Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations

[cruiseracer]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

There are no guaranties in life. You don't need rigged questions to validate alien ideas. The better questions are what does science say provides the best chance of a successful cruise. People afraid of the vaccine or a little inconvenience can stay home.

The naming of objective questions as "rigged" does not make them so. (Similar to facts vs feelings.) It only exposes your continuing agenda of control with no regard to actual mortality or spread.

 

Speaking of science; let's review the death and sickness rate from second hand smokers: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm

 

Anyone with a mind for death and sickness (especially with children) will recognize the effects from 2nd hand smoke. Children and elderly suffer the most from this choice of others. Why not campaign for the elimination of smoking on ships with the same vigor as covid? Is dead from smoke different from dead from a flu? What is your brand of cigarette?

[cruiseracer]

5 hours ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

To ask for absolutes is not realistic nor reasonable. Death and taxes come to mind (and apparently not everyone is subject to item #2 )!

Tom

Agreed. Absolutes concerning the effectiveness of masks & vaccines would also be included.😉

[Posesmom]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

Indeed, that may play out that way.

 

This might be another way in how the cruise lines could go about it:

 

"The PGA Tour is telling its players they will not have to be tested for the coronavirus if they are vaccinated, and those who aren’t will have to pay for their own tests starting this summer."

 

So if you are not vaccinated, please step over here and pay this fee for that test.  And be prepared to do it again in three/four days, and again when you debark.

 

It might, um, financially incentivize those waffling about getting vaccinated to do so - less out of pocket, less hassle, less time wasted.

Some of us healthy folks....ummm can't be financially incentivized to get vaccinated.  I don't believe I need it, I'm fairly young and in good health.  I had it once and survived just fine.  So yes I am just fine with proving I am negative and if I happen to have covid 19, I'm also fine cancelling and staying home so as not to affect the susceptible to it.  But as a fairly good customer am I comfortable with anyone telling me I have to take an unproven vaccine, no I am not. 

[embarkation75]

42 minutes ago, Posesmom said:

Some of us healthy folks....ummm can't be financially incentivized to get vaccinated.  I don't believe I need it, I'm fairly young and in good health.  I had it once and survived just fine.  So yes I am just fine with proving I am negative and if I happen to have covid 19, I'm also fine cancelling and staying home so as not to affect the susceptible to it.  But as a fairly good customer am I comfortable with anyone telling me I have to take an unproven vaccine, no I am not. 

I'm a healthy individual that took the vaccine (better chance of staying that way by being vaccinated) and what a relief that has been! Glad you at least understand your choice has consequences when it comes to being able to onboard or at least onboard with ease as many don't get it.  I see no path forward for unvaccinated to get on ships without some challenges that could result in being turned away on embarkation day. Not sure if you are even attempting a cruise in the next 12-18 months (probably best to wait until 2023+ in your case) but best of luck with navigating the murky waters of the unvaccinated as I'm glad I don't have to deal with that risk on my cruise $$$ investment.

Edited April 19, 2021 by embarkation75

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

As part of the curriculum, I had to take an ethics course while pursuing my degree. It was somewhat disheartening because I thought ethics should not have to be taught. But, as is proven time and again, there are plenty of people who need such direction. Ethics, as it turned out, is more complex and nuanced than it appears.

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" --- determined individuals can parse out whatever ammunition they require in defense of their beliefs. 

 

 Along those same lines and given the state of, well, EVERYTHING - I'd even welcome required courses in common sense!

 

Tom

[PhillyFan33579]

Considering the CDC likely won’t let cruise ships resume from the US until 2023 if they get their way, the issue of being vaccinated or not will be a moot point. 

[cruiseracer]

3 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

I'm a healthy individual that took the vaccine (and a better shot of staying that way by being vaccinated) and what a relief that has been! Glad you at least understand your choice has consequences when it comes to being able to onboard or at least onboard with ease as many don't get it.  I see no path forward for unvaccinated to get on ships without some challenges that could result in being turned away on embarkation day. Not sure if you are even attempting a cruise in the next 12-18 months (probably best to wait until 2023+ in your case) but best of luck with navigating the murky waters of the unvaccinated as I'm glad don't have to deal with that risk on my cruise $$$ investment.

Thank you for not feeling the need to control Posesmom's decisions. 😉

[cruiseracer]

5 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Along those same lines and given the state of, well, EVERYTHING - I'd even welcome required courses in common sense!

 

Tom

That would be interesting. "Common sense" is of course a subjective topic based on agenda. Agree?

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

3 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

That would be interesting. "Common sense" is of course a subjective topic based on agenda. Agree?

 

In such a course, I'm not even sure how it could be graded. There are talented people who could make a case from A to Z, for better or worse.

 

Tom

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, cruiseracer said:

The naming of objective questions as "rigged" does not make them so. (Similar to facts vs feelings.) It only exposes your continuing agenda of control with no regard to actual mortality or spread.

 

Speaking of science; let's review the death and sickness rate from second hand smokers: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm

 

Anyone with a mind for death and sickness (especially with children) will recognize the effects from 2nd hand smoke. Children and elderly suffer the most from this choice of others. Why not campaign for the elimination of smoking on ships with the same vigor as covid? Is dead from smoke different from dead from a flu? What is your brand of cigarette?

More deflection with smoking crap? What next? Guns? Yes, let's eliminate guns. And no second amendment crap. Well regulated militias do not commit mass murder.

 

The questions are rigged because they are rhetorical not to mention nonsensical. 

[embarkation75]

30 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

Thank you for not feeling the need to control Posesmom's decisions. 😉

It is her right to avoid taking one of the vaccines as much as the cruiselines saying she has to jump through more hoops to onboard. She seems to understand she is risking not only getting on the ship but losing at least a portion of her cruise money along with paying for a test out of her own pocket. Maybe she plans on curtailing activities enough to reduce risk of a positive test. Then again she was pretty adamant about surviving her previous covid experience as maybe that has emboldened her to refuse avoiding risky activities as then she will more likely fall into the camp that is denied boarding. Best of luck to her as I have no problem going on a cruise with folks similar to her since they are going to have a more difficult path getting there anyway.

Edited April 19, 2021 by embarkation75

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

In such a course, I'm not even sure how it could be graded. There are talented people who could make a case from A to Z, for better or worse.

 

Tom

Plus or minus. Give or take 

[BlerkOne]

24 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Considering the CDC likely won’t let cruise ships resume from the US until 2023 if they get their way, the issue of being vaccinated or not will be a moot point. 

Doubtful.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Plus or minus. Give or take 

There are good people on both sides...  😉

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

There are good people on both sides...  😉

Only two sides?

[cruiseracer]

6 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

It is her right to avoid taking one of the vaccines as much as the cruiselines saying she has to jump through more hoops to onboard. She seems to understand she is risking not only getting on the ship but losing not only her cruise money but paying for a test out of her own pocket. Maybe she plans on curtailing activities enough to reduce risk of a positive test. Then again she was pretty adamant about surviving her previous covid experience as maybe that has emboldened her to refuse avoiding risky activities as then she will more likely fall into the camp that is denied boarding. Best of luck to her as I have no problem going on a cruise with folks similar to her since they are going to have a more difficult path getting there anyway.

All of which is her decision and no one else's. 😉

[PhillyFan33579]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Doubtful.

You think US cruising will be suspended even longer or that vaccines will still be an issue?

[mondello]

Everybody just throwing darts here? This is April; May-June already cancelled and July to soon follow. The CSO in effect until Nov. 1. Carnival is perfectly content to sit on their hands for at least 6 more weeks. The vaccination rate will continue to rise until it exceeds between 60-75%; it's just a question if and when it plateaus. Nobody knows what the numbers will be by Memorial Day or the 4th of July. Covid 19 has exposed the worst of us in some people on both sides of any debate. Carnival doesn't want to be the mask police and I'd imagine they have projections of what could possibly go wrong no matter what they do. Not a one of us has a crystal ball and can say with certainty what the situation will be on 5/31 or 7/4.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

8 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Only two sides?

 

Well, there are two sides to a coin, and two sides to our flat Earth, so... 

[embarkation75]

3 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

All of which is her decision and no one else's. 😉

...and also the consequences that come with that choice. We live in a country where too many people think there are no consequences to choices made. She at least seems to understand the consequences as this pushes her light years ahead of many in the anti vaxxer group.

[firefly333]

31 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

That would be interesting. "Common sense" is of course a subjective topic based on agenda. Agree?

Agenda or what someone believes. If it's your belief, I'm not sure agenda is the right word.

 

God will protect me

 

Or my wife (who has major health issues) has not reacted well to vaccines in the past, we woildnt get it. I tried, my last words were maybe get a doctor to give you a 2nd opinion, and I refused to discuss it further. 

 

My experience is you cant change anyones mind. Doesnt matter what you say. I dont think the word agenda is completely right or fair. People have their own reasons.

[embarkation75]

2 minutes ago, mondello said:

Everybody just throwing darts here? This is April; May-June already cancelled and July to soon follow. The CSO in effect until Nov. 1. Carnival is perfectly content to sit on their hands for at least 6 more weeks. The vaccination rate will continue to rise until it exceeds between 60-75%; it's just a question if and when it plateaus. Nobody knows what the numbers will be by Memorial Day or the 4th of July. Covid 19 has exposed the worst of us in some people on both sides of any debate. Carnival doesn't want to be the mask police and I'd imagine they have projections of what could possibly go wrong no matter what they do. Not a one of us has a crystal ball and can say with certainty what the situation will be on 5/31 or 7/4.

True but if you dont think at a minimum  unvaccinated individuals will be required to test for at least the first year after cruises resume, then I've got a cruise ticket for May 1st 2021 on the Mardi Gras to sell you! 😉

[cruiseracer]

15 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

...and also the consequences that come with that choice. We live in a country where too many people think there are no consequences to choices made. She at least seems to understand the consequences as this pushes her light years ahead of many in the anti vaxxer group.

Of course consequences come with all choices. What do you care if someone is a vaxxer or an anti-vaxxer? 

[cruiseracer]

11 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

True but if you dont think at a minimum  unvaccinated individuals will be required to test for at least the first year after cruises resume, then I've got a cruise ticket for May 1st 2021 on the Mardi Gras to sell you! 😉

Why do you care about the decisions of unvaccinated individuals?

[BlerkOne]

23 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Well, there are two sides to a coin, and two sides to our flat Earth, so... 

A coin has an edge it can land on, so at least three? Two sides to a flat earth, but two more to the flat alt-earth?