The Department of Homeland Security is considering a vaccination passport for international travel

[zekekelso]

11 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Exactly.  Our cell phones have not been turned on for 14 months now.  Now that we're retired and not commuting, we only used them for calling the shuttle after a cruise.

Is there a smart phone in the US without monthly charges?

If you want you can always get a cheap or used phone and not hook it up to a cell service. As long as it had access to WiFi, you can set it up to make calls, text, access the internet, on board ship stuff, etc. And even without WiFi you can use it as a camera, picture viewers, play games, etc. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by zekekelso

[cruisemom42]

58 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

We rarely use a cell phone  so why would I spend $$  to get  a smart phone  plus the data charges  here in Canada  are very expensive

 YMMV

 

 

But there may come a day when they are as indispensable in travel as some type of home computer is at home...

 

[broberts]

13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Forgery. Digital is seen as less likely to be forged. Even Nigeria has been moving the Yellow Fever Certificate to a digital platform because of a spate of counterfeit certificates. 

How Will Digital Yellow Card Certificates Track COVID-19 Immunizations?

 

Not a strong argument. Any digital system can be hacked. When it happens millions of forgeries are possible nearly instantly. Law enforcement would have trouble tracking down hackers and it might be difficult to catch users.

 

At least with the yellow cards each one must be filled out manually, proving intent. Since it requires manual perusal, fakes are more easily detected.  It is also a vastly cheaper solution.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by broberts

[CPT Trips]

15 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

That is what concerns me.  

 

 

OK with me.  The current issue for those of us in the United States is that it would require massive numbers of new passports to be issued.  Because of the 2020 closure of the Passport Offices, there are already significant backlogs of applications for new and renewal passports.  

 

Why does it seem to me that the old KISS philosophy lacks respect?  If the Yellow Vaccination Certificate worked before, it would work now.  Keep It Simple Stupid!  

If this was good enough for Hammurabi, why did we have law books and now digital law libraries?

 

[cruisingguy007]

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What's the big deal about getting a smart phone? It's ultimately just one more thing you'll need to travel, if not to use in daily life. I imagine sometime, somewhere, at some time in the past there was someone saying "Why do I need a suitcase to travel? I can just stuff my things in a pillowcase..."

 

 

 

Who cares? Let them stay home. Considering that smartphones are basically free and don't require a data plan to use wifi, anyone who claims they are some kind of additional expense is simply being obtuse. They can stay home with a hammer and chisel and write letters on stone tablets lol. Those folks should be ignored. They are simply being resistant to change for the sake of being resistant. There is zero valid logic unless one is simply technologically challenged to a high degree.    

[CPT Trips]

15 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

That is what concerns me.  

 

 

OK with me.  The current issue for those of us in the United States is that it would require massive numbers of new passports to be issued.  Because of the 2020 closure of the Passport Offices, there are already significant backlogs of applications for new and renewal passports.  

 

Why does it seem to me that the old KISS philosophy lacks respect?  If the Yellow Vaccination Certificate worked before, it would work now.  Keep It Simple Stupid!  

There isn’t a need to issue new passports to “attach” a vax record. Precheck is  “attached” electronically (actually made accessible as the information is maintained else) by scanning the existing coding on the passport.

[shipgeeks]

2 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Who cares? Let them stay home. Considering that smartphones are basically free and don't require a data plan to use wifi, anyone who claims they are some kind of additional expense is simply being obtuse. They can stay home with a hammer and chisel and write letters on stone tablets lol. Those folks should be ignored. They are simply being resistant to change for the sake of being resistant. There is zero valid logic unless one is simply technologically challenged to a high degree.    

In what way are smartphones free?

 

[Charles4515]

4 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

There isn’t a need to issue new passports to “attach” a vax record. Precheck is  “attached” electronically (actually made accessible as the information is maintained else) by scanning the existing coding on the passport.

 

Yes, it could be like pre check. All you would need was to enter your vaccine passport number or a QR code. The data can be on an external server. We are doing some thing like that at our community pool. The pool pass registration is on a tablet. We do have an app on a smartphone with a QR code but the names of those don't have phones can be entered manually. Not a big deal as 90% have smartphones.

[cruisingguy007]

Just now, shipgeeks said:

In what way are smartphones free?

 

They cost no more than a basic handset. There are a plethora of places to acquire one very cheaply (ebay, groupon, craigslist, amazon warehouse deals etc etc etc) and many free if you switch carriers. You can also buy pre-paid sims on ebay very cheaply as well and use voip to make calls as well. The government will even give you a phone if you're so poor you can't afford one (universal lifeline). You have to pay for gas, taxes, all kinds of fees, insurance, food, passports etc etc etc when traveling. Pretending that picking up a cheap smartphone (even used) for basic function (when traveling) is a huge expense, just makes one look silly. Like I said, I don't care. Stay home. I'm sure you don't drive a horse and buggy to the airport. 🙄 

[cruisingguy007]

46 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But there may come a day when they are as indispensable in travel as some type of home computer is at home...

 

 

They already are. That is exactly what a smart phone is, a small computer that fits in your pocket with a built in dialer function and integrated sim. It does the exact same thing. There is free wifi everywhere. You could probably even get by with no data plan. These same folks don't use pay phones for a reason but complain about a "smart phone" as going too far. It's laughable if they have a computer, tablet, chromebook, or laptop as they already have a smart phone. It's just very large. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[ilikeanswers]

34 minutes ago, broberts said:

Not a strong argument. Any digital system can be hacked. When it happens millions of forgeries are possible nearly instantly. Law enforcement would have trouble tracking down hackers and it might be difficult to catch users.

 

That depends on the security. A good block chain like what bitcoin utilises is nearly impossible to hack but to be honest I doubt you would need anything that highly secure. The only people who would be really interested in forging vaccine certificates would be anti vaxers seeking to travel and conspiracy theorists who think such databases are neferious not exactly a huge market so I doubt that organised crime would waste their hacker army resources on such a niche market and I also doubt governments would attack a vaccine certificate database since it would be in their best interest to know that foreign visitors are vaccinated. IMO you only need enough security to deter the individual hacks and those hacks don't tend to be quite as effective. It certainly takes more knowledge to hack a database than forge a paper certificate so I reckon the security argument is pretty strong.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Who cares? Let them stay home. Considering that smartphones are basically free and don't require a data plan to use wifi, anyone who claims they are some kind of additional expense is simply being obtuse.

What is basically free  mean?

 

[Mike981]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Unfortunately we live in an age where honesty is no longer popular and ethics is derisively referred to as "virtue signalling" (or worse).

 

 

I don't know if humanity is any more ethically deficient than the past. I believe it is just more obvious. 

[broberts]

25 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

That depends on the security. A good block chain like what bitcoin utilises is nearly impossible to hack but to be honest I doubt you would need anything that highly secure. The only people who would be really interested in forging vaccine certificates would be anti vaxers seeking to travel and conspiracy theorists who think such databases are neferious not exactly a huge market so I doubt that organised crime would waste their hacker army resources on such a niche market and I also doubt governments would attack a vaccine certificate database since it would be in their best interest to know that foreign visitors are vaccinated. IMO you only need enough security to deter the individual hacks and those hacks don't tend to be quite as effective. It certainly takes more knowledge to hack a database than forge a paper certificate so I reckon the security argument is pretty strong.

 

I'm not so sanguine about state actors not being interested. It occurs to me that a well publicized breach of a country's database could make travel much more difficult for those nationals disrupting trade, etc. Not to mention loss of reputation.

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, LHT28 said:

We rarely use a cell phone  so why would I spend $$  to get  a smart phone  plus the data charges  here in Canada  are very expensive

 YMMV

 

Until 3 1/2 years ago DW still used an old flip phone and was content.  Now, she wouldn't go anywhere without her iPhone.  Although I have long been a "techie" I used to have issues with Smartphones.  But they are now becoming very necessary for international travel and are also invaluable for domestic travel.  I now consider my iPhone nearly as important as my Passport when out of the country.  In the last year we are seeing a new trend where certain functions can only be done on a phone and a non-phone option is either very complicated or does not even exist.  I am not aware of any alternative for the current app used by the Greek Government to fulfill their entry requirements.  I suppose if one can get in their country and throw themselves on the mercy of officials at the airport...there might be a solution.    The "Vaccine Passport" apps being tested in Europe are only usable with a Smartphone and will likely soon be a requirement for those that want to travel in the EU.  I think those without a workable Smartphone may soon find that their travel options are very limited.   

 

As to the cost of phone plans in Canada, my Canadian friends always tell me that everything is better in Canada in the USA...so I guess you can just tell yourself that is true and cope :).  

 

Hank

 

 

[sandra3022]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

I don’t have a yellow vaccination certificate. I suppose if they decided that this was the ‘vaccine passport’ I could get one. But since I have already gotten my vaccine, then either my doctor or I would have to fill the entry out for the Covid vaccine. I got my vaccine from the health department. My doctor doesn’t know I got it other than self reporting. So this is basically going to depend 100% on self reporting. What’s the point then? Just ask someone if they had the vaccine.

 

A digital vaccine passport where whoever logs your entry verifies that you did have the vaccine would be far more secure. 

Your vaccine was reported to a national data bank by your local health department . That’s how they track which areas got % vaccinated . 

[Pudgesmom]

3 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Exactly.  Our cell phones have not been turned on for 14 months now.  Now that we're retired and not commuting, we only used them for calling the shuttle after a cruise.

Is there a smart phone in the US without monthly charges?

Sure, get a burner phone, buy some time, download the app and show your proof upon entry. No need for continued connectivity. You can also download city maps and use them offline for navigation in foreign cities. I once used the Google map of Lisbon to navigate the Alfama, including pedestrian only lanes. Really really useful.
 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Pudgesmom

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

What is basically free  mean?

 

 

 So ubiquitous that people have drawers full of them and they can be purchased for $60 or less. Many prepaid services will give you one free. if you typed/posted this, you already have one anyway. Don't forget your wall charger and backpack! 

Edited May 29, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[LHT28]

17 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

 . if you typed/posted this, you already have one anyway. Don't forget your wall charger and backpack! 

Nope  do not have a smart phone

 

[cruisingguy007]

Just now, LHT28 said:

Nope  do not have a smart phone

 

Sorry. If you typed this, you do. You're just confused with technological labels and concepts. 

[sanger727]

44 minutes ago, sandra3022 said:

Your vaccine was reported to a national data bank by your local health department . That’s how they track which areas got % vaccinated . 

not sure how that makes my self filled in vaccine log more reliable. My doctor knows I got the vaccine because I told them. They didn’t ‘Look it up’. I told them I got the vaccine and they asked for the dates and manufacturer to put it in my records. So if I go in and ask her to fill a vaccine log out, she is most likely going to pull up that record (which was provided by me) to fill it in.

[slidergirl]

12 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Sorry. If you typed this, you do. You're just confused with technological labels and concepts. 

I don't use my iPhone to look at/write on CC - I use my MacBook Pro.  I believe that poster does something similar.  I did CC LONG before I finally got an iPhone (had my RAZR for years until it died).  Not everyone uses their phone as their only way of connecting...

 

[broberts]

57 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Sorry. If you typed this, you do. You're just confused with technological labels and concepts. 

 

It could have been typed on a desktop or laptop pc. Perhaps a tablet. None of which are smartphones.

[rkacruiser]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

It could have been typed on a desktop or laptop pc. Perhaps a tablet. None of which are smartphones.

 

I use my desktop to communicate on CC as well as another Forum in which I participate, send e-mails, even use Word to occasionally to write a letter that I then snail mail.  😲

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But there may come a day when they are as indispensable in travel as some type of home computer is at home...

 

 

That is what I think is going to happen.  

 

My cell phone provider is encouraging their customers who use their 3G cell phones to upgrade to a 4G or 5G unit.  Their argument is that 3G service may become unavailable when the various communication companies complete their roll out of 5G.  I admit that I have no understanding of all of these "Gs".  But, maybe now is the appropriate time to make a change.  

 

Their offer is to upgrade my flip cell phone to a 4G for free.  Or, there are multiple choices for smart phones that they offer.  

 

So, what to do?  Is this just a "sales pitch" by my provider?  Is this really a potentially "real problem" on the horizon?