Can a ship keep you on board until you pay the bill?

[AmazedByCruising]

There's another thread where someone was told they couldn't leave the ship without paying the bills first. 

 

For simplicity let's assume they simply didn't pay for their visit to the Spa, the credit card reached its limit, and they got to call their bank for free to resolve the issue. And the bank said no. And now the ship, registered in Bermuda, is back in Miami. And the ship says: you cannot leave. Give money first.

 

IANAL, but can a hotel simply hold you if you don't pay? Or even say that they will? Under any law (US, UK, Bermuda)? Even when you know they'll release you before the new guests arrive anyway, just threatening to not let you leave the ship seems highly illegal to me. 

 

(I could go into a bit more detail, this being a medical emergency and the fact that it wasn't even their bill, and the credit card on file had plenty credit, but all those facts only make it even worse).

 

 

[Schoifmom]

I know that on Carnival, they will allow you to leave, but only after you sign a promissory note.

[Aquahound]

In the United States, a cruise ship cannot legally hold you on board for this purpose; at least not under their own authority. You can be stalled for a reasonable amount of time until law enforcement arrives but otherwise, they do not have the authority to hold you. If they choose to not involve law enforcement with a theft allegation, it remains a civil matter. 

[chengkp75]

Just now, Aquahound said:

In the United States, a cruise ship cannot legally hold you on board for this purpose; at least not under their own authority. You can be stalled for a reasonable amount of time until law enforcement arrives but otherwise, they do not have the authority to hold you. If they choose to not involve law enforcement with a theft allegation, it remains a civil matter. 

However, they can invoke an "innkeeper's lien" and seize the customer's baggage and hold it until the bill is paid.  As Paul notes, this is considered theft, and if they wish to pursue criminal charges, then they need to notify local law enforcement.  Otherwise, it is a civil debt, and you cannot be detained for a civil debt.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

 

(I could go into a bit more detail, this being a medical emergency and the fact that it wasn't even their bill, and the credit card on file had plenty credit, but all those facts only make it even worse).

 

 

Just to add to your facts, it was in Italy and by Princess.

 

Also, they did manage to bully her into paying her aunt's medical bill, but on the advice of fellow cruisecritic members she challenged the charge with her credit card company and had it reversed.

 

It is a sad, but fascinating story. Here is the url for the discussion.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ontheweb
added last paragraph including the link

[AmazedByCruising]

Thank you, I suspected you cannot hold someone (besides while waiting for the police to arrive). 

 

I feel it's justified to request a signature on a promissory note, where if you don't sign you get told the police is on its way, please sit there next to the man from security. Once "free" you can call the insurance company, the lawyer, your TA, the credit card company, a good friend, consumer protection. Just sort things out from the comfort of your own home, not while standing at guest relations, anxious to get of the ship as soon as possible.  

 

But in this case the guest was told they'd keep her on board unless she paid right now. The only reason to say the guest can't leave is that the ship thinks they can make the guest believe they will keep her on board. Otherwise it would be a very bad joke. 

 

Even if there is no intention to actually have security grab you when you make a run for the gangway, I believe you also cannot say you would, in order to "persuade" someone to pay now. IANAL but I don't usually threaten to lock up non-paying clients when they visit the bathroom, and if I would I think I would find myself in jail. 

 

Thanks @ontheweb for adding the details of this particular case which adds background, but I wanted to remove all the extra failures to focus on "you can't get of". Hence the theoretical case of "an unpaid visit to the Spa and the guest can't pay". But I do hope the experts in this thread will add their insights to the other thread as well. 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by AmazedByCruising

[mom says]

I've read that other thread,  OP, and while not for a minute doubting the veracity of that poster,  I will just remind you that you are only seeing one side of that situation.  It is quite possible that in the stress, anxiety, and chaos of the aunt's  illness and evacuation, some things may have been poorly explained, or were misunderstood by the poster. Just sayin'...

[Aquahound]

I went to the Princess boards and found 2 current threads of folks suggesting they weren’t going to be allowed off. The first was a PVSA issue and the second was this referenced thread. 
 

As mentioned  by mom above, it is a one-sided account and I’m not sure Princess actually tried to hold her. She stood there on her own accord debating with them over the charge. That said, it sounds like Princess could have been better in the customer service department. 

[AmazedByCruising]

 

13 minutes ago, mom says said:

I've read that other thread,  OP, and while not for a minute doubting the veracity of that poster,  I will just remind you that you are only seeing one side of that situation.  It is quite possible that in the stress, anxiety, and chaos of the aunt's  illness and evacuation, some things may have been poorly explained, or were misunderstood by the poster. Just sayin'...

 

Well these lines were written when the chaos was over and the poster decided to explain the events on CC. 

 

"I was informed I had to pay the latter or I would not be able to leave the ship." and "I was however told I could not leave at this point as the bill was being discussed at higher levels and the case still needed finding.  I did as instructed and sat down." 

 

 

 

I tend to believe her. Also because these are serious allegations. 

Let's not redo the other thread.

 

19 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

I went to the Princess boards and found 2 current threads of folks suggesting they weren’t going to be allowed off. The first was a PVSA issue and the second was this referenced thread. 
 

As mentioned  by mom above, it is a one-sided account and I’m not sure Princess actually tried to hold her. She stood there on her own accord debating with them over the charge. That said, it sounds like Princess could have been better in the customer service department. 

 

 

A PVSA issue in Italy is very unlikely. Also hard to believe an Italian cabotage law had anything to do with it because it's really hard to not visit a non-Italian port, and even if they just went from Genova to Rome, necessity knows no law. 

 

I agree that Princess probably wouldn't actually try to hold her. But they said they would. That threat was serious enough to make her pay a huge sum for someone else's bill to regain freedom, so she took it for real. She had to choose between paying money she didn't even owe, or be locked up!

 

Isn't it obvious that that's absurd and if such events happened in a land based hotel the owner would have to show up in court? 

[Aquahound]

4 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

A PVSA issue in Italy is very unlikely. Also hard to believe an Italian cabotage law had anything to do with it because it's really hard to not visit a non-Italian port, and even if they just went from Genova to Rome, necessity knows no law. 

 

I agree that Princess probably wouldn't actually try to hold her. But they said they would. That threat was serious enough to make her pay a huge sum for someone else's bill to regain freedom, so she took it for real. She had to choose between paying money she didn't even owe, or be locked up!

 

Isn't it obvious that that's absurd and if such events happened in a land based hotel the owner would have to show up in court? 

You misunderstood. The PVSA thread was a guy in Alaska. What I was saying is, I found 2 threads referring to passengers being told they couldn’t debark. 

[pris993]

I guess it is time to read the passenger contract.   LOL

[ldubs]

I don't know the answer. Seems to me it is easy to say someone can't leave.  But to physically restrain them, at least in a US port, would seem kind of unlikely.  

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I don't know the answer. Seems to me it is easy to say someone can't leave.  But to physically restrain them, at least in a US port, would seem kind of unlikely.  

It seems extremely unlikely.

[Essiesmom]

If they told me I couldn’t leave, I would be asking what cabin will I be having for the next cruise?  EM

[rrraydon]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Just to add to your facts, it was in Italy and by Princess.

 

Also, they did manage to bully her into paying her aunt's medical bill, but on the advice of fellow cruisecritic members she challenged the charge with her credit card company and had it reversed.

 

It is a sad, but fascinating story. Here is the url for the discussion.

 

Yes, it was a very sad story. I did learn a bit from it. I've cruised numerous times and have never felt the need to purchase insurance. One of my cruise buddies never cruises without it. I guess my thought process is, I have medical insurance. 

She and I cruise in September and she text me the other day with her insurance quote and asked if I wanted to purchase also and as usual I replied no. I'll be texting her tomorrow to remedy that.

 

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

Thank you, I suspected you cannot hold someone (besides while waiting for the police to arr

 

Thanks @ontheweb for adding the details of this particular case which adds background, but I wanted to remove all the extra failures to focus on "you can't get of". Hence the theoretical case of "an unpaid visit to the Spa and the guest can't pay". But I do hope the experts in this thread will add their insights to the other thread as well. 

 

I realize that you want to ask a general question, but since you referred to that specific case, I thought both some, possibly many had not read it in another forum and it was interesting including all the comments, plus it gave some more context to your question.

[rkacruiser]

17 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

If they told me I couldn’t leave, I would be asking what cabin will I be having for the next cruise?  EM

 

Or what would be my rowing position?  😁

[Ferry_Watcher]

As someone who has checked-in passengers, I know some cruise lines will have a 'hard stop' for some passengers who still owe money - either for their current cruise, or a debt still remaining from a pass cruise.  Passengers are directed to the Pier Coordinator who will asked them  to sign off that they acknowledge that they have been informed, and that the money owed will be added to their onboard account.

 

Presumably, if they don't sign, they would not be allowed to board - the ship will make that decision.  Shore side staff don't have any specific information as to why  money is owed, other than how much.  Passengers are directed to inquirer at Guest Services once on board.

[Essiesmom]

16 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Or what would be my rowing position?  😁

That would not concern me, as I would be expecting an inside cabin, and oars are on,y supplied in outside cabins.  EM

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

As someone who has checked-in passengers, I know some cruise lines will have a 'hard stop' for some passengers who still owe money - either for their current cruise, or a debt still remaining from a pass cruise.  Passengers are directed to the Pier Coordinator who will asked them  to sign off that they acknowledge that they have been informed, and that the money owed will be added to their onboard account.

 

Presumably, if they don't sign, they would not be allowed to board - the ship will make that decision.  Shore side staff don't have any specific information as to why  money is owed, other than how much.  Passengers are directed to inquirer at Guest Services once on board.

Interesting, but not allowing someone to board is an entirely different issue than not letting someone disembark. 

 

The passenger whose plight inspired this thread was being threatened to not being able to leave if she did not pay her aunt's onboard medical bill, a bill that she was in no way responsible for.

[chengkp75]

50 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Interesting, but not allowing someone to board is an entirely different issue than not letting someone disembark. 

 

The passenger whose plight inspired this thread was being threatened to not being able to leave if she did not pay her aunt's onboard medical bill, a bill that she was in no way responsible for.

Yes, the refusal to allow boarding is an example of an innkeeper's right to refuse accommodation to someone who owes them a debt.  Detaining you onboard from disembarking is illegal (though some countries allow hospitals to detain (hospital imprisonment) non-paying patients.  But, as I say, under US law, the innkeeper has the right to lien and seize all baggage the person has.

[ontheweb]

20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, the refusal to allow boarding is an example of an innkeeper's right to refuse accommodation to someone who owes them a debt.  Detaining you onboard from disembarking is illegal (though some countries allow hospitals to detain (hospital imprisonment) non-paying patients.  But, as I say, under US law, the innkeeper has the right to lien and seize all baggage the person has.

But included in her story was the fact that they could not find her bags. 🤦‍♂️

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But included in her story was the fact that they could not find her bags. 🤦‍♂️

Or so they said.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Or so they said.

Not too cynical?

[AmazedByCruising]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

But, as I say, under US law, the innkeeper has the right to lien and seize all baggage the person has.

 

All my baggage would be worth 10 dollars of sold at a second  hand market? The suitcase itself 5?  I don't think that ships make use of that law. And the ship is flagged in Bermuda, it's not POA.

 

I  think everyone agrees: No, a ship can not detain you over a bill. If the purser says they can they are lying. 

 

 

There's a huge difference between "we'll sue you to hell so you will pay" and "we simply lock you up until you pay". In my, humble and not backed by studying law opinion, even saying that someone cannot disembark the ship for not paying a bill feels very illegal. Threatening to lock you up cannot possibly be legal. I don't think the employees at Guest Relations got creative, this must have come from higher up where there's a legal department thinking they can get away with this. This is the first time I think a well known ambulance chaser can make things better.