, but to protect others who you may contact after the cruise.  You can choose to cruise or not, those who you may contact, and may infect, don't get to choose.

Look at previous posts, I plan on cruising vaccinated.. 

 

You took one post and then say I'm going to infect people afterwards?  I'm not cruising until april 25th and if the cdc is still stopping cruises there may not be cruises to cruise on as the cruiselines will eventually be facing bankruptcy. Be careful what you wish for.

 

If as a senior by april 25th I dont have a chance to get vaccinated then the news is wrong on the roll out of vaccinations (again as a senior the vaccine should be available to seniors per the news before general population). I wouldnt be spreading it at home. I wear a mask and social distance. I moved my feb cruises to 2022 as I could see cutting it too short of a time to get vaccinated.

 

Just flinging accusations that I'll infect people .. I've respected your ship knowledge in the past. Find someone else to say they will infect people at home. You know nothing of me. Dont make assumptions.

 

I actually dont think cruiselines can operate safely yet. That's why I moved my feb cruise to 2022. I'm saying I dont want the cdc to go too far. Younger people who are willing to follow the rules should be able to once safety protocols in place.

 

At some pt life has to continue. Those of us who are older can continue sheltering in place until the vaccine is out. 

 

Please dont accuse people unless you know how they live and if they are wearing masks and otherwise keeping to themselves. I wouldnt be spreading it.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by firefly333

[alfaeric]

16 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Nope...Zeke and co. are the ones for universal health care and are also the ones setting up the death panels - which is really what universal health care is.  

 

Us freedom lovers let the individual determine his/her own risk tolerance.  Which is why we dont like the government stifling the industry which we all love.

Interesting way of putting it.  Last time I checked, for my healthcare, I don't actually have the freedom to go to any doctor for any reason at any time.  I have a specific list of doctors I can go to, what ER's that are preferred (lower cost), and what procedures are covered.

 

Let alone the idea that that your personal "freedoms" and choices put other people at risk.  It's not all about you.

 

I'm sure I love cruising just as much as you do, but thanks to people like you, there's no way we are stepping on a ship in the near future.

[firefly333]

11 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

 

 

I'm sure I love cruising just as much as you do, but thanks to people like you, there's no way we are stepping on a ship in the near future.

What's with all the crazy personal accusations?  You dont know that poster I presume or if hes wearing a mask and sheltering in place or not.

 

Let's not get personal. 

[Tippyton]

52 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Interesting way of putting it.  Last time I checked, for my healthcare, I don't actually have the freedom to go to any doctor for any reason at any time.  I have a specific list of doctors I can go to, what ER's that are preferred (lower cost), and what procedures are covered.

 

Let alone the idea that that your personal "freedoms" and choices put other people at risk.  It's not all about you.

 

I'm sure I love cruising just as much as you do, but thanks to people like you, there's no way we are stepping on a ship in the near future.

You know nothing about me so please keep your "people like you" comments to yourself.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Just flinging accusations that I'll infect people .. I've respected your ship knowledge in the past. Find someone else to say they will infect people at home. You know nothing of me. Dont make assumptions.

I am using the plural and general "you", not you in particular, any more than the CDC looks at "you" in particular.  Apologies if you took this personally.  I posit the CDC's position, not my own, based on the mandate that the CDC operates under.  As I've said many times since this pandemic started, everything the CDC does is not designed primarily to protect the health of cruise ship passengers, it is to protect the health of the general US population from potentially ill cruise ship passengers.  I don't see the CDC requirements as "going too far", any more than I see the CDC's VSP "going too far" for ship sanitation.  Again, regardless of whether the cruisers are young or old, fit or not, and choose to cruise, the requirements set forth by the CDC are not to protect them, but to protect others whom they may come into contact with after the cruise.

 

Legally, the CDC does not have any jurisdiction over what a foreign flag ship does when it is outside the US.  This applies to both the VSP (a minor concern in today's situation) and the CSO.  It is when the ship wishes to enter the US that the CDC jurisdiction takes over.  So, if the ship does not wish to follow the VSP, the ship can still enter the US, but it can expect a full sanitation inspection, along with health interviews with passengers and crew before "pratique", or a clean bill of health is issued and the ship cleared for disembarkation.  The choice is up to the cruise line, whether it wants to follow the VSP at all times and have a couple of random inspections per year, or have a delaying inspection, every time it comes back to the US.  I'm sure that if and when the requirements outlined in the CSO become permanent federal regulations, that there will be the option for ships who do not follow the requirements, to not receive "pratique" until they have undergone a 14 day quarantine.  Again, it is the cruise line's choice.

Edited November 16, 2020 by chengkp75

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I am using the plural and general "you", not you in particular, any more than the CDC looks at "you" in particular.  Apologies if you took this personally.  I posit the CDC's position, not my own, based on the mandate that the CDC operates under.  As I've said many times since this pandemic started, everything the CDC does is not designed primarily to protect the health of cruise ship passengers, it is to protect the health of the general US population from potentially ill cruise ship passengers.  I don't see the CDC requirements as "going too far", any more than I see the CDC's VSP "going too far" for ship sanitation.  Again, regardless of whether the cruisers are young or old, fit or not, and choose to cruise, the requirements set forth by the CDC are not to protect them, but to protect others whom they may come into contact with after the cruise.

I’ve been saying this from the beginning but you put it in writing so much better. 
 

Thanks

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

I am using the plural and general "you", not you in particular, any more than the CDC looks at "you" in particular.  Apologies if you took this personally.  I posit the CDC's position, not my own, based on the mandate that the CDC operates under.  As I've said many times since this pandemic started, everything the CDC does is not designed primarily to protect the health of cruise ship passengers, it is to protect the health of the general US population from potentially ill cruise ship passengers.  I don't see the CDC requirements as "going too far", any more than I see the CDC's VSP "going too far" for ship sanitation.  Again, regardless of whether the cruisers are young or old, fit or not, and choose to cruise, the requirements set forth by the CDC are not to protect them, but to protect others whom they may come into contact with after the cruise.

And again I think you need to take the vaccines coming into consideration.

 

News out this morning of modera at almost 95% effectiveness. News due out about the other one sometime after dec 1st, results with the 2nd, booster shot. So far the 90% is after just the first shot.

 

By the time cruiselines can jump thru all those hoops, many will be vaccinated. Cruises will be changed forever, and hopefully safer, but I expect many changes to stay in place after this, even when its safer. But I think the coming vaccines will somewhat change what's safe too.

 

The no sail order should not be extended. Which is what this thread is about. 

 

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

And again I think you need to take the vaccines coming into consideration.

 

News out this morning of modera at almost 95% effectiveness. News due out about the other one sometime after dec 1st, results with the 2nd, booster shot. So far the 90% is after just the first shot.

 

By the time cruiselines can jump thru all those hoops, many will be vaccinated. Cruises will be changed forever, and hopefully safer, but I expect many changes to stay in place after this, even when its safer. But I think the coming vaccines will somewhat change what's safe too.

 

The no sail order should not be extended. Which is what this thread is about. 

 

 

The CDC can always adjust the NSO or the current order in place if/when the vaccine becomes available for us. It’s possible they may require it to board. Why would they change now?
 

M8

[Ourusualbeach]

4 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

By the time cruiselines can jump thru all those hoops,

The CDC has left the order open so that it can be changed, both for better or worse. 

[alfaeric]

31 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

You know nothing about me so please keep your "people like you" comments to yourself.

If you say so, but you are the one advocating for "personal freedom" that puts others at risk.

 

If you can sleep at night knowing that your concepts put other people at risk, that's up to you.  But it's comments like yours that makes me not cruise.  That's a fact.  If you can't deal with that comment, that's not my problem.

[alfaeric]

14 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

And again I think you need to take the vaccines coming into consideration.

 

 

The no sail order should not be extended. Which is what this thread is about. 

 

 

When?  Immediately or once the vaccine is out?

 

It's going to be a while until vaccines become truly available to people, and months after that until enough people get it so that it's effective for the people who refuse to get it- which is when the spread of the virus will finally stop.

 

Things don't happen in an instant.