Thoughts on getting around the vaccination req’t

[firefly333]

4 minutes ago, Bgwest said:

Simple. Amend the enabling Florida legislation to include the language used in the new Texas statute about complying with Federal law.  

 

Specifically,  Section 14 of Texas Senate Bill 968. It reads, the law cannot restrict any business from “implementing COVID-19 screening and infection control protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health.”

 

Cruises out of Galveston will proceed on schedule while those in Florida remain in a quagmire.  

How do they handle the 5% cdc rules, 95% vaccinated?  What do they do with already booked cruisers.

 

My roll call has kids and adults not vaxxer. They are asking what about them. Carnival says nothing as far out as sept. They cant cancel until we get a letter, they need to know they say.

 

Everyone only focusses on florida and not hardly a whisper about the cdc 95%. .. shows how political this is. Hey look over here, not there ... florida we will know about when cruises restart ..the cdc 95% is here at least until nov 1st. 

[SeaHunt]

3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

How do they handle the 5% cdc rules, 95% vaccinated?  What do they do with already booked cruisers.

 

Interesting post over on the Princess board with many wondering if this is how it will pan out:

 

 

[BlerkOne]

44 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Rumor has it the 5% will be only kids, though even then how does carnival go from 10% kids to 5%.

 

Idk if you saw july cruisers had a link to be part of the 5% and so many applied it crashed. No one knows even for july how carnival will select, and vista leaves july 3rd. My pet theory is they are hoping kids and unvaccinated cancel, rather than make carnival have to choose

Easy. They will have a lottery. But it won't be just kids. Carnival has already released many details.

 

And it will be 5% maximum. Most likely a little less to make sure they have at least 95% vaccinated. 95 is the requirement, not 5.

[stellarose]

lets keep that 95% percent. 

 

[MrMarc]

Both laws have similar phrasing regarding the exception regarding Federal Law.  Texas is a little broader in that it doesn't require the exceptions to be Federal Law.  However, CDC rules are Federal law.  Here are both laws so everyone can make up their own minds:

FLORIDA

  381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.—

 1122         (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include

 1123  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or

 1124  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19

 1125  vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry

 1126  upon, or service from the business operations in this state.

 1127  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from

 1128  instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or

 1129  controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

 1130         (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not

 1131  require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19

 1132  vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry

 1133  upon, or service from the governmental entity’s operations in

 1134  this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict

 1135  governmental entities from instituting screening protocols

 1136  consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued

 1137  guidance to protect public health.

 1138         (3) An educational institution as defined in s. 768.38 may

 1139  not require students or residents to provide any documentation

 1140  certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery for

 1141  attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or

 1142  service from such educational institution in this state. This

 1143  subsection does not otherwise restrict educational institutions

 1144  from instituting screening protocols consistent with

 1145  authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to

 1146  protect public health.

 1147         (4) The department may impose a fine not to exceed $5,000

 1148  per violation.

 1149         (5) This section does not apply to a health care provider

 1150  as defined in s. 768.38; a service provider licensed or

 1151  certified under s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV

 1152  of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic

 1153  exemption under s. 400.9935.

 1154         (6) The department may adopt rules pursuant to ss. 120.536

 1155  and 120.54 to implement this section.

 

 

 TEXAS

Sec. 161.0085.  COVID-19 VACCINE PASSPORTS PROHIBITED. (a)
	In this section, "COVID-19" means the 2019 novel coronavirus
	disease.
	(b)  A governmental entity in this state may not issue a
	vaccine passport, vaccine pass, or other standardized
	documentation to certify an individual's COVID-19 vaccination
	status to a third party for a purpose other than health care or
	otherwise publish or share any individual's COVID-19 immunization
	record or similar health information for a purpose other than
	health care.
	(c)  A business in this state may not require a customer to
	provide any documentation certifying the customer's COVID-19
	vaccination or post-transmission recovery on entry to, to gain
	access to, or to receive service from the business. A business that
	fails to comply with this subsection is not eligible to receive a     grant or enter into a contract payable with state funds.          (d)  Notwithstanding any other law, each appropriate state   agency shall ensure that businesses in this state comply with   Subsection (c) and may require compliance with that subsection as a   condition for a license, permit, or other state authorization   necessary for conducting business in this state.          (e)  This section may not be construed to:                (1)  restrict a business from implementing COVID-19   screening and infection control protocols in accordance with state   and federal law to protect public health; or                (2)  interfere with an individual's right to access the   individual's personal health information under federal law.

[Aplmac]

You guys are a legal mess, but I guess you knew that already!

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Rumor has it the 5% will be only kids, though even then how does carnival go from 10% kids to 5%.

 

Idk if you saw july cruisers had a link to be part of the 5% and so many applied it crashed. No one knows even for july how carnival will select, and vista leaves july 3rd. My pet theory is they are hoping kids and unvaccinated cancel, rather than make carnival have to choose

Remember that 10% of kids on Carnival surely also includes children 12 and over who now are eligible to get their vaccinations.

[TNcruising02]

In one of Carnival's emails they stated that they had 5% for people not vaccinated, which will go mostly to children 12 and under.  But even then, it will be less than 5% to allow room for error.  I don't have the email with their exact words, but that sums it up.  That's why people are taking a huge chance hoping their children will be among the less than 5% unvaccinated.

[firefly333]

Celebrity's way around florida law is they cant ask, but if you dont volunteer to show it, you might not board. ..though they cant force you to answer. Problem solved. ..when you feel like volunteering the info then you can board.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

Celebrity's way around florida law is they cant ask, but if you dont volunteer to show it, you might not board. ..though they cant force you to answer. Problem solved. ..when you feel like volunteering the info then you can board.

That's a slippery slope since the law states they can't deny services based on vaccination status.  However, since they are stating that they are sailing with only vaccinated people that's what they will get.  Nobody is going to want to risk being turned away when they can just cruise on RCL.

Edited June 13, 2021 by TNcruising02

[lele100]

4 hours ago, Shakatime said:

Don’t care. It’s their business I’m sure they’ll figure it out…

I care I’m on one of those cruises lol *****

Edited June 14, 2021 by lele100

[stellarose]

sure they will see that vaccinated ships work and continue with it. sorry. unpopular. 

[RoyalC]

9 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

Why would we even consider Cruising without Masks or Proof of Vaccination? We are continuing to put innocent lives at high risk. If you don't believe in the vaccines, believe that Covid is real and believe that Covid is starting to infect more young children then you have no right to believe that you should Cruise. 

 

We should be fed up with our Citizens getting sicker because a few "Out of Control" State Governors are power hungry! I am as eager to Cruise as the next Carnival Cruise Nut; however, I am not willing to risk my or my family's life onboarding with a bunch of "False" document holding passengers.     

So you think wearing a mask is a good vacation? Have at it. Also, you stated you do not want to risk your families life, but also imply you believe in vaccines. If you are vaccinated, what are you worried about? 

[SNJCruisers]

10 hours ago, ChutChut said:

I don't envision Florida blocking any departures. I envision FL fining the cruise lines $5,000 per pax required to present vaccine verification. That could add up very quickly.

Maybe they could have the accountants add up all that money in Fantasyland.

[zzdoug]

1 hour ago, RoyalC said:

So you think wearing a mask is a good vacation? Have at it. Also, you stated you do not want to risk your families life, but also imply you believe in vaccines. If you are vaccinated, what are you worried about? 

I'm vaxed and not worried about contracting covid. However I am quite concerned about an infestation that results in a wasted miserable vacation. 

[RWolver672]

13 hours ago, Wennfred said:

From what what I’ve been reading, if it’s an issue, the unvaccinated persons will be added to the 5% of the passengers and will have different rules and restrictions like having to wear their masks. 

 

Fred

 

Once the ship is underway, how will they know who is vaccinated and who isn't?  They will have a hard time monitoring if the unvaccinated are wearing masks and following any other restrictions.  Even if they went so far as to give the vaccinated cruisers a wrist band to show that they have had it, there will some complain that they aren't about to wear the band for seven days.  

 

I guess our addiction to cruising is a lot less than a lot of people on here.  We love cruising but in no way are we shelling out thousands of dollars for flights, hotels, cruise accommodations, only to find out that the cruise "might"  be cut short, we "might" be quarantined in our cabin and who knows what else.  No, we'll wait until all of this is over and be able to fully enjoy a cruise.  Patience is a virtue and thankfully, we have it.  

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by RWolver672

[BoozinCroozin]

It will be very interesting to see what happens. In the end, Federal laws will prevail over state laws. The CDC could play hardball with FL. FL could let the ship sail from FL without vaccine requirements. The CDC can block the ship returning to the US without vaccine verification. Imagine the CDC not allowing the cruise to return to a FL port because vaccine requirements were not provided. I believe they have the authority to execute this and it would be interesting to see what happens if they do. 14-day quarantine from returning until DeSantis changes the law.

[travelplus]

One way to discourage those without vaccines is to only allow vaccinated passengers to book Premium Cabins and all non vaccinated passengers get assigned to GTY Cabins. They won't be able to see shows at preferred times, eat Dinner at 3 PM and have little access to specialty dining.  Those without vaccinations pay double gratuities to cover vaccinated passengers and would have a mandatory Travel Insurance policy added to their account.

 

On tours vaccinated passengers are the only ones let off the ship. Unvaccinated passengers would not be allowed to use the pool or gym unless on a port day. Each time they want to use the amenities thru must get a negative rapid PCR test daily on their expense I nboard before dining or using the pool. If they refuse they can be deboarded and can be banned from cruising 

 

Also non vaccinated passengers would be subjected to quarrintining at any given time for any reason in their Stateroom.

 

So it pays to get vaccinated or be subjected to hefty fines etc 

[Keys2Heaven]

Given that a majority of folks surveyed indicated that they would prefer to sail with other vaccinated guests (> 12), what percentage of passengers would realistically not volunteer their vaccination status online as part of the health screening and would want to be subject to restrictive protocols and expenses?

 

[Cushing985]

16 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

According to the US Department of Health there are individuals that have had the Vaccines and still are contracting Covid. Guys it's still way too risky? We need to stop rushing the process and let the Trained Experts do their job. They will totally advise us when its absolutely safe to return to our Love of Cruising. In the meantime mask up my friends! 

 

You are correct that some vaccinated people are catching COVID but I also understand the patients don't even have to be admitted to a hospital because the effects are muted.  What I'm a bit worried about is the mutation from India.  I read yesterday that 30% of the people who caught it in Great Britain had received the vaccine but still got very sick.  It seems to be a gift that keeps giving.  I've lost faith in the CDC and the news media so who really knows?  My wife and I received the vaccine (good news, I didn't grow a third ear).  We are very comfortable not wearing a mask (unless the business requires it) and large crowds don't bother us any longer.  What I won't do is wear a mask onboard a ship because who needs a weird tanline?  We're more than willing to skip cruising if that becomes a reality.

[sanger727]

You guys are skipping over the CDC's orders. The cruise lines got the choice of following stringent requirements - masks, testing, test cruises OR 95% vaccinations. That was an either/or proposition, not a situation where they could combine the two. They can't allow people unvaccinated to book and board and hope they get to 95%, and then for that cruise or those people allow unmasked. None of the cruise lines have done test cruises. None are eligible to sail with less than 95% vaxxed. If Florida doesn't allow them to check vaccination status they won't sail. 

[firefly333]

19 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

If Florida doesn't allow them to check vaccination status they won't sail. 

And if people voluntarily provide their vaccination status ... which is what celebrity is doing.

 

Carnival doesnt say.

 

Rcl is going unvaccinated. 

 

They all plan on sailing soon. 

[sanger727]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

And if people voluntarily provide their vaccination status ... which is what celebrity is doing.

 

Carnival doesnt say.

 

Rcl is going unvaccinated. 

 

They all plan on sailing soon. 

 

If you can't board without "voluntarily" providing vaccine status. It's not voluntary. How is the different than "requiring" you to provide vaccine status? And I'll believe they are sailing without being 95% vaxxed when I see it, that hasn't happened yet. 

[mss22859]

I have talked with the others in our group (7 people in 3 cabins), regarding our October Mardi Gras cruise. We came to the decision that whatever rules/protocols are instituted, we will follow. The ONLY concern is that my great-granddaughter,who will be 10 months old at time of sailing, will not be allowed to sail due to not being vaccinated. Even if there is a lottery for unvaccinated, how far in advance will this take place? As we will be traveling from upstate New York, this would mean cancelled flights, transportation, etc. Not that it matters at all, but we booked this cruise in October of 2019, long before the pandemic. And the other 6 in our party have been vaxxed.

[logan25]

All subject to change.  No ship subject to the CSO has yet sailed from a US port.  The earliest projected departure is Celebrity from Port Everglades on June 26.  I, for one, am waiting to see how events play out,  Should be interesting.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by logan25