Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

[Sir PMP]

20 hours ago, Djptcp said:

Arnold Donald's interview in Bloomberg Businessweek this past week:

 

Will you require passengers to be vaccinated, like Norwegian Cruise Line just announced it will?
No, absolutely. We would encourage everyone to get vaccinated, but today vaccines are not accessible to everyone. In some places it is illegal to mandate. And we respect personal choice and personal liberty. So we’ll follow what the regulations are wherever it is.

 

This is such a shortsighted and dangerous decision. He seems to be getting his vaccination information from the Facebook medical school instead of from the CDC scientists and physicians. Words cannot express how disappointed I am with this ludicrous decision. We'll see how he changes his tune when the first Covid outbreak occurs on a Carnival ship.

 

My concern is whether or not Holland America, as part of the Carnival Corporation, can mandate vaccination proof on its own. We have 4 HAL cruises booked beginning Dec. 1st. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens if Carnival begins sailing this summer and there are Covid outbreaks. I wouldn't want to wish it on anyone, but it might be what it takes for the CEO to realize his dangerous mistake. Why is he blind to the other cruise lines that are making vaccination proof a requirement for sailing?

One person comes on board with the virus and the whole ship comes down, time for another CEO..

 

[SeeSun&Sea]

21 hours ago, Djptcp said:

Arnold Donald's interview in Bloomberg Businessweek this past week:

Will you require passengers to be vaccinated, like Norwegian Cruise Line just announced it will?
No, absolutely. We would encourage everyone to get vaccinated, but today vaccines are not accessible to everyone. In some places it is illegal to mandate. And we respect personal choice and personal liberty. So we’ll follow what the regulations are wherever it is.

My interpretation is that the Carnival corporation is not going to waste time or money on verifying vaccination status, even if it is mandated. You have a bubble gum wrapper that says "Vax"? Fine, come aboard as passenger, staff or crew. No Carnival port will waste time or money on checking the status of shore staff. Ship-sponsored excursion... not gonna waste time or money on vax status, cleanliness or anything. If Carnival doesn't want to voluntarily mandate vaccination, they will be slipshod at the best at enforcing it.

[iancal]

No reason to light your hair on fire.

 

Ships are not sailing at the moment, at least not in great numbers.

 

Carnival Corp may not require it but ports stops/countries and /or airlines may require it thus making a Carnival Corp requirement somewhat redundant. 

 

You do not need a visa to sail on a Carnival Corp ship.  But they will insist on you having one if the ship is visiting a port stop/country that requires it.

 

Early days yet.  Wait for it to play out.

Edited April 19, 2021 by iancal

[IPB4IGO]

We will cancel our January 2022 cruises if vaccinations are not required. I have no interest in a cruise that incorporates the precautions necessary to accommodate unvaccinated passengers--masks, roped-off seating, every other chair removed in the Crow's nest, etc.

[iceman93]

2 hours ago, IPB4IGO said:

We will cancel our January 2022 cruises if vaccinations are not required. I have no interest in a cruise that incorporates the precautions necessary to accommodate unvaccinated passengers--masks, roped-off seating, every other chair removed in the Crow's nest, etc.

I'm with you on having no interest in a cruise that requires masks, distancing, etc. but have seen no indication that a vaccination requirement is going to eliminate those things.  To put it more bluntly, I don't care about a vaccination requirement either way but will cancel any cruise that delivers a diminished experience.

[nocl]

57 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

I'm with you on having no interest in a cruise that requires masks, distancing, etc. but have seen no indication that a vaccination requirement is going to eliminate those things.  To put it more bluntly, I don't care about a vaccination requirement either way but will cancel any cruise that delivers a diminished experience.

I expect you can pretty much count on that for another year or so.

[mcrcruiser]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I think many people are jumping the gun.  As I said earlier CCL has made it quite clear they will abide by whatever CDC guidelines that are issued when they are issued.  I would not be cancelling a cruise until we have that information.  The bottom line is what is needed is clarity on what happens if a person gets sick, not whether they are vaccinated or not.  If you are vaccinated that should truly be your only concern, not whether the guy next door is vaccinated.  

The problem there is that a person getting covid  ,the virus can mutate  .Thus ,causing illness even for those vaccinated

[mcrcruiser]

56 minutes ago, nocl said:

I expect you can pretty much count on that for another year or so.

Hope it doesn't last that long  . No mask for us ,vaccinated ship a must  .If these don't exist when we would cruise ,we would cancel 

[Mary229]

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

The problem there is that a person getting covid  ,the virus can mutate  .Thus ,causing illness even for those vaccinated

There are not definitive studies saying that and if that were to be the case individuals and societies would have to make some decisions.  I don't think we can shut down the world for years on end.  Leaders should only operate from proven data not suppositions.

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I'm with you on having no interest in a cruise that requires masks, distancing, etc. but have seen no indication that a vaccination requirement is going to eliminate those things.  To put it more bluntly, I don't care about a vaccination requirement either way but will cancel any cruise that delivers a diminished experience.

What is your plan to return to cruising safely?  It doesn't sound like you believe in any of the main accepted strategies to end the pandemic.

[sfocruiser]

23 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

What is your plan to return to cruising safely?  It doesn't sound like you believe in any of the main accepted strategies to end the pandemic.

 

+1    If the poster insist on their cruise travel experience to be 100% back to pre-covid days then you probably wont be on a ship anytime soon

[Hflors]

I still have until September to cancel my upcoming cruise if ccl does nor require vaccine.  I have no interest in being on a ship where at least the minimum precautions are not being taken.  (all crew and all passengers vaccinated) I also notice that the head of ccl did not outline what the procedures would be, should the ship have an outbreak.  When I book a 7 day cruise I want the precautions in place that ups the odds that stays a 7 day cruise not become a cruise roaming around with sick people looking for a port that allows them to dock.  I know that the vaccines are not 100%, but the odds are much less if everyone is vaccinated than not.  

[iceman93]

10 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

What is your plan to return to cruising safely?  It doesn't sound like you believe in any of the main accepted strategies to end the pandemic.

I don't want to go too far off-topic, but my personal belief is that history will show the way the planet responded to COVID-19 was one of the most colossal blunders and failures of public policy ever.  I was okay with a two-week lockdown to "slow the spread", and could get on board with suggestions to wear a face covering in crowded areas until the vaccine became widely available.

 

At this point we've vaccinated the most vulnerable so it's time to just get back to life.  Yes, some people will catch COVID-19 and some (very, very few) will get pretty sick from it and some (very, very, very few) will still die.  People die every day from all kinds of things, many of which would be preventable if we took draconian measures like we've done with COVID-19.  The risk calculus has shifted to where I almost can't understand states like my own that continue to cling desperately to color-coded restrictions and, even with those projected finally to go away, still expect a mask mandate for the foreseeable future.

 

The facts are in, and there's no statistical correlation between how severely a locality handled COVID-19 (lockdowns, mask mandates, etc.) and their infection, hospitalization, or death rates.  Continuing to force the restrictions, therefore, meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

 

COVID-19 is a highly contagious virus that mainly ravages the bodies of people who are quite old, who have other respiratory conditions, or who are overweight.  To the rest of society, it's simply not that big a threat.

 

You asked if I believe in any of the main accepted strategies to end the pandemic, and I guess the answer is "mostly, no".  The pandemic is ending itself, as they do.  The virus will be with us forever, as it will always find new hosts and will mutate.  We live on a planet with lots of other viruses, some of which kill some of us sometimes.  As a species we've obviously evolved, too, to deal with those and other threats, and will continue to do so.

[Mary229]

@iceman93  I sometime wonder if it is our Piltdown moment.  Just wondering.  

[Tampa Girl]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:13 PM, mightycruisequeen said:

We have two cruises booked with Holland America for 2022, and we've been hoping that HAL would not be requiring vaccines.  This is wonderful news for us.

 

It will not be such wonderful news if you find yourself on a ship with unvaccinated people who have passed a viral strain to other unvaccinated people aboard the ship, and your ship cannot dock at ports that you wanted to see.  

[Tampa Girl]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There are not definitive studies saying that and if that were to be the case individuals and societies would have to make some decisions.  I don't think we can shut down the world for years on end.  Leaders should only operate from proven data not suppositions.

 

If our leaders had to wait until all data is proven, we would be perpetually living in the past.

[Mary229]

Just now, Tampa Girl said:

 

If our leaders had to wait until all data is proven, we would be perpetually living in the past.

 

It is a bit preposterous, not that I want the job, but I do believe with a vaccine in place the argument for lockdowns is weak.   Those with gold rule and this disease hits the wealthy exotic travelers and the older population and they have the gold.  Before anyone flames me I am in both categories.  If this hit 30 year olds it likely would be all about personal responsibility.

[igraf]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:13 PM, mightycruisequeen said:

We have two cruises booked with Holland America for 2022, and we've been hoping that HAL would not be requiring vaccines.  This is wonderful news for us.

 

Sounds like Carnival Corp cruises will now have a lot of anti-vaxers on board.  What can go wrong with that?

 

Hmmm.....

 

igraf

 

 

 

[Tampa Girl]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

 

It is a bit preposterous, not that I want the job, but I do believe with a vaccine in place the argument for lockdowns is weak.   Those with gold rule and this disease hits the wealthy exotic travelers and the older population and they have the gold.  Before anyone flames me I am in both categories.  If this hit 30 year olds it likely would be all about personal responsibility.

 

I tend to agree with you on no lockdowns, but the spread could be diminished with a ban on large, unprotected gatherings.  These surges appear to come in large part from these gatherings.  The U.S. is now up to 50% of the age-eligible population that has had at least one short.  Let's hope that this upward trend continues until herd immunity has been achieved.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, igraf said:

 

Sounds like Carnival Corp cruises will now have a lot of anti-vaxers on board.  What can go wrong with that?

 

Hmmm.....

 

igraf

 

 

 

I don't think it is the anti-vaxxer sentiment.  They cater to a lot of families with children.  And children don't have a vaccine yet are barely susceptible.   I think the CEO probably shouldn't have said anything publicly instead presenting his arguments to the government bureaucrats in meeting.  He might have been able to get an exclusion for children.

[david,Mississauga]

At least one of the  Carnival family of cruise lines has paid no attention to head office. Cunard is returning the Queen Elizabeth in early summer for cruises around the UK from Southampton for UK residents only. Proof of two doses of the COVID vaccine are required (amongst many other requirements).

 

At the moment the requirement for proof of vaccination does not apply for voyages further ahead, such as the Atlantic crossings on RMS Queen Mary 2 which are planned to resume in November.

[kazu]

47 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

COVID-19 is a highly contagious virus that mainly ravages the bodies of people who are quite old, who have other respiratory conditions, or who are overweight.  To the rest of society, it's simply not that big a threat.

 

I’m sorry but that is just not true any longer.  Now that the variants are out there, many young people have been hospitalized and died.  This is no longer the virus of the elderly.  Everyone is susceptible and needs to be vaccinated for their protection as well as their community’s.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, david,Mississauga said:

At least one of the  Carnival family of cruise lines has paid no attention to head office. Cunard is returning the Queen Elizabeth in early summer for cruises around the UK from Southampton for UK residents only. Proof of two doses of the COVID vaccine are required (amongst many other requirements).

 

At the moment the requirement for proof of vaccination does not apply for voyages further ahead, such as the Atlantic crossings on RMS Queen Mary 2 which are planned to resume in November.

I think Costa is also sailing or will be.  They are both following the guidance of the local governments.  Princess is also going to be sailing from the UK

Edited April 20, 2021 by Mary229

[HappyInVan]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There are not definitive studies saying that and if that were to be the case individuals and societies would have to make some decisions.  I don't think we can shut down the world for years on end.  Leaders should only operate from proven data not suppositions.

 

It's confirmed by yet another study...

 

“Antibodies less effective against South African Covid strain, says French study...

 

According to Dr Thierry Prazuck, who is a co-author of the study, the analysis of the serum samples collected from 58 individuals UP TO NINE MONTHS AFTER THE ONSET OF SYMPTOMS showed that the antibodies neutralised the classic and the UK variant while 40 per cent of the samples lacked any activity against the South African strain...

 

According to the study, while 80 percent of the serum samples (VACCINATED PEOPLE) were neutralising for the UK and the classic variants, only 60 percent of the samples were neutralizing for the B.1.351 variant...”

 

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/antibodies-less-effective-against-south-151643938.html

 

This shows that the South African variant has a very significant ability to defeat natural and vaccine immunity. Well, that's why viruses mutate. To overcome resistance from the host!

 

The scientists did say that infected people will need to take a vaccine anyway. Herd immunity? Try next year!

 

Arnold Donald is delusional if he thinks that kids (and even some adults) will keep their masks on once they board the ship.

Edited April 20, 2021 by HappyInVan

[rucrazy]

For what ever reason Wall Street is paying attention, both CCL and RCL are down today nearly 5% as I post.

 

Joseph