Where is that Captains Club tier between elite plus and zenith we were promised?

[keesar]

3 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

I don’t think LLP has anything to do with any of these.

 

Just shows how someone promises something and does not deliver.  People have short memories.  As for LLP, she admitted it was not right to cut the daily water from Aqua class. Well....     How much does it cost to deliver a couple of bottles of water even when most have beverage packages?  

[If only]

1 minute ago, keesar said:

 

Just shows how someone promises something and does not deliver.  People have short memories.  As for LLP, she admitted it was not right to cut the daily water from Aqua class. Well....     How much does it cost to deliver a couple of bottles of water even when most have beverage packages?  

Water each day is back in Aqua on both our Nov cruise & Feb cruise at least on the Millennium.

[keesar]

11 minutes ago, If only said:

Water each day is back in Aqua on both our Nov cruise & Feb cruise at least on the Millennium.

 

That is really great news.  When on Equinox, we got water the first day and  when it not show up, we relied on our beverage package.  

[Lastdance]

I am just excited to cruise again and enjoy the ship being elite + forever!  I guess my expectations on some things are not what they used to be; however, that could change.  

[DCPIV]

Armchair economics is entertaining, isn't it? 

 

Judging purely by the actions of Celebrity, RCI, and other "mass market" lines, they don't see the returns from loyalty perks that many around Cruise Critic think they do, but they do see a great deal of return from building suites. "Per passenger spend" is the key metric. 

 

Like it or not, the new loyalty program is called "The Retreat." Money talks, and it always has. This is the world. With regard to cruising, this has been the world for at least 15 years. 

 

Folks say they'll go elsewhere if they don't get what they believe they deserve from a loyalty program. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, but rarely is that decision based primarily on the loyalty program. It's because they like one product more than another. 

[Redtravel]

Captains club was attractive before All In. with ALL IN standard on X, loyalty perks aren’t much.   Compared to other cruise loyalty groups, Celebrity comes up short.  Most appreciated loyalty benefits are OBC,  significant upgrades or discounts on cruise fares, free unlimited laundry pressed returned same day on hangers, unlimited WiFi, and dinner invitation with captain.  That’s all happens on Windstar after 90 nights, not 3000 points.  

[Moby Jones]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

The priority list has not changed nor will it ever change.  Simple.  Put people in cabins at the maximum price the market will allow and get them spending on the ship.  They will thank the loyalty cruisers for spending all that money in the past.  The highest levels E, E+ and Z cost them more money for what they currently care about, which is the quarterly and annual earnings going forward.

That doesn't really disagree with or contradict my post at all. 😉 

[DCPIV]

28 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

That’s all happens on Windstar after 90 nights, not 3000 points.  

 

Windstar is a very, very different product.  That might've been part of your point, but it has virtually no bearing on the conversation.

[Redtravel]

1 hour ago, DCPIV said:

 

Windstar is a very, very different product.  That might've been part of your point, but it has virtually no bearing on the conversation.

Windstar is different. Their loyalty program is much better than Celebrity.   Loyalty programs should make guests feel appreciated. Celebrity has lost its way. 

[Turtles06]

FWIW, NCL in January added a new tier in its Latitudes Program (their loyalty club) between the highest tier, Ambassador, and what was then the next highest tier, called Platinum Plus.  (As with the Captain's Club gap between Zenith and Elite Plus, there was a huge gap between Plat Plus and Ambassador.)

 

The new NCL tier is called Diamond, and Platinum Plus was renamed to Sapphire, I guess to distinguish it better from the next tier down, which was and still is Platinum.  (Think Elite and Elite Plus.)  There is very little difference between the benefits of Sapphire and the new Diamond tier, the biggest perhaps being a one-time "free cabin upgrade."  But Diamond gets the same one free bag of laundry on a cruise and the same number of free specialty dinners that Platinum, Sapphire *and* Ambassador get.  Not a change that folks found very impressive, although those who immediately jumped to Diamond and had future bookings were justifiably happy to get a cabin upgrade on one of their cruises.  

[Redtravel]

It would be nice to get a specialty dinner as a loyalty perk.  Those discounts off photos, spa, etc. require extra money. A really nice gesture is offering something that has value and doesn’t require you to spend more money. Example is the one free scoop of gelato.  Wow…I took 20+ cruises and I got a cup of gelato.  That’s great.  

 

[markeb]

9 hours ago, DCPIV said:

Armchair economics is entertaining, isn't it? 

 

Judging purely by the actions of Celebrity, RCI, and other "mass market" lines, they don't see the returns from loyalty perks that many around Cruise Critic think they do, but they do see a great deal of return from building suites. "Per passenger spend" is the key metric. 

 

Like it or not, the new loyalty program is called "The Retreat." Money talks, and it always has. This is the world. With regard to cruising, this has been the world for at least 15 years. 

 

Folks say they'll go elsewhere if they don't get what they believe they deserve from a loyalty program. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, but rarely is that decision based primarily on the loyalty program. It's because they like one product more than another. 

 

This subject is fascinating. From Celebrity's standpoint, this isn't a "Customer Loyalty" program; it's a "Customer Retention" program. Like it or not, there are a lot of examples out there (a great one is I believe Hoover in the UK) where a company spent money acquiring or retaining a lot of customers that weren't profitable. It's usually less expensive to retain a customer, but if Celebrity can acquire customers directly into the Retreat (and AI is part of that package), and then retain whatever the industry average is or a little more, they can probably lose almost all of their Elite and Elite+ customers who aren't in suites, especially the ones who aren't buying drinks and internet. The margins have to be incredibly high. They almost certainly won't lose everyone, so I don't even think that's a real risk.

 

There are ways to calculate your financial benefit to the company, and with everything you do on board going on your shipboard account, they know pretty much everything about your per passenger spend. I don't see a benefit to another retention tier in this environment. And I'm quite sure if their data showed a benefit, there would be one.

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, Redtravel said:

It would be nice to get a specialty dinner as a loyalty perk.

 

At Diamond + (=Elite+) on RCCL you get a BOGO specialty restaurant perk.  The only "condition" is that the BO part needs to take place on night 1.  But that is often waived by the Concierge or Maitre D on board.  Still requires you to spend money, but not a bad benefit.  We typically dine mostly at the specialty restaurants anyway (on both RCCL and Celebrity) so to us with RCCL that is a nice perk.

[Moby Jones]

9 hours ago, markeb said:

 

This subject is fascinating. From Celebrity's standpoint, this isn't a "Customer Loyalty" program; it's a "Customer Retention" program.

On the last day of my last cruise we had a fairly lengthy chat about Celebrity, E class ships and the Retreat with a senior member of staff. I pointed out that I felt sorry for the Retreat hosts and manager as they all have to work from a crappy little desk, stood up for hours at a time in an environment where other passengers are sat close by and can hear every word of the conversation. 

I said I thought the desks in Michael's Club were far better for both the Retreat staff and passengers to quietly resolve any issues they may have. I also pointed out that the increased size of Luminae detracted from the restaurants more intimate ambiance on other ships. The senior personnel member (I don't want them to be identified) gave me a much appreciated and rather candied response by agreeing with all of our points and stated that they had all been fed back to  HQ. And then stated "These days it's all about the money. Retreat class is seen as a cash cow". Now we all know that don't we? But I was amazed at the brutally candid statement from this person. And I respect them a lot  for their openness and honesty! 

So yeah, I agree loyalty on Celebrity is simply a pretense. They'd far rather attract new cruisers who are yet to learn how to save money on their cruise experience. 

[Alakegirl]

A lot of years ago there was a thread on Cruise Critic (which I can no longer find) that asked for suggestions of perks that would cost little or nothing but would be appreciated by passengers. The only one I can remember now was the idea that if there are two Celebrity ships in port at the same time, a tour of the other ship might be enjoyable.  This was particularly in reference to the E class ships which were so new at the time and hardly anyone had seen yet.  It might convince someone to book a different ship, with virtually no outlay of any cost to Celebrity.. I guess that idea went nowhere because they never instituted it, but I still think there are ideas out there of experiences that would be enjoyable to even the most frequent cruisers that would cost virtually nothing.

[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Captains club was attractive before All In. with ALL IN standard on X, loyalty perks aren’t much.   Compared to other cruise loyalty groups, Celebrity comes up short.  Most appreciated loyalty benefits are OBC,  significant upgrades or discounts on cruise fares, free unlimited laundry pressed returned same day on hangers, unlimited WiFi, and dinner invitation with captain.  That’s all happens on Windstar after 90 nights, not 3000 points.  

And why sail on Celebrity if you like the benefits of Windstar? Your money, your choice.

 

So if All Included goes away, which it will at the end of the current marketing campaign, the Captains Club loyalty benefits have more value to us?  I guess I do not see how the two are linked.  Having the cruise passengers pay for the packaged benefits by buying an All Included fare somehow diminishes your Captain's Club benefits and makes the program less valuable somehow?  When I sail in suites I pay a lot for the cabin and included benefits even though I would get some as an E+ anyway.  So what?  Why do I care what other paying customers get as long as I enjoy what I am doing?

 

[DCPIV]

21 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Windstar is different. Their loyalty program is much better than Celebrity.   Loyalty programs should make guests feel appreciated. Celebrity has lost its way. 

 

There's a lot more that distinguishes the two than their loyalty programs.  Summit's capacity is roughly 150% of the entire Windstar fleet. The products are night and day. A comparison makes no sense.

 

If you want to try and make it make sense, though, here's your comparison: you can often get a Royal Suite) for what you're going to pay for a Windstar cruise. Go RS, and you pretty much get your Windstar benefits, and you'll feel appreciated. 

 

I've been cruising for 27 years, and I don't think I've given a flip about "loyalty" benefits for more than half that. I choose the product I like. Loyalty benefits are mighty nice, but they have little to do with my choice.

[DCPIV]

14 hours ago, markeb said:

I don't see a benefit to another retention tier in this environment. And I'm quite sure if their data showed a benefit, there would be one.

 

You could bet your bottom dollar on it and sleep well at night. 

 

As already mentioned, though, there are intermediate benefits along the way between E+ and Zenith. There's just no change on what they print on the card you get when you board. A lot of this is semantic, as it seems many just want a different color ribbon to pin to their chest. 

[DCPIV]

@markeb, I'll also add that Celebrity and other lines are wise to benefits creep. Adding a new benefit might keep folks happy for a little while, but it'll just be a little while. Another thread like this will pop up in what will seem like no time at all. 

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, DCPIV said:

@markeb, I'll also add that Celebrity and other lines are wise to benefits creep. Adding a new benefit might keep folks happy for a little while, but it'll just be a little while. Another thread like this will pop up in what will seem like no time at all. 

I would bet that if Celebrity adds a new benefit, some here will object to that too.

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I would bet that if Celebrity adds a new benefit, some here will object to that too.

Surely you jest!

[TeaBag]

I have always thought that when Captains Club was designed, the thresholds for the different lower tiers were set too close together.  Too easy to get to Elite, or Elite + and then you sit.  We will never reach Zenith even though we are nearly 2/3 of the way there.  That's now partly because we are looking elsewhere and partly because of AI.  Sad, because there was a time when you couldn't shut me up about how great Celebrity was.

Edited March 20, 2022 by TeaBag

[jagoffee]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

And why sail on Celebrity if you like the benefits of Windstar? Your money, your choice.

 

So if All Included goes away, which it will at the end of the current marketing campaign, the Captains Club loyalty benefits have more value to us?  I guess I do not see how the two are linked.  Having the cruise passengers pay for the packaged benefits by buying an All Included fare somehow diminishes your Captain's Club benefits and makes the program less valuable somehow?  When I sail in suites I pay a lot for the cabin and included benefits even though I would get some as an E+ anyway.  So what?  Why do I care what other paying customers get as long as I enjoy what I am doing?

 

All Included is a long way from Always Included, but I suspect you know that already.  Different cruise lines make the distinction at different points.

 

Although I enjoyed a Regent cruise in January 2020, I did not value all that was included in their base fares.  Many people do.

 

I did enjoy a Celebrity Galapagos Island cruise that included everything, but the Air.  I did value those inclusions.on my first experience with an All inclusive type cruise.

 

Many of us, but obviously not all of us value the line drawn/simplicity with Always Included.  
 

I agree with a lot of your points.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeremiah1212]

9 hours ago, Moby Jones said:

On the last day of my last cruise we had a fairly lengthy chat about Celebrity, E class ships and the Retreat with a senior member of staff. I pointed out that I felt sorry for the Retreat hosts and manager as they all have to work from a crappy little desk, stood up for hours at a time in an environment where other passengers are sat close by and can hear every word of the conversation. 

I said I thought the desks in Michael's Club were far better for both the Retreat staff and passengers to quietly resolve any issues they may have. I also pointed out that the increased size of Luminae detracted from the restaurants more intimate ambiance on other ships. The senior personnel member (I don't want them to be identified) gave me a much appreciated and rather candied response by agreeing with all of our points and stated that they had all been fed back to  HQ. And then stated "These days it's all about the money. Retreat class is seen as a cash cow". Now we all know that don't we? But I was amazed at the brutally candid statement from this person. And I respect them a lot  for their openness and honesty! 

So yeah, I agree loyalty on Celebrity is simply a pretense. They'd far rather attract new cruisers who are yet to learn how to save money on their cruise experience. 

 

This encounter may have made you feel heard, but these are empty conversations. The 'senior staffer' isn't going to be disagreeable when you are raising complaints, particuarly about things they have absolutely no control over. 99.99% of the time they are going to nod their head, agree or follow up with a non-response to get you on your way. It's what they are trained to do.