How much are you willing to let slide?

[CineGraphic]

11 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the FCC from Covid cancellations expire at the end of this year?

 

Yes, 12/31/22, and I've read a few accounts of folks requesting an extension for sailings in January/Feb 2023, and they have been denied.

No extensions.

[PacnGoNow]

42 minutes ago, 1980dory said:

And do you still believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy, etc.?  I do believe you really ARE dreaming.

Yes, I do!  Lol

Do you really think Celebrity and other lines are not having problems?

I have friends and family who have sailed Celebrity and RCCL and they are struggling too.

They all are and so are the airlines, the hospitality sector, etc. 

From the beginning of the restart, experts have said it will take up to 5 years to get back to precovid experiences.  Let’s hope.

 

 

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

With all these people leaving Princess, it looks like the ships will be sailing near empty very shortly.

🙄

We were once on a HAL ship. I joined the roll call that had just the poster that had started the roll call. No one else ever joined. He joked that as the only ones aboard both our parties would be upgraded to suites. I joked back that they would probably cancel the cruise with only 4 passengers. And of course neither happened.

[Steelers36]

I have read most/all of this thread and I have also mulled over in my mind what I think and taking into account others live reports from various ships. 

 

I do have some concerns for this Fall being on four voyages for a total of 39 days.  But, we do have sunk funds in Bank of Princess and these voyages are making up for past cancellations.  We want to make the trip and hope to have a great time.

 

I feel like I know what challenges we may be in for on board.  Hopefully, things will improve some by October for us.

 

But, where I am in my head is that after these voyages, we step back and take a pause from cruising, not ready to run off to another line right away.  Just stay away, but keep an eye and ear on how things go in 2023.  We have other things we want to do anyway which involve land trips, so it's not a bad time to step away.  Sure, I will buy some FCD's anyway since I get them back, but will be there in a couple of years if we decide to dip our toes in the ocean again.  (I can always ask for an extension as well). 

 

Stepping away from cruising won't stop me from advocating for Princess to fix their issues and deliver on promises. 

[nini]

25 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

I have read most/all of this thread and I have also mulled over in my mind what I think and taking into account others live reports from various ships. 

 

I do have some concerns for this Fall being on four voyages for a total of 39 days.  But, we do have sunk funds in Bank of Princess and these voyages are making up for past cancellations.  We want to make the trip and hope to have a great time.

 

I feel like I know what challenges we may be in for on board.  Hopefully, things will improve some by October for us.

 

But, where I am in my head is that after these voyages, we step back and take a pause from cruising, not ready to run off to another line right away.  Just stay away, but keep an eye and ear on how things go in 2023.  We have other things we want to do anyway which involve land trips, so it's not a bad time to step away.  Sure, I will buy some FCD's anyway since I get them back, but will be there in a couple of years if we decide to dip our toes in the ocean again.  (I can always ask for an extension as well). 

 

Stepping away from cruising won't stop me from advocating for Princess to fix their issues and deliver on promises. 

 

Very well said. We have been considering the same as well.

We have a few cruises booked through next year, but we are re-considering. We will board the Grand in September for a "unique to us" Alaska itinerary. We are curious to see how we feel about the Grand as we just got off the Emerald in May and can do some comparisons. We are to board the Grand next year for a very long Trans Pacific and we will determine if that is something with which we would like to follow through.

[dog]

3 hours ago, mtnesterz said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the FCC from Covid cancellations expire at the end of this year?

Whenever that happens the truth will come out about bookings.

The chickens came home to roost.  You can't leave ships unmaintained for two years.

My FCC S were extended from Dec30/22 sail by to September 30/23, under Covid cancellation.

[insidecabin]

Who is paying top whack for cruises?

 

Since the return last year booking anything more than a couple of week out was a gamble on what you will get, rules, capacity testing, one cruise last year we had 2 testing changes while on board and the disembark county changed rules the day we got off. 

 

We have been seeing very competitive rates in the UK, cheaper than pre covid and the princess Plus(£30) has been a bargain, now £40 still decent on top of a low fare.

 

When Enchanted moved balconies with P+ were $125pppd that's not top prices.

 

There are still decent rates out there.

If they reflect current offerings that's an individual judgment.

[mthomp5]

8 minutes ago, dog said:

My FCC S were extended from Dec30/22 sail by to September 30/23, under Covid cancellation.

This is encouraging.  Could you clarify…do you mean that you canceled a cruise because you or a traveling partner caught COVID?  And did you have to have another cruise booked in order to get the FCC extension to sail by 9/30/2023?

[Steelers36]

39 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

Who is paying top whack for cruises?

 

I do not believe I have ever paid "top whack" on Princess.

[insidecabin]

3 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

I do not believe I have ever paid "top whack" on Princess.

The prices I was seeing early this year through the summer were lower than the late booking rates  in the couple of years before covid.

[cruzin4us]

I will take a lot of things and be relatively content as long as I'm not paying for the cruise out of pocket.   Princess has been sending me casino offers which includes the Princess Plus along with some free play so I will put up with quite a bit.

When they stop letting me cruise for free, and I'm paying for my cruises I will tolerate a lot less.    Examples:  Poor Internet, 1/2 the Specialty Dinings closed (or every other day), International Coffee not open 24 hours, nightly turn down service, some rust......just to name a few.     As long as the cruise is free, I'm ok with putting up with these things.

 

I'm not ok paying to get into Disneyland just to find out The Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Pirates of the CB and Indiana Jones are all shut down.....same goes for any Cruise Ship on any Line.

[suzyed]

6 hours ago, mtnesterz said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the FCC from Covid cancellations expire at the end of this year?

Whenever that happens the truth will come out about bookings.

The chickens came home to roost.  You can't leave ships unmaintained for two years.

Right, our Covid FCCs expire 12/31/22.  I have some FCC from "cancel with confidence" that expired in February which is a year from I cancelled.  We'll use them for our NYE cruise.

 

[suzyed]

On 6/19/2022 at 8:59 PM, Steelers36 said:

We were fine with Crown in the past.  I'd rather be on KP/EP/RU/CB in Caribbean because the Sanctuary is way better than Royal Class due to more shade.

We've been on the Crown 4 times and loved it!  Our upcoming Crown sailing is not going to compare favorably to the previous sailings.

[suzyed]

3 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

I do not believe I have ever paid "top whack" on Princess.

Not heard that term before but I gather what the meaning is....
So, yes, we are paying "top whack" on the "top Wreck"

[loge23]

CineGraphic has been around the (block) ocean a few times and states that his/her favorite cruise line is Princess. Clearly, it is a valid and reasonable opinion and poses an similarly reasonable question. Just how much one will let slide depends on how one perceives value.  

 

What CineGraphic is clearly pointing out, imo, is a competitive issue. In a very crowded industry, Princess has heretofore always been able to effectively differentiate themselves. It's their "secret sauce", this differentiation - and it included many little things as well as the big ones. It's why we keep coming back, the expectations - it's familiar and comfortable: the decor appeals to us, the staff is welcoming, the food may not be Michelin quality but it's always been good; but when the formula changes, the value preposition changes as well.  The brand means something, represents something - and that something is value. 

 

Some of the changes we have experienced since the re-boot have been directly linked to the global supply crisis and COVID. While that's somewhat forgivable and understandable, it does change that value preposition and it becomes a competitive - and cost - issue. I should add that we've taken two cruises since the reboot - one, on Brand X, wowed us, but we were in their Retreat Class; and the other, on the Enchanted Princess, was OK, but certainly not what we were used to - and we're Princess regulars. We're booked for an October/November long TA cruise on the Regal and one after that, so we'll see.

 

CinGraphic wouldn't have bothered to post this if he/she didn't care about their favorite cruise line. They are simply pointing out that along with the fish, there's plenty of competition out there on the high seas. We've noticed. While it's cavalier to suggest we "move on" to "another line", many will if the Princess we know and love becomes something other than what drew us in and brings us back to begin with. That IS important, and we DO care. Care enough to hold FCC's, bookings, and bother to check in and opine here, and enough to allocate considerable sums for our vacation plans.

 

The alleged fact that the complaints have never been this plentiful is telling. Both on this site and others, reviews have been lukewarm. Maybe it's time for Carnival to wake up and realize what business they're still in, and to effectively differentiate their brands. Sending out disabled cruise ships - and eliminating little expectations -  is really not a good strategy in that regard. Yes, it's a tough environment, but their competition is not backing down. How much ARE we willing to let slide?

 

I have to think that all this mega-ship building may be at a point where it's exceeding demand. Alternatively, it may be kind of a perfect storm that is rolling in on the cruise industry: changing demographics as us Boomers age out, supply chain chaos, a pandemic, Russian aggression, and now rapidly rising global inflation foreshadowing a possible (probably?) recession. Both Venice and now Barcelona are actively working on limiting the number and size of ships - other ports may soon follow. So head winds are blowing in the industry just as the ships are resuming their operations - it's not a good time for stakeholders; but as long as they're offering berths, they have to perform - and that's just the business they're in after all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[srpilo]

6 minutes ago, loge23 said:

CineGraphic has been around the (block) ocean a few times and states that his/her favorite cruise line is Princess. Clearly, it is a valid and reasonable opinion and poses an similarly reasonable question. Just how much one will let slide depends on how one perceives value.  

 

What CineGraphic is clearly pointing out, imo, is a competitive issue. In a very crowded industry, Princess has heretofore always been able to effectively differentiate themselves. It's their "secret sauce", this differentiation - and it included many little things as well as the big ones. It's why we keep coming back, the expectations - it's familiar and comfortable: the decor appeals to us, the staff is welcoming, the food may not be Michelin quality but it's always been good; but when the formula changes, the value preposition changes as well.  The brand means something, represents something - and that something is value. 

 

Some of the changes we have experienced since the re-boot have been directly linked to the global supply crisis and COVID. While that's somewhat forgivable and understandable, it does change that value preposition and it becomes a competitive - and cost - issue. I should add that we've taken two cruises since the reboot - one, on Brand X, wowed us, but we were in their Retreat Class; and the other, on the Enchanted Princess, was OK, but certainly not what we were used to - and we're Princess regulars. We're booked for an October/November long TA cruise on the Regal and one after that, so we'll see.

 

CinGraphic wouldn't have bothered to post this if he/she didn't care about their favorite cruise line. They are simply pointing out that along with the fish, there's plenty of competition out there on the high seas. We've noticed. While it's cavalier to suggest we "move on" to "another line", many will if the Princess we know and love becomes something other than what drew us in and brings us back to begin with. That IS important, and we DO care. Care enough to hold FCC's, bookings, and bother to check in and opine here, and enough to allocate considerable sums for our vacation plans.

 

The alleged fact that the complaints have never been this plentiful is telling. Both on this site and others, reviews have been lukewarm. Maybe it's time for Carnival to wake up and realize what business they're still in, and to effectively differentiate their brands. Sending out disabled cruise ships - and eliminating little expectations -  is really not a good strategy in that regard. Yes, it's a tough environment, but their competition is not backing down. How much ARE we willing to let slide?

 

I have to think that all this mega-ship building may be at a point where it's exceeding demand. Alternatively, it may be kind of a perfect storm that is rolling in on the cruise industry: changing demographics as us Boomers age out, supply chain chaos, a pandemic, Russian aggression, and now rapidly rising global inflation foreshadowing a possible (probably?) recession. Both Venice and now Barcelona are actively working on limiting the number and size of ships - other ports may soon follow. So head winds are blowing in the industry just as the ships are resuming their operations - it's not a good time for stakeholders; but as long as they're offering berths, they have to perform - and that's just the business they're in after all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1   

 

[milogurd]

1 hour ago, suzyed said:

Not heard that term before but I gather what the meaning is....
So, yes, we are paying "top whack" on the "top Wreck"

Definition of top whack

 

British,  informal 

: the highest amount possible. I paid top whack for these items.

Edited June 23, 2022 by milogurd

[suzyed]

1 hour ago, suzyed said:

Not heard that term before but I gather what the meaning is....
So, yes, we are paying "top whack" on the "top Wreck"

We have enjoyed Princess immensely all these years and I wouldn't have even thought about "moving on" if it were not for the debacle that is going on now with the Crown.
Chocolates on the pillow...turn down service....wearing masks in public places....etc. etc. none of those is a reason to sail on Princess or not sail.   Sign of the times post covid and we have to expect some changes. I'm sure all the lines are going through all these changes.  But I will not put up with selling me a bill of goods for " top of the wrack" and equal to other ships and not be delivered those goods.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by suzyed

[nini]

29 minutes ago, loge23 said:

CineGraphic has been around the (block) ocean a few times and states that his/her favorite cruise line is Princess. Clearly, it is a valid and reasonable opinion and poses an similarly reasonable question. Just how much one will let slide depends on how one perceives value.  

 

What CineGraphic is clearly pointing out, imo, is a competitive issue. In a very crowded industry, Princess has heretofore always been able to effectively differentiate themselves. It's their "secret sauce", this differentiation - and it included many little things as well as the big ones. It's why we keep coming back, the expectations - it's familiar and comfortable: the decor appeals to us, the staff is welcoming, the food may not be Michelin quality but it's always been good; but when the formula changes, the value preposition changes as well.  The brand means something, represents something - and that something is value. 

 

Some of the changes we have experienced since the re-boot have been directly linked to the global supply crisis and COVID. While that's somewhat forgivable and understandable, it does change that value preposition and it becomes a competitive - and cost - issue. I should add that we've taken two cruises since the reboot - one, on Brand X, wowed us, but we were in their Retreat Class; and the other, on the Enchanted Princess, was OK, but certainly not what we were used to - and we're Princess regulars. We're booked for an October/November long TA cruise on the Regal and one after that, so we'll see.

 

CinGraphic wouldn't have bothered to post this if he/she didn't care about their favorite cruise line. They are simply pointing out that along with the fish, there's plenty of competition out there on the high seas. We've noticed. While it's cavalier to suggest we "move on" to "another line", many will if the Princess we know and love becomes something other than what drew us in and brings us back to begin with. That IS important, and we DO care. Care enough to hold FCC's, bookings, and bother to check in and opine here, and enough to allocate considerable sums for our vacation plans.

 

The alleged fact that the complaints have never been this plentiful is telling. Both on this site and others, reviews have been lukewarm. Maybe it's time for Carnival to wake up and realize what business they're still in, and to effectively differentiate their brands. Sending out disabled cruise ships - and eliminating little expectations -  is really not a good strategy in that regard. Yes, it's a tough environment, but their competition is not backing down. How much ARE we willing to let slide?

 

I have to think that all this mega-ship building may be at a point where it's exceeding demand. Alternatively, it may be kind of a perfect storm that is rolling in on the cruise industry: changing demographics as us Boomers age out, supply chain chaos, a pandemic, Russian aggression, and now rapidly rising global inflation foreshadowing a possible (probably?) recession. Both Venice and now Barcelona are actively working on limiting the number and size of ships - other ports may soon follow. So head winds are blowing in the industry just as the ships are resuming their operations - it's not a good time for stakeholders; but as long as they're offering berths, they have to perform - and that's just the business they're in after all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2

[geoherb]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:53 AM, rabin1 said:

This addresses the marketing Princess is doing. I own an advertising agency. The one thing that could be done is IF someone wanted to find a lawyer is file a class action suit for false advertising.

 

One of the things people agree to in the passage contract is to waive the ability to join a class action lawsuit. Each lawsuit, or arbitration, has to be undertaken individually.

[Guest ldtr]

Cruise lines are like airlines.  More alike than different.  They are pretty much interchangeable.  One may have preferences, but it really comes down to value for your travel dollar.

 

Pre-Covid the cruise lines themselves have been happily building more and larger ships.  As long as more passengers are willing to book they have happily been more ships into the same ports.  To the degree that for many places the experience that made them attractive places to visit has been washed away by the flood of every increasing passengers.

 

It may be better for the industry if there is a reset in the industry and the number and size of ships returns to something that is more sustainable for the industry long term.

[Thrak]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:19 AM, CineGraphic said:

 

Princess could easily reduce capacity to make things more manageable for what crew they do have, but the powers that be have decided fuller ships is the answer to their problems.

 

When a "marketing professional" is in charge what do you expect?

[caribill]

5 hours ago, loge23 said:

 

What CineGraphic is clearly pointing out, imo, is a competitive issue. In a very crowded industry, Princess has heretofore always been able to effectively differentiate themselves. It's their "secret sauce", this differentiation - and it included many little things as well as the big ones.

 

And Princess has been doing its best to eliminate the differences and make the cruise line no longer significantly different than its competition.

 

o Bigger and bigger ships that can only go to overcrowded ports that can handle ships like the Displacement of The Seas.

 

o Getting rid of the smaller ships which also meant no longer having the unique itineraries they could go to many smaller ports in the world.

 

o No longer allowing shore excursions booked pre-cruise to be paid for after taking the excursions.

 

o Elimination of on board items such as the Log of the Cruise at the end of the cruise, port guides, nightly chocolates on your bed, etc.

 

Of course there are ways that Princess has managed to differentiate themselves recently:

 

o A pre-cruise App that requires hours of frustrating effort to save 10 minutes at cruise terminal check-in. (Of course this is only if you have a relatively recent smart phone/tablet that the App is designed for.)

 

o Dining My Way which "fixed" something that was not broken.

 

o On-board Internet that performs worse than dial-up used to.

 

So if you are going to take a cruise on a behemoth ship to St. Thomas, St. Maarten and a private island, why would any particular cruise line be your first choice.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

 

When a "marketing professional" is in charge what do you expect?

 

Like their upcoming six day special sale over a holiday weekend when most TAs are closed for three of those six days and Princess itself is closed for two of them.

[JeffroK]

I was bored so has a read through the thread, apart from the problems with the Crown Princess and Customer Relations failures there seems to be a lot of 1st World problems.

People who have had 10's of cruises seem to have the expectation that nothing changes, even without Covid the world keeps moving.

Suggestions that Princess/CCL are behaving like a Corporation and out to maximize profit seems to be complaining about the reason for their existence, not to run at part capacity and make a loss on each cruise. Imagine what they have lost over the last 3 years, and what hurdles they have jumped to get ships back in the water so that people like us can restart cruising.

 

I dont want bad service, or cancellations but being close to 3 years since a holiday I can understand that not everything is back to pre-Covid standards

Edited June 23, 2022 by JeffroK
Cant speel.