No vaccine mixing allowed in US… I hope this changes very very quickly 😱

[DirtyDawg]

17 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

Yes Thanks,  I knew from the Molson and CC chaser comment you see the light. 

 

Some  correspondence between Canada and the CDC might have prevented the confusion,   there and here.   Maybe it happened maybe it didn't.   WHO knows?

 

Thank you to those of you biting your tongue,  if you have a reasonable point go ahead and ask a question.

 

Would Canada do it differently it they had to do it again?   I say they would do it differently.  

 

I think at a personal level I would have questioned somebody trying to give me a non-matching second dose; but then I have worked in a number of hospitals across the US.

 

A simple text exchange or diplomatic exchange beforehand seems like it would have prevented the problem,   maybe yes,  maybe no.  (that is what I meant by speak).   

 

 

I highly doubt they would do anything differently. Their job is to save lives, not to avoid inconveniencing some travelers.  In retrospect, with a 70%+ vaccination rate and over 50% fully vaccinated I'd say they did their job very well. 

[cantstopingcruising]

During the peak of the pandemic, the most important thing was to get the number of new cases under control and to reduce the number of hospital beds and ICU beds used by covid patients. 

Pfizer and Moderna  deliveries were held up and AZ was available for a certain age group. People were encouraged to take the AZ if they fell into that group.  Later, when cases of blot clots occurred, the advice was to switch to Pfizer or Moderna, which in addition were better protection for the variants.

 

I believe that those who were given AZ and then P or M, are double vaccinated and should be able to travel.  I hope this will get straightened out soon.

 

Vaccinations are going very well in this country and the numbers of doubled vaccinated people are climbing.

[lovemylab]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

Would Canada do it differently it they had to do it again?   I say they would do it differently.  

 

I think at a personal level I would have questioned somebody trying to give me a non-matching second dose; but then I have worked in a number of hospitals across the US.

 

A simple text exchange or diplomatic exchange beforehand seems like it would have prevented the problem,   maybe yes,  maybe no.  (that is what I meant by speak).   

 

 

 

The Canadian Governments priority was accelerating the vaccine rollout to save lives.  I highly doubt they'd do it differently just so that a few people would have an easier time going on a cruise in the early days of travel resuming.

 

Germany, France, Spain, Italy, South Korea, Finland, Norway & Sweden are also mixing doses.  Studies in the UK and Spain have shown that mixing vaccines is safe and highly effective.  Justin Trudeau (Canadian Prime Minister) & Angela Merkel (German Chancellor) both received mixed doses.  The decision to mix doses wasn't made by pre-schoolers.  It was made based on science.

 

Google is your friend.  Going forward you may want to research things a bit before babbling about something you clearly know nothing about. 

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, lovemylab said:

 

The Canadian Governments priority was accelerating the vaccine rollout to save lives.  I highly doubt they'd do it differently just so that a few people would have an easier time going on a cruise in the early days of travel resuming.

 

Germany, France, Spain, Italy, South Korea, Finland, Norway & Sweden are also mixing doses.  Studies in the UK and Spain have shown that mixing vaccines is safe and highly effective.  Justin Trudeau (Canadian Prime Minister) & Angela Merkel (German Chancellor) both received mixed doses.  The decision to mix doses wasn't made by pre-schoolers.  It was made based on science.

 

Google is your friend.  Going forward you may want to research things a bit before babbling about something you clearly know nothing about. 

There's absolutely no question that the GOC would make the same decisions, choosing to reduce cases and saving lives. The travel issue can and will be fixed, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to help those who would have died unnecessarily.

[Iamcruzin]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:23 PM, pixiedust777 said:

Both Celebrity and Royal updated their policies today not allowing mixed vaccines.

Ironically you can sail on Royal Caribbean without being vaccinated so what difference does it make if you were injected with a vaccine cocktail.

[JRG]

 

51 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Pfizer and Moderna  deliveries were held up and AZ was available for a certain age group. People were encouraged to take the AZ if they fell into that group.  Later, when cases of blot clots occurred, the advice was to switch to Pfizer or Moderna, which in addition were better protection for the variants.

So supply distribution inadequacies or dependencies on the overseas production are to blame perhaps to start the chain.   I had supposed that this was the problem and I wish the US and Canada could have managed this better.   

 

And the advisory was to take AZ,  then the alarm was raised for blood clots and a recommendation to switch to P or M.   

 

So if this is true,  then it was fear of the blood clots that forced the changing of the vax  horse in mid-stream.

 

Is the AZ blood clot still a show-stopper for effectivity,  or did the fears materialize. or was it just a very rare rare event and is still being used elsewhere (and accepted)

 

Canada's vax rate as reported by @DirtyDawg is very very accurate,   but you are only a grizzly hair ahead of the US and we've done many many more.      

 

We can exchange virtually every other commodity in the world but we can't exchange life saving vaccinations and this is what happens.

 

 

[scottbee]

40 minutes ago, lovemylab said:

 

The Canadian Governments priority was accelerating the vaccine rollout to save lives.  I highly doubt they'd do it differently just so that a few people would have an easier time going on a cruise in the early days of travel resuming.

 

Germany, France, Spain, Italy, South Korea, Finland, Norway & Sweden are also mixing doses.  Studies in the UK and Spain have shown that mixing vaccines is safe and highly effective.  Justin Trudeau (Canadian Prime Minister) & Angela Merkel (German Chancellor) both received mixed doses.  The decision to mix doses wasn't made by pre-schoolers.  It was made based on science.

 

And it's been highly effective.  Canada has had 10,000 fewer C19 deaths than just the US state of Florida. As for vaccination rollout, Canada is 15 percentage points higher in people who have received one dose, and about 1 percentage point higher in people who are fully vaccinated (and that gap is getting bigger).

 

[JRG]

42 minutes ago, lovemylab said:

I highly doubt they'd do it differently just so that a few people would have an easier time going on a cruise in the early days of travel resuming.

 

No,  but they would do it differently to open up the Canadian ports on time,   wouldn't they,

 

I say they would do it different,  that's all.   If you are saying they would do the same then 

that's great (for you).

[DirtyDawg]

3 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

No,  but they would do it differently to open up the Canadian ports on time,   wouldn't they,

 

I say they would do it different,  that's all.   If you are saying they would do the same then 

that's great (for you).

Canadian ports are not closed. They are only closed to non essential travel, i.e. cruise ships. 

 

In fact, total 2020 port volumes were 346 million tonnes which was a decline of only 0.7 per cent from the record tonnage of 348.6 million tonnes set in 2019.

 

In terms of economic impact, cruise ship port volumes are not the flea of the elephant's back, they are the pimple on the flea on the elephant's back.  So no, the Health authorities would not likely have changed their minds just to reopen cruise ship access to posts earlier. 

[JRG]

22 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Canadian ports are not closed. They are only closed to non essential travel, i.e. cruise ships. 

 

It feels like a Rabbit hole now:

 

And I'm fresh out of carrots and I thought we were talking about cruising port re-openings anyways and why the timing of the Vax Mix and Mis-Match could hurt travel abroad unexpectedly.

 

I say it could take time because cruising is under the CSO and the CSO is following the FDA and the FDA is calling the shots when it comes to vax hybrid approvals and who really knows.

(as a sidebar I say in the future the US and Canada need a pre-existing condition to expedite and prevent things like this from re-occuring).

 

The person who really is holding all the answers is the poster with the Magic-8-ball as to when this will get worked out.

 

Where are you?  

 

 

[tert333]

Just watched a news report on CNBC with Shepard Smith.  There is a study out that shows that the J&J vaccine is not effective against the Delta Variant.   The article goes on to say that many doctors are comparing a single shot of it to that of a single dose of Astrazenca vaccine to be equally effective.  Here is an interesting extract:

 

Turning to an mRNA vaccine for the second shot, rather than another J&J shot, may be better: Several studies have shown that combining one dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine with a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines kicks up the immune response more effectively than two doses of AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/ct-aud-nw-nyt-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-delta-variant-20210720-firar53ytzdc7hewcdvqhm7jdm-story.html

 

The specialist on the CNBC show said that he does not consider J&J complete unless you get a second dose.  He recommends it for his clients.

 

This will stoke the discussion on mixing vaccines in the US.   Keep your eyes on the news as this is just out over multiple news services tonight!

[mom says]

1 hour ago, tert333 said:

Just watched a news report on CNBC with Shepard Smith.  There is a study out that shows that the J&J vaccine is not effective against the Delta Variant.   The article goes on to say that many doctors are comparing a single shot of it to that of a single dose of Astrazenca vaccine to be equally effective.  Here is an interesting extract:

 

Turning to an mRNA vaccine for the second shot, rather than another J&J shot, may be better: Several studies have shown that combining one dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine with a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines kicks up the immune response more effectively than two doses of AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/ct-aud-nw-nyt-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-delta-variant-20210720-firar53ytzdc7hewcdvqhm7jdm-story.html

 

The specialist on the CNBC show said that he does not consider J&J complete unless you get a second dose.  He recommends it for his clients.

 

This will stoke the discussion on mixing vaccines in the US.   Keep your eyes on the news as this is just out over multiple news services tonight!

Can't wait to read @JRGs response to this. It would appear the shoe may be on the other foot soon if this recommendation is adopted. But first they need to get approval from every other country where Americans may visit. Isnt that how it's supposed to work JRG?

[Blackduck59]

4 hours ago, JRG said:

 

So supply distribution inadequacies or dependencies on the overseas production are to blame perhaps to start the chain.   I had supposed that this was the problem and I wish the US and Canada could have managed this better.   

 

And the advisory was to take AZ,  then the alarm was raised for blood clots and a recommendation to switch to P or M.   

 

So if this is true,  then it was fear of the blood clots that forced the changing of the vax  horse in mid-stream.

 

Is the AZ blood clot still a show-stopper for effectivity,  or did the fears materialize. or was it just a very rare rare event and is still being used elsewhere (and accepted)

 

Canada's vax rate as reported by @DirtyDawg is very very accurate,   but you are only a grizzly hair ahead of the US and we've done many many more.      

 

We can exchange virtually every other commodity in the world but we can't exchange life saving vaccinations and this is what happens.

 

 

 

There is an old saying "better to stay quiet and have people think you are hopeless than to continue to spew dribble and confirm their suspicions" perhaps it's time to just stop before we forget we are Canadians and stop being polite.

[JRG]

2 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

There is an old saying "better to stay quiet and have people think you are hopeless than to continue to spew dribble and confirm their suspicions" perhaps it's time to just stop before we forget we are Canadians and stop being polite.

 

Thanks but it sounds like a contrived run on sentence.   Don't quit your dayjob.

[Blackduck59]

Just now, JRG said:

 

Thanks but it sounds like a contrived run on sentence.   Don't quit your dayjob.

 

Well the actual quote is more blunt but I can't use that on here. And day job is 2 words.

Dismissed

[Roger88]

5 hours ago, tert333 said:

Just watched a news report on CNBC with Shepard Smith.  There is a study out that shows that the J&J vaccine is not effective against the Delta Variant.   The article goes on to say that many doctors are comparing a single shot of it to that of a single dose of Astrazenca vaccine to be equally effective.  Here is an interesting extract:

 

Turning to an mRNA vaccine for the second shot, rather than another J&J shot, may be better: Several studies have shown that combining one dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine with a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines kicks up the immune response more effectively than two doses of AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/ct-aud-nw-nyt-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-delta-variant-20210720-firar53ytzdc7hewcdvqhm7jdm-story.html

 

The specialist on the CNBC show said that he does not consider J&J complete unless you get a second dose.  He recommends it for his clients.

 

This will stoke the discussion on mixing vaccines in the US.   Keep your eyes on the news as this is just out over multiple news services tonight!

All this information is way to cotraversial. It all depends on your own immunie system. For some, taking two different vaccines can be a good option while others may get harmed by such a combination. Moreover, I would suggest going thorough examination before getting any of them. Hope you all are doing fine 

[pixiedust777]

13 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Ironically you can sail on Royal Caribbean without being vaccinated so what difference does it make if you were injected with a vaccine cocktail.

I could still sail on Celebrity unvaccinated if I wanted to follow all the unvaccinated rules and protocols as well as nearly adding 1k to my cruise cost for pre and during cruise testing.

Edited July 21, 2021 by pixiedust777

[MaddyandMax]

23 hours ago, tert333 said:

This blog has been very good at getting the message out to people on cruisecritic of the issue around mixed doses. 

 

There has been a lot of articles around mixing doses today, one of which referenced a blogger from cruisecritic.  CTV news in Canada has picked it up.  The Toronto Star has an article. For those in Toronto, it was on cp24 this morning.  This is all good as it is putting a spotlight on the issue. 

 

The only thing we can do is put pressure on our elected officials and the TA/Cruiselines to work on getting the appropriate approvals and ignore the negative comments of why this can not happen.   I would encourage you to contact your leaders and let them know this is an issue.  I do believe something will happen if we keep the attention on this.  At the end of the day, the cruiselines want as many customers as possible, so they have a vested interest in allowing us to cruise.  

 

If we do not say another, nothing will change.

 

 

I'm part of the family mentioned in the Toronto Star article.  I am glad to see other outlets are picking up the story.  The more news coverage the better - look at Barbados.  We decided to make final payment for our October cruise but the more I read on here the more and more unlikely it seems that I will be on that cruise.  I refuse to cruise as "unvaccinated".  It's insulting to say the least.  So far over 1.3 million Canadians have mixed doses.  Plus a lot of people in Europe.  This is no small problem.

 

Not that I want to get political but I think our PM double wronged us, and I like him.  He put us in this predicament and now doesn't seem to be doing much to fix it.  We are opening our borders to the US.  Why did he not make sure the US accepts our vaccines first?  Wouldn't that have been the best bargaining chip that we had?  Mixing vaccine brands is NOT new.  I would bet almost everyone on this board has had some vaccine that was "mixed" and they don't even know it.  You don't go to the doctor to get a regular vaccine and ask the brand...

[Iamcruzin]

42 minutes ago, pixiedust777 said:

I could still sail on Celebrity unvaccinated if I wanted to follow all the unvaccinated rules and protocols as well as nearly adding 1k to my cruise cost for pre and during cruise testing.

I know all about the upcharges and protocols. It sucks but it could also cost you money if you have to cancel flights and other arrangements. I personally would take a cash refund from Celebrity. This is just getting out of hand each day and the rules are getting worse than better.  I wonder if they will accept a passenger with a vaccine mixture on one of those new space launch flights that Jeff Bezos just took.

[DirtyDawg]

18 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

I know all about the upcharges and protocols. It sucks but it could also cost you money if you have to cancel flights and other arrangements. I personally would take a cash refund from Celebrity. This is just getting out of hand each day and the rules are getting worse than better.  I wonder if they will accept a passenger with a vaccine mixture on one of those new space launch flights that Jeff Bezos just took.

At $28 million for an 11 minute flight they better! 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, tert333 said:

I agree with you.  No one knows what will happen.  If it is true that J&J is ineffective against the Delta variant, the US will need to make some decisions, without access to fully clinical studies of double vaccinating data.

 

There are only 3 things that we can do:

1/  Put pressure on our politicians to address this issue

2/  Let the cruiselines know this is an issue that has impact on their revenue stream and encourage them to fight the cause for us

3/  Get a 3rd dose of a vaccine to be compliant.

 

i know #3 is not an option in Canada today.  You will need to leave the country to get one.

 

Here is an extract that I sent my MP yesterday.  I had a talk to him and he said the more people engage their elected resources, the greater the chance they will focus on this.   As we all believe there is an election coming up in the fall, they will be more willing to be engaged as they don't want to lose any votes.  Here is an extract that I sent yesterday.  Feel free to cut and paste into your own note to your MP.  I can assure you they will get back to you.

 

On March 13, I took the initial dose of Astrazeneca(AZ) when it was first made available to Ontario residents in the 60 to 70 age range. While at the time, I would have preferred PFizer or Moderna, the recommendation was to get a shot as soon as possible.  So I opted for Astrazeneca as it was the only one available at that time for my age group.

Once the issues with blood clotting became known, Ontario, taking the advice of NACI, started administering PFizer or Moderna as second doses to Astrazeneca.   As you know, the current preference by NACI continues to be to take an mNRA vaccine over Astrazeneca as your second dose, and first doses of AZ are not being administered anymore.

Prior to last week, the cruiselines treated an individual as vaccinated, as long as they received two approved vaccines.  Late last week, they updated their vaccine protocols to reflect further restrictions to their vaccine requirements.  For example, Celebrity Cruises(subsidiary of Royal Caribbean) changed the requirement.  Their requirement now is that mixed dose of an mRNA is fine, but a combination of AZ and Pfizer is not an approved vaccine combination.   In talking to the company, they stated they are following the guidelines as laid out by the CDC.  I have had a similar discussion with Princess Cruises as well(subsidiary of Carnival Corp.)

 

I have a cruise that is booked for the end of September, which I will need to cancel unless something can be done.   It is disappointing that the Canadian and US government would not have worked through the approved vaccination protocols before this.   Furthermore, as you know, Canada has announced the opening of the border to the US on August 9 to vaccinated US citizens.  If the US agrees to do the same only for vaccinated Canadians, I am sure that I will not be able to go to the US, as they will use the same definition CDC provided to the cruiselines.

 

This issue is creating a two tier system, where the vast majority of the population will be able to travel freely and those Canadians who has a combination of AZ and Pfizer, will be restricted.   This is completely unfair as I followed the federal government(NACI) and provincial guidelines.  I am looking to the federal government to come up with a solution immediately that will put us back on the same footing with the rest of the internationally recognized vaccinated Canadians.  

Actually it is rather unlikely that the FDA would approve a booster to J&J without the required Clinical trials proving the efficacy and safety of the booster.  Pfizer is and has been running a number of trial of their booster, but have not seen any estimates on projection.

 

 

In the US once a drug is authorized Doctors can perscribe  a drug off label. So an individual doctor could decide to perscribe a booster  using an existing authorized vaccine (but since it is off label they would face a potential law suite if it goes badly), before it has been tested.

[tert333]

Celebrity has updated their mixed vaccine policy.  Mixed Dose passengers can cruise in Europe.  This is great news!

 

Following CDC guidelines, Celebrity will consider a guest fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination that can include mixed doses of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines. Guests sailing on Celebrity Silhouette from Southampton, or Celebrity Apex sailing from Athens can have mixed doses that include AstraZeneca as long as the AstraZeneca dose is administered first, and then either the Pfizer or Moderna dose within 8-12 weeks. No other mixed vaccine doses will be accepted. 

[Fouremco]

14 minutes ago, tert333 said:

Celebrity has updated their mixed vaccine policy.  Mixed Dose passengers can cruise in Europe.  This is great news!

 

Following CDC guidelines, Celebrity will consider a guest fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination that can include mixed doses of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines. Guests sailing on Celebrity Silhouette from Southampton, or Celebrity Apex sailing from Athens can have mixed doses that include AstraZeneca as long as the AstraZeneca dose is administered first, and then either the Pfizer or Moderna dose within 8-12 weeks. No other mixed vaccine doses will be accepted. 

As you say, great news!

[MR_T]

12 minutes ago, tert333 said:

Celebrity has updated their mixed vaccine policy.  Mixed Dose passengers can cruise in Europe.  This is great news!

 

Following CDC guidelines, Celebrity will consider a guest fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination that can include mixed doses of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines. Guests sailing on Celebrity Silhouette from Southampton, or Celebrity Apex sailing from Athens can have mixed doses that include AstraZeneca as long as the AstraZeneca dose is administered first, and then either the Pfizer or Moderna dose within 8-12 weeks. No other mixed vaccine doses will be accepted. 

Thanks for the update… on a personal note it’s a step in the right direction but hopefully it’ll take another step soon… I’m booked for the October 10th Apex TA so we will be boarding in Barcelona but getting off in Florida so I guess at the moment I’ll still keep my fingers crossed for further updates 🤞🏻

[MR_T]

18 minutes ago, tert333 said:

Celebrity has updated their mixed vaccine policy.  Mixed Dose passengers can cruise in Europe.  This is great news!

 

Following CDC guidelines, Celebrity will consider a guest fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination that can include mixed doses of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines. Guests sailing on Celebrity Silhouette from Southampton, or Celebrity Apex sailing from Athens can have mixed doses that include AstraZeneca as long as the AstraZeneca dose is administered first, and then either the Pfizer or Moderna dose within 8-12 weeks. No other mixed vaccine doses will be accepted. 

Just checked and it’s not been updated on the Canadian site yet…