PhillyFan33579 Posted November 19, 2020 #101 Share Posted November 19, 2020 10 hours ago, ray98 said: Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension. The charade is the ever evolving response that isn't working. We locked down, we wore masks, we shut down to the point many small businesses and entire industries are being destroyed. Yet, here we are again with another spike as bad as the first proving none of those tactics work. It is a community spread virus and we can't outsmart it. I will never understand destroying our economy, destroying the lives of millions of people who are now unemployed, etc. over a virus that has a fatality rate around 2 percent. I understand the seriousness of this virus but I also understand we have to learn to live with this virus. Fortunately I live in Florida where our governor understands shutting down the state does more harm than good. Our state has been open for a month now and our COVID-19 numbers are not significantly worse than any other state with numerous restrictions (that continue to grow) in place. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted November 19, 2020 #102 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, ontheweb said: Well, it might depend on how many new names there are. Or how about the "cruise line once known as Carnival", and the same for other new names. And having fun in these stressful times is important for maintaining one's mental health. All so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyFan33579 Posted November 19, 2020 #103 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, skridge said: One thing all of these cruise companies have going for them is the creditors really don't want to own a bunch of billion dollar boats. When you repossess a house you can just resell it and get some of your money back. Not much of a market for billion dollar cruise ships. They would get pennies on the dollar and take a serious bath on it. I agree with you. I was just conveying the point that bankruptcy is not a simple solution and creditors have the right to seize assets. It’s highly unlikely, but a creditor could seize all of Carnival’s ships and start their own cruise line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skridge Posted November 19, 2020 #104 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, PhillyFan33579 said: I agree with you. I was just conveying the point that bankruptcy is not a simple solution and creditors have the right to seize assets. It’s highly unlikely, but a creditor could seize all of Carnival’s ships and start their own cruise line. I don't think Bank of America knows much about running a cruise line. Before some know it all comes in and says B of A is not a creditor, I was just using that as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyFan33579 Posted November 19, 2020 #105 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said: All good, no bankruptcy for CCL. Agree for now, but at some point even the major cruise lines are going to have serious financial issues if their ships can’t sail. Hopefully vaccine(s) will be available soon that help to contain the spread of this virus. That appears to be the best option on the table right now that will allow cruises to resume from US ports sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkins45 Posted November 19, 2020 #106 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I sort of feel like the real question is which companies will still be in business when we finally start sailing? I have one of the Carnival credit cards and I have enough points saved up for a really nice cruise, but there’s this nagging voice in the back of my head that says I should just use them to pay my bills for a couple of months before Carnival goes belly up and those points mean nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted November 19, 2020 #107 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Elkins45 said: I sort of feel like the real question is which companies will still be in business when we finally start sailing? I have one of the Carnival credit cards and I have enough points saved up for a really nice cruise, but there’s this nagging voice in the back of my head that says I should just use them to pay my bills for a couple of months before Carnival goes belly up and those points mean nothing. Why not use it to pay your bills and put your money that you would have used in a cookie jar for a future cruise? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skridge Posted November 19, 2020 #108 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Elkins45 said: I sort of feel like the real question is which companies will still be in business when we finally start sailing? I have one of the Carnival credit cards and I have enough points saved up for a really nice cruise, but there’s this nagging voice in the back of my head that says I should just use them to pay my bills for a couple of months before Carnival goes belly up and those points mean nothing. Could you use the points to pay some bills and take the money you would have used to pay the bills and put it in a money market until this thing blows over. I guess if the points can only be used to buy a Carnival Cruise you need to pray to whomever it is you pray to that this vaccine works out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkins45 Posted November 19, 2020 #109 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, KirkNC said: Why not use it to pay your bills and put your money that you would have used in a cookie jar for a future cruise? The main reason is that I can get 1.5X value for them if I use them for a Carnival purchase over $1500, meaning $1200 would become $1800 if used to pay for a cruise + excursion instead of $1200 in other spending. It’s sort of a calculated gamble of potential future savings against a lesser amount of “free money” now. Edited November 19, 2020 by Elkins45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted November 19, 2020 #110 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, Elkins45 said: The main reason is that I can get 1.5X value for them if I use them for a Carnival purchase over $1500, meaning $1200 would become $1800 if used to pay for a cruise + excursion instead of $1200 in other spending. Well you know the old saying about a bird in the hand. Realistically I doubt CCL will go bankrupt but they probably will be a significantly different company when this is over. Look at all the debt issued and millions of shares of dilution in equity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skridge Posted November 19, 2020 #111 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Elkins45 said: The main reason is that I can get 1.5X value for them if I use them for a Carnival purchase over $1500, meaning $1200 would become $1800 if used to pay for a cruise + excursion instead of $1200 in other spending. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Is that right? I guess you would have to change it to 1.5 in the bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted November 19, 2020 #112 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, skridge said: A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Is that right? I guess you would have to change it to 1.5 in the bush. There you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkins45 Posted November 19, 2020 #113 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, KirkNC said: Well you know the old saying about a bird in the hand. Realistically I doubt CCL will go bankrupt but they probably will be a significantly different company when this is over. Look at all the debt issued and millions of shares of dilution in equity. Yes, the more I think about it the more the bird in hand looks good. I used to think I was a smart person but as it turns out I was a victim of marketing. The Carnival card gives you 1 “fun point” for every $100 in spending. They signed me up for one when we booked our Alaska cruise and I used it for everything for the next three years to accumulate the points I have now. What’s funny about that is I was previously paying for everything with Discover. I gave up a 3% return for a 1% return. Dumb. Edited November 19, 2020 by Elkins45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted November 19, 2020 #114 Share Posted November 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, skridge said: Could you use the points to pay some bills and take the money you would have used to pay the bills and put it in a money market until this thing blows over. I guess if the points can only be used to buy a Carnival Cruise you need to pray to whomever it is you pray to that this vaccine works out. Two at 95% effectiveness seems pretty close to working out In the interim, they will be testing length of protection so we are covered there also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Dave Posted November 19, 2020 #115 Share Posted November 19, 2020 NCL is pushing that bankruptcy can down the road again. NCLH To Release More Stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare richstowe Posted November 19, 2020 #116 Share Posted November 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, GA Dave said: NCL is pushing that bankruptcy can down the road again. NCLH To Release More Stock Maybe we can double down with some Hertz shares ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted November 19, 2020 #117 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, GA Dave said: NCL is pushing that bankruptcy can down the road again. NCLH To Release More Stock Their position is significantly more precarious than CCL or RCCL. If the cdc recents on the rescission of the no sail order, it could signal a-bankruptcy decision, or something significant like moving the entire fleet out of the control of the cdc (Europe, Far East, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNJCruisers Posted November 19, 2020 #118 Share Posted November 19, 2020 6 hours ago, ontheweb said: Or how about the "cruise line once known as Carnival", and the same for other new names. Another option would be to just have a symbol, similar to "the artist formally known as Prince". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skridge Posted November 19, 2020 #119 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said: Two at 95% effectiveness seems pretty close to working out In the interim, they will be testing length of protection so we are covered there also... This is assuming that Carnival will be able to make it until the vaccine clears things up. I know it is your opinion that Carnival has unlimited money and no matter what happens could never go bankrupt. I just am of the opinion that if it were me I would take the cash and not take my chances. Am I allowed to have an opinion oh great one? I don't think Carnival will go bankrupt in light of the vaccination mentioned above, but I would still take the bird in hand instead of the 1.5% under the bush. At the end of the day, I don't even use credit cards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john91498 Posted November 19, 2020 #120 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Should revisit this in 8 months when Carnival runs out of money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted November 19, 2020 #121 Share Posted November 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said: Another option would be to just have a symbol, similar to "the artist formally known as Prince". Yes, I almost added that to my post that you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNJCruisers Posted November 19, 2020 #122 Share Posted November 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, john91498 said: Should revisit this in 8 months when Carnival runs out of money.. Since Carnival Corporation is at the top of the food chain, if your prognostication comes true, then the industry is dead. On the other hand, if you're a glass is half full person, how about the two 95% positive vaccines allows each cruise line to have a handful of ships sailing by July 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john91498 Posted November 19, 2020 #123 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I meant to say "when Carnival starts to run out of money." They might do another stock offer or try to get another line of credit. At least with that, they can hang on for a little while longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeFromConnecticut Posted November 19, 2020 #124 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 hours ago, richstowe said: Maybe we can double down with some Hertz shares ? The fascinating similarities between so many bankruptcies is the presence of crippling debt ... sometimes from LBOs, but very often from over-compensated executives who simply used the credit card to keep their $$ flowing in until the whole thing collapsed. Sounds mighty familiar to the cruise lines. If they make it out of the pandemic, they'll be saddled with five boatloads of debt. And that cannot be repaid by charging bargain fares mixed with quality service .... expect to pay more & get less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tippyton Posted November 20, 2020 #125 Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 hours ago, jimbo5544 said: Two at 95% effectiveness seems pretty close to working out In the interim, they will be testing length of protection so we are covered there also... WE'RE GOOD! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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